After Market Warranty

[svtfocus2cobra]

I'll give you an example of one of the worst denials I have encountered with a warranty company that I can remember, and I'm just stating this as an example of how the companies can nit-pick and get you on the fine print so always read the exemptions on the agreement if you get one and take it as literal as you can imagine.

Customer had a used 2015 Durango he bought from a Dodge dealer. Within 6mo he is having A/C problems in a persistent leak and the vehicle has 1234 refrigerant so really expensive to fill. First time we tested we found a confirmed leak in the upper left of the condenser, which if I remember correctly, was a common problem on those MY Durango. Customer came back I think 2 times after that and we are fixing what we believe is the problem and then refilling the refrigerant under warranty each time. Finally it comes back again and after a week of having the car we finally confirm that there is a tiny leak near the back right rear of the car in the auxiliary A/C lines which book time claims 9hrs but once fully evaluated we settled at 13hrs since the rear crossmember and trans have to be dropped to get the lines out, and 9hrs just wasn't going to cover that. So all of that time for a $120 A/C line? The customer has an extended warranty and so I run it through them and they deny the claim stating their exemptions which I read over and it says they don't cover any lines or hoses. I felt bad for the customer with this ordeal because the customer was probably the nicest guy I ever dealt with and totally understanding of the situation so I argued with them about it. I explained that an AC line is not like other lines and hoses in a vehicle, and basically that a large portion of the system is comprised of AC lines so if you state you cover A/C systems then you should cover the lines, and I personally believe the A/C lines should be covered because they are supposed to be durable and handle corrosion and road debris, etc but they often don't. I knew it was a lost cause after they denied the claim but I had to try for an exemption, and at the customer's request I even tried to get the dealer to cover it under goodwill which they ran up the chain and I got a denial from them of course also. So in the end the customer ended up throwing down over $2500 to have the line replaced.

That car took so long to diagnose and find that problem that we had to finally just evac the system and fill it with 134 refrigerant with the dye to find the leak because the dye in the 1234 was not showing up well enough and at about $500 per fill my boss was tired of losing money on it. I think we had the car for a total of 2 weeks trying to find that leak and then had it for another week doing the repair.

 

[me32]

I'll give you an example of one of the worst denials I have encountered with a warranty company that I can remember, and I'm just stating this as an example of how the companies can nit-pick and get you on the fine print so always read the exemptions on the agreement if you get one and take it as literal as you can imagine.

Customer had a used 2015 Durango he bought from a Dodge dealer. Within 6mo he is having A/C problems in a persistent leak and the vehicle has 1234 refrigerant so really expensive to fill. First time we tested we found a confirmed leak in the upper left of the condenser, which if I remember correctly, was a common problem on those MY Durango. Customer came back I think 2 times after that and we are fixing what we believe is the problem and then refilling the refrigerant under warranty each time. Finally it comes back again and after a week of having the car we finally confirm that there is a tiny leak near the back right rear of the car in the auxiliary A/C lines which book time claims 9hrs but once fully evaluated we settled at 13hrs since the rear crossmember and trans have to be dropped to get the lines out, and 9hrs just wasn't going to cover that. So all of that time for a $120 A/C line? The customer has an extended warranty and so I run it through them and they deny the claim stating their exemptions which I read over and it says they don't cover any lines or hoses. I felt bad for the customer with this ordeal because the customer was probably the nicest guy I ever dealt with and totally understanding of the situation so I argued with them about it. I explained that an AC line is not like other lines and hoses in a vehicle, and basically that a large portion of the system is comprised of AC lines so if you state you cover A/C systems then you should cover the lines, and I personally believe the A/C lines should be covered because they are supposed to be durable and handle corrosion and road debris, etc but they often don't. I knew it was a lost cause after they denied the claim but I had to try for an exemption, and at the customer's request I even tried to get the dealer to cover it under goodwill which they ran up the chain and I got a denial from them of course also. So in the end the customer ended up throwing down over $2500 to have the line replaced.

That car took so long to diagnose and find that problem that we had to finally just evac the system and fill it with 134 refrigerant with the dye to find the leak because the dye in the 1234 was not showing up well enough and at about $500 per fill my boss was tired of losing money on it. I think we had the car for a total of 2 weeks trying to find that leak and then had it for another week doing the repair.

That sucks big time. For $2500 i may have just traded that in on something else. That or possibly delt with no AC.

 

[svtfocus2cobra]

That sucks big time. For $2500 i may have just traded that in on something else. That or possibly delt with no AC.

It was the guy's wife's car and apparently she loved it so I'm sure he was getting all kinds of hell on the other end to get it fixed lol.

Also, that repair is not that big on most other cars. Tahoes/Suburbans have the same issue but the repair is much less, like $500, because those lines run down the passenger side just behind the pinch-weld underneath. The way Dodge designed that system and many other things is completely retarded.

 

[Blown 89]

Is home and car insurance a SCAM too?

Sent from my Potato

Yes. If you take the national average for home insurance and reinvest it your performance will far exceed any coverage insurance will give you. If insurance wasn't a scam insurance companies wouldn't be profitable. Society has been taught to ignore mathematical realities and accept it.

 

[Recon]

Being a auto repair facility, and personally handling over 40 claims; I’ll say don’t waste your money. Maybe 7 out of the 40 were covered and the closest, by far, to the price of the bill was 75%.


Pick your poison.

 

[13COBRA]

Yes. If you take the national average for home insurance and reinvest it your performance will far exceed any coverage insurance will give you. If insurance wasn't a scam insurance companies wouldn't be profitable. Society has been taught to ignore mathematical realities and accept it.

Except when you invest it, you pay taxes on it....whatever you invest, you paid taxes to get it....then your profits are taxed.

 

[me32]

Except when you invest it, you pay taxes on it....whatever you invest, you paid taxes to get it....then your profits are taxed.

I do agree with your statement.

Regarding the OP 2010 Hyundai, with 90k on it can you see the value of getting an extended warranty? Vs saying the same money towards another vehicle in the future?

 

[13COBRA]

I do agree with your statement.

Regarding the OP 2010 Hyundai, with 90k on it can you see the value of getting an extended warranty? Vs saying the same money towards another vehicle in the future?

It just depends.

If the engine goes out next week....the warranty would've been the better option. If it goes out in 3 years, saving for a new car would be a better option.

 

[Blown 89]

Except when you invest it, you pay taxes on it....whatever you invest, you paid taxes to get it....then your profits are taxed.

Even with taxes it's still a net positive to ditch insurance.

 

[13COBRA]

Even with taxes it's still a net positive to ditch insurance.

All depends on when it has to be paid out.

 

[Blown 89]

All depends on when it has to be paid out.

The long term yeild doesn't change. Mathematically speaking either the insurance company or you makes money but not both. They wouldn't be in business if the odds were in the consumer's favor.

Extended Car Warranties: An Expensive Gamble

"Among survey participants who used their policy, the median out-of-pocket savings on repairs covered by extended warranties for all brands was $837. Based on a $1,214 average initial cost, that works out to a net loss of more than $375. Factoring those who didn’t use their policy, the median savings was zero. And that may have something to do with why satisfaction with automobile extended warranties is among the lower rated of all products and services surveyed by Consumer Reports"

 

[13COBRA]

The long term yeild doesn't change. Mathematically speaking either the insurance company or you makes money but not both. They wouldn't be in business if the odds were in the consumer's favor.

Extended Car Warranties: An Expensive Gamble

"Among survey participants who used their policy, the median out-of-pocket savings on repairs covered by extended warranties for all brands was $837. Based on a $1,214 average initial cost, that works out to a net loss of more than $375. Factoring those who didn’t use their policy, the median savings was zero. And that may have something to do with why satisfaction with automobile extended warranties is among the lower rated of all products and services surveyed by Consumer Reports"

Until I stop seeing $2500-20,000 repair bills paid by warranty, I'm going to be a believer.

Those numbers are skewed with all of the bullshit policies one could buy from terrible companies.

Sent from my Potato

 

[CobraBob]

In over 50 years of owning cars, I have NEVER needed an expensive repair. The most expensive out of warranty cost was well under $500, and it only happened one time. Aftermarket warranty companies offer these policies to make money. Plain and simple. Which is why pretty much every dealership finance manager tries to sell you on the warranties when you go over the vehicle purchase paperwork. It's a money maker and they know it. They also know in most cases you won't need it. It's good business for the dealership to sell them. It's usually bad business for the customer to buy them. With few exceptions. JMO.

 

[13COBRA]

In over 50 years of owning cars, I have NEVER needed an expensive repair. The most expensive out of warranty cost was well under $500, and it only happened one time. Aftermarket warranty companies offer these policies to make money. Plain and simple. Which is why pretty much every dealership finance manager tries to sell you on the warranties when you go over the vehicle purchase paperwork. It's a money maker and they know it. They also know in most cases you won't need it. It's good business for the dealership to sell them. It's usually bad business for the customer to buy them. With few exceptions. JMO.

How many times have you been in a car accident?

 

[me32]

How many times have you been in a car accident?

Not apples to apples.

Car insurance is required by law. Warranties are not.

 

[me32]

In over 50 years of owning cars, I have NEVER needed an expensive repair. The most expensive out of warranty cost was well under $500, and it only happened one time. Aftermarket warranty companies offer these policies to make money. Plain and simple. Which is why pretty much every dealership finance manager tries to sell you on the warranties when you go over the vehicle purchase paperwork. It's a money maker and they know it. They also know in most cases you won't need it. It's good business for the dealership to sell them. It's usually bad business for the customer to buy them. With few exceptions. JMO.

Yup, infact its some of the dealership highest profits margins on the Sales side.

What I've also started to notice is that Ford dealership have been going away from selling Ford ESP and using all kinds of aftermarket warranties. My understanding is they make alot more profit off them.

I prefer ford ESP since it works at any ford dealership in the country.

 

[13COBRA]

Not apples to apples.

Car insurance is required by law. Warranties are not.

Liability insurance is.

If your car is paid off, and you've never had an accident, why carry full coverage insurance on it?

Yup, infact its some of the dealership highest profits margins on the Sales side.

What I've also started to notice is that Ford dealership have been going away from selling Ford ESP and using all kinds of aftermarket warranties. My understanding is they make alot more profit off them.

I prefer ford ESP since it works at any ford dealership in the country.

Anything over 5% would be BY far the highest profit margins on the sales side haha

Ford ESPs don't offer the flexibility that some of the third party companies do.

For instance. We own our book of business through Zurich. We only offer and sell comprehensive extended service contracts; they will cover anything wrong with the vehicle besides maintenance items or wear and tear.

With Zurich, we have the ability to "OK" a claim on a component if the issue with the component was related to a wear and tear item. For example, if you or a shop rotated tires incorrectly on an AWD vehicle and the transfer case went out because the tread depths varied too much, we could OK that under Zurich's extended service agreement. If it were a Ford ESP, not matter how hard I tried, and pleaded...it would not be covered.

We sell 9 to 1 Zurich: Ford, because it gives us the opportunity to do what's right by the customer rather than rely on Ford Motor Company to do it.

It's MUCH easier for a representative at Ford to say no based on statistics, than it would be for me looking at a 30 year old single mom of 4 kids trying to make it work.

Also, Zurich (along with others) are nationally recognized. You can have work done at any dealership or service center across the country as long as they have an ASE certified technician.

 

[ford fanatic]

Liability insurance is.

If your car is paid off, and you've never had an accident, why carry full coverage insurance on it?

I pay cash for vehicles...losing $30K+ for not having full coverage is a big difference than a $3K car repair.

I always carry full coverage and never buy warranties.

 

[13COBRA]

I pay cash for vehicles...losing $30K+ for not having full coverage is a big difference than a $3K car repair.

I always carry full coverage and never buy warranties.

So would you venture to estimate that a $3,000 repair is the same for someone in a different circumstance than you, compared to a $30,000 vehicle?

I'm going to go ahead and say yes. Especially with less than 15% of car buyers paying cash for a vehicle, and 85% financing.

 

[me32]

Liability insurance is.

If your car is paid off, and you've never had an accident, why carry full coverage insurance on it?



Anything over 5% would be BY far the highest profit margins on the sales side haha

Ford ESPs don't offer the flexibility that some of the third party companies do.

For instance. We own our book of business through Zurich. We only offer and sell comprehensive extended service contracts; they will cover anything wrong with the vehicle besides maintenance items or wear and tear.

With Zurich, we have the ability to "OK" a claim on a component if the issue with the component was related to a wear and tear item. For example, if you or a shop rotated tires incorrectly on an AWD vehicle and the transfer case went out because the tread depths varied too much, we could OK that under Zurich's extended service agreement. If it were a Ford ESP, not matter how hard I tried, and pleaded...it would not be covered.

We sell 9 to 1 Zurich: Ford, because it gives us the opportunity to do what's right by the customer rather than rely on Ford Motor Company to do it.

It's MUCH easier for a representative at Ford to say no based on statistics, than it would be for me looking at a 30 year old single mom of 4 kids trying to make it work.

Also, Zurich (along with others) are nationally recognized. You can have work done at any dealership or service center across the country as long as they have an ASE certified technician.

You have a point to your 1st statement. But how many newer vehicles dont have loans on them?

I have no personal experience Zurich. But lets say someone out of state buys Zurich from you with a vehicle from you.

They have issues with the vehicle take it to there local Ford dealership. Dealership says its gonna be a 1hr diagnosis min. Person says hey i have extended warranty with a $0 deductible. That ford dealership says we dont use Zurich we use lets say Car shield. They let the customer know that you can submit the claim to your warranty company. But you still owe us the 1hr diagnosis fee.

Things like that happen. Have a couple personal friends that's exactly what happened to them. Basically a back and fourth nightmare to get there vehicle fixed and covered for the repair.

My personal experience with Ford ESP has been i go the dealership. Describe the issue i have. Drop the vehicle off. Leave with a loaner and the vehicle get fixed with no out of pocket cost cause i choose 0 deductible.

I would say its much easier for the selling dealership for the warranty and vehicle to get things fixed under the plans they sale. Rather than a dealership that uses a different 3rd pary warranty.