BINGO
Hell you don't even need a built motor I dont think. Not right away.
The auto is a key IMO.
9 Sec Turbo Setup?
- Thread starter HoustonSVT
- Start date
BINGO
Hell you don't even need a built motor I dont think. Not right away.
The auto is a key IMO.
BTW Obviously you have nothing to say then bullet if you cant say it ouside dumbdown cafe.
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hmmm, I haven't read about a lot of people having issues with driveability unless they go with larger injectors. I figured I would have some issues with the new 80's, but ford just released some new values that apparently clear up the issues, so we will see. jury is still out on them imo.
I just don't think in the real world you can say, my eaton made 500, I add the turbo that is capable of making 800, so I can make 1300rwhp total. I could be wrong, but I don't think it works like that, just like not being able to add the boost from each to figure out what the compounded amount will be.
no doubt the piping isn't that big of a deal with a single compound setup. but without relocation a bunch of stuff, behind the bumper is pretty much the only location for a compound setup. you can put it where the stock airbox or battery is, but then you are relcating a lot of stuff, cutting the car, etc.
the compound kit from hellion from the beginning had options for 57-76's. they opted to have it come standard with 61's and different 61's depending on compound or just standard turbo kit.
I just don't think in the real world you can say, my eaton made 500, I add the turbo that is capable of making 800, so I can make 1300rwhp total. I could be wrong, but I don't think it works like that, just like not being able to add the boost from each to figure out what the compounded amount will be.
no doubt the piping isn't that big of a deal with a single compound setup. but without relocation a bunch of stuff, behind the bumper is pretty much the only location for a compound setup. you can put it where the stock airbox or battery is, but then you are relcating a lot of stuff, cutting the car, etc.
the compound kit from hellion from the beginning had options for 57-76's. they opted to have it come standard with 61's and different 61's depending on compound or just standard turbo kit.
Turbos having ratings, just like superchargers, eventually you'll spin them to the point of not being effective. If you have a car and 2 different size turbos you'll have a HP rating of the effective limit of each turbo. Each car will be different but for the sake of arguement asuming you have two similiar cobras the hp will be similiar for each car for each size turbo. That's all I was saying.
Making just a basic generalisation that a average mid-60mm turbo would give your average cobra engine 450rwhp at its peak operation isnt a bad estimate.
Nothing is set in stone as there are so many combinations and manufactures of turbos but it's safe to say that if a turbo makes a certain amount of hp for one person it's probably going to make close that that hp for someone with similiar mods.
My estimates and findings are based upon other peoples numbers that post up their setups. Nothing more nothing less. Since there is such a small amount of info that people can go on when it comes to building these setups I see no reason why some general info can't be offered up even if it isnt 100% dead on accurate. A ballpark figure is usually close enough for most people.
i think this thread needs to be deleted, before the bullshit posted i here starts finding its way around the internet, and you got guys wanting to throw 60mm turbos on thier stock termis and make 100000000000000000000000rwhp
Because those turbo ratings by themselves don't have blowers in the way, and those blower only numbers aren't being forced through a turbo manifold and housing.
I gotta agree... I can't see how this is as easy as 2+2=4. More like 2+2=3.5. A turbo rated at 600 horsepower then having to force air through a blower intake tract... that same turbo isn't going to ADD 600 HP, is it?
I don't think nitrous can even be considered in this conversation, as it's process is in the combustion chamber.
I don't think nitrous can even be considered in this conversation, as it's process is in the combustion chamber.
you just proved my point. you are wrong about the nitrous. in a multi power adder application you can't just add 1+1 or 2+2 to get a number and think it is correct.
go look at any terminator running their eaton, KB or whipple and adding nitrous. they can spray 100hp shot. it won't result in adding 100hp to the power they already make. they actually make more than that 100hp and tq. I have not seen or read 1 case where someone has added nitrous to a boosted application and not make more than the advertised jet size. having multiple power adders just isn't that cut and dry to figure out the power you will make.
I plan on running a 50 or 75 shot, but I guarantee i will see more than that.
exactly. now, I don't know of an equation or any way to really figure it out. I wish there was an easy way. probably some long ass differential equation or something.:lol:
Talk about not grasping at all what i'm saying... lol
All I said was if you have a turbo that's going to make a max of LETS JUST SAY IN THEORY NO HARD NUMBERS 600rwhp on one car it's going to make similiar numbers on another car with similiar mods.
Since MOST 03/04 cobras have very similiar mods when you start getting into that power range it's not a far off shot to say if you have a stock motor, stock tranny, stock rear, blah blah blah and you add: THIS MOD you'll get: THIS HP.
This is exactly how we know if you put a 2.76 only upper only a stg 4 or 5 eaton you're good for 500-520hp. How do we know this? Because most terminators have intake, exhaust, etc. If you had cams, headers, built engine, obviously your numbers would be different.
People come in here and pick apart what I said trying to find fault. There is no fault in what I said because it was a explanation based upon a ESTIMATE OF FAKE NUMBERS.
For MY actual setup on MY car those numbers are fairly close actually.
I posted multiple times that having different sizes, models, manufactures, of turbo and mods to the car will obviously change someones results with their own setup.
The man was curious on how the compound boost setup works as far as adding hp from the turbo and this is EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS. You take the HP you had BEFORE you put the turbo on and you SUBTRACT it from the HP you got AFTER the turbo. That would give you the turbos HP that was added for the PSI the turbo is set at.
I never talked about COMPOUND PSI or manifold psi, or how airflow or anything else is effected. There is a post that explains all that on modulerfords if you're curious about it.
Some people here cant grasp 2nd grade math or basic reasoning skills and it's kinda scary.
You actually measure compound psi at the intake manifold not by just adding the numbers together.
All I said was if you have a turbo that's going to make a max of LETS JUST SAY IN THEORY NO HARD NUMBERS 600rwhp on one car it's going to make similiar numbers on another car with similiar mods.
Since MOST 03/04 cobras have very similiar mods when you start getting into that power range it's not a far off shot to say if you have a stock motor, stock tranny, stock rear, blah blah blah and you add: THIS MOD you'll get: THIS HP.
This is exactly how we know if you put a 2.76 only upper only a stg 4 or 5 eaton you're good for 500-520hp. How do we know this? Because most terminators have intake, exhaust, etc. If you had cams, headers, built engine, obviously your numbers would be different.
People come in here and pick apart what I said trying to find fault. There is no fault in what I said because it was a explanation based upon a ESTIMATE OF FAKE NUMBERS.
For MY actual setup on MY car those numbers are fairly close actually.
I posted multiple times that having different sizes, models, manufactures, of turbo and mods to the car will obviously change someones results with their own setup.
The man was curious on how the compound boost setup works as far as adding hp from the turbo and this is EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS. You take the HP you had BEFORE you put the turbo on and you SUBTRACT it from the HP you got AFTER the turbo. That would give you the turbos HP that was added for the PSI the turbo is set at.
I never talked about COMPOUND PSI or manifold psi, or how airflow or anything else is effected. There is a post that explains all that on modulerfords if you're curious about it.
Some people here cant grasp 2nd grade math or basic reasoning skills and it's kinda scary.
The equation has been posted a few times to get compound psi numbers. Search for them it's actually really easy.
You actually measure compound psi at the intake manifold not by just adding the numbers together.
Comments like these are retarded and show a complete lack of understanding and knowledge on the subject, I wont even begin to formulate a coherent response since you didnt bother to.
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Hey moderator can we restrict the turbo terminator section to only those of us with turbo terminators and save some thread space.
ttt
Yeah... that's not quite the way you tried to explain it at first. Now you give an example that can be applied to any improvement to horsepower output: HP+(add on)=*more HP*, therefore *more HP*-HP=HP that the (add on) produced. Guess I need to go finish my milk and get ready for nap time.
So, you never visited a turbo specific site, forum, or thread till you had one? :shrug:
I get your point that this thread has gotten off track, but there may be reasons that some of us WITHOUT turbos may be lurking here. ;-)
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Thread space is running pretty low huh?
I'll try to keep this as simple as I can and only in regards to compound set-ups.
The peak horsepower will be completly dependant on the size of the turbo and the amount of CFM it is capable of flowing. This is because the air has to flow through the turbo before it ever gets to the blower. The turbo does not force air through the blower, in actuality the blower is reducing the backpressure at the discharge of the turbo because the blower moves the air from point A (turbo discharge) to point B blower discharge faster than would normally occure without the blower. This in turn makes the turbo more efficient, and is why you see people mention only 5 psi from the turbo, but it's actually moving the same CFM of air through it as it would at a much higher psi without the blower. The compound set-up also makes the blower more efficient because it is grabbing a fixed volume (PD blowers are constant VOLUME machines) of a higher pressure air than if it was drawing it's own air at whatever elevation your at. Think of it like this.....a PD blower only car at sea level is more efficient with the same pulley ratio than the same car at 6000' elevation in Colorado. Why? because there is a higher pressure air available at the inlet of the blower. The compound set-up works in the same manner, just far more exagerated because you can increase the air pressure at the inlet of the blower in measurements of psi verses measurements of hg. The formula (which I'll add later once I find it again) has you figure the PR for the turbo, and the PR for the blower, multiply those together, and convert back to a PSI for the total psi the motor is seeing.
With all that said, I would not put a small single into a compound set-up. Even though the blower makes the turbo more effecient, the turbo still has to spin fast enough to supply the required CFM to make X amount of horsepower, and you will end up pushing the small turbo way past it's efficiency range. They can only spin so fast before the impeller blades lose "traction" with the air and will do nothing but cavitate and heat the air up! For a single turbo in a compound set-up I wouldn't consider anything smaller than a 76mm with a good sized A/R exhaust housing. Personally I would look closer at an 88 or a 91mm turbo for a single compound set-up!
Ken:beer:
The peak horsepower will be completly dependant on the size of the turbo and the amount of CFM it is capable of flowing. This is because the air has to flow through the turbo before it ever gets to the blower. The turbo does not force air through the blower, in actuality the blower is reducing the backpressure at the discharge of the turbo because the blower moves the air from point A (turbo discharge) to point B blower discharge faster than would normally occure without the blower. This in turn makes the turbo more efficient, and is why you see people mention only 5 psi from the turbo, but it's actually moving the same CFM of air through it as it would at a much higher psi without the blower. The compound set-up also makes the blower more efficient because it is grabbing a fixed volume (PD blowers are constant VOLUME machines) of a higher pressure air than if it was drawing it's own air at whatever elevation your at. Think of it like this.....a PD blower only car at sea level is more efficient with the same pulley ratio than the same car at 6000' elevation in Colorado. Why? because there is a higher pressure air available at the inlet of the blower. The compound set-up works in the same manner, just far more exagerated because you can increase the air pressure at the inlet of the blower in measurements of psi verses measurements of hg. The formula (which I'll add later once I find it again) has you figure the PR for the turbo, and the PR for the blower, multiply those together, and convert back to a PSI for the total psi the motor is seeing.
With all that said, I would not put a small single into a compound set-up. Even though the blower makes the turbo more effecient, the turbo still has to spin fast enough to supply the required CFM to make X amount of horsepower, and you will end up pushing the small turbo way past it's efficiency range. They can only spin so fast before the impeller blades lose "traction" with the air and will do nothing but cavitate and heat the air up! For a single turbo in a compound set-up I wouldn't consider anything smaller than a 76mm with a good sized A/R exhaust housing. Personally I would look closer at an 88 or a 91mm turbo for a single compound set-up!
Ken:beer:
Also just to add!
(and some of you can go ahead and flame all you want, but I've researched this far more than most)
You can not add the power output of the blower to the power output of a turbo and get a total power output. Just as you would not take a 500 hp N/A motor and add an 800 hp turbo and expect to get 1300 hp. Ultimately the turbo is the limiting factor in how much HP can be done in a compound set-up (or turbo only for that matter), since it has to flow the air required for XXX amount of horsepower. The blower is just moving that air from point A to point B which is why it is not a restriction. Some extra power will be gained through the efficiency at which the turbo will be at, but it has to flow X CFM to make XXX amount of HP, and the impeller will spin the same speed to move that CFM of air regardless of what the boost pressure at the discharge is.....it's just doing it alot easier with less back pressure in a compound set-up. The impeller speed of the turbo is a constant to the CFM it's moving, and not constant to the psi at it's discharge!
Ken
(and some of you can go ahead and flame all you want, but I've researched this far more than most)
You can not add the power output of the blower to the power output of a turbo and get a total power output. Just as you would not take a 500 hp N/A motor and add an 800 hp turbo and expect to get 1300 hp. Ultimately the turbo is the limiting factor in how much HP can be done in a compound set-up (or turbo only for that matter), since it has to flow the air required for XXX amount of horsepower. The blower is just moving that air from point A to point B which is why it is not a restriction. Some extra power will be gained through the efficiency at which the turbo will be at, but it has to flow X CFM to make XXX amount of HP, and the impeller will spin the same speed to move that CFM of air regardless of what the boost pressure at the discharge is.....it's just doing it alot easier with less back pressure in a compound set-up. The impeller speed of the turbo is a constant to the CFM it's moving, and not constant to the psi at it's discharge!
Ken
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Nice explanation of what somebody was trying to say early on in this thread, although didn't know the techno-speak to state it formally. Hmmm... now who was that? :shrug:
Ken, thanks for sharing some knowledge on this subject. Sounds like a heck of a combo to go with. I would also think an 88mm BB turbo with the eaton would be awesome. I wonder why it isn't more popular?
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