As if these cars weren't ridiculous enough to start with, now add an easy tbrake into the mix of easy power and a stock auto that holds tons of power. Good time to be an auto coyote owner
6R80 Transbrake, No purchase necessary
- Thread starter WHSTLR
- Start date
As if these cars weren't ridiculous enough to start with, now add an easy tbrake into the mix of easy power and a stock auto that holds tons of power. Good time to be an auto coyote owner
CPRsm
Active Member
Hopefully you guys understand what line pressure is in a transmission. And how he arrived where he did. Since he couldn't get it done like us, he raised the line pressure in the transmission, which causes the converter to push on the thrust bearing even harder. The mod engine already has a weak thrust as it is. And when a mod thrust goes, so can the oil pump. Anyone guess as to why MMR makes a rollerized thrust bearing? Have at it because it's free though.
And you don't think tuners will charge for a retune? :shrug:
Here's what I find funny. Tuners do the same exact thing. If you have an AED tune, will Lund give/sell you his idle lope value file to run w AED's tune? NOPE. You want his lope, you buy his tune. But that doesn't upset people for some reason.
In all honestly I still won't sell these. I may make them available thru another channel so this guy doesn't **** up a bunch of engines and trannies. He deny line pressure having anything to do with converter pressure on the crank. No clue.
Ford mechanically limits converter pressure internally in the transmission regardless of how high you raise line pressure. Ford does this precisely for the reason you mentioned. In a case where you could get full line pressure due to a solenoid failure, it won't balloon the stock converter. So saying that running full line pressure is dangerous to the converter or could cause thrust issues is most likely inaccurate due to what I know about this trans. I could be wrong, testing will show us for sure. Just want you to have all the proper info. Not looking to get into a debate.
Also, there really is no 'tuning' required'. You just have to shut off some codes to prevent a failsafe situation. Any tuner out there can do it once SCT adds the proper parameters to the database.
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amen
CPRsm
Active Member
Full line pressure CAN cause it. Not really anything to debate about it. I'm not saying it will in this for certain any more than you can say it won't. If Ford limited it that's great. But to get people worked up when you don't know, and blindly give it away is irresponsible as ****
Line pressure doesn't balloon converters :bash:
Line pressure pushes the converter at the back of the crank
Line pressure doesn't balloon converters :bash:
Line pressure pushes the converter at the back of the crank
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Like I said, not looking to get in a debate, just putting the info out there. I have no skin in this game. My car goes 1.50 on 19" wheels with no transbrake. I think most people out there would be happy with that performance. So anything more they can get with a transbrake is great, but it's not a live or die situation either.
No one said anything about charging for a retune. Simply that many people buy mods knowing they have to get a retune. If it affects the engine or transmission you typically (but not always) get a tune or retune. Or you do like some and buy several mods (or perform several mods without driving car) and then tune. So don't down play that its common. As an edit: KenB cleared up the tuning questions!
To enlighten us on your "line 'pressure" to converter pressure theory, please first let us know what the stock line pressure is, the line pressure when utilizing his setup and the max line pressure allowed before you begin to push through the oil at the thrust bearing and damage the crank? A lot of concern for something free. Tell us why you don't pass your deign along to the masses Dustin? Is there line pressure concerns or other concerns that could cause damage to where you won't release it? See theres always atleast two sides to every story. We get you don't want to mass produce it, but neither does kdanner. he simply will release his idea to others. So lets see your idea since you won't be selling it! Please tell your future customers why you won't!:shrug:
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This WAS true with the old TH400s etc.. Not sure its the case with the 6R80 though!
I'd be happy with consistent 1.5x or better short times!!!! Would put me close to if not in the 8's!!!!!! :beer:
CPRsm
Active Member
And you know that all tuners will be doing hours of revisions for free?
"Enlighten" your google search. It's not theory. I don't know the line pressures or maxes. Don't need to. My design doesn't raise the entire transmission pressure. I'm not sure his does. He made mention, I'm saying be careful. Not sure on the cause for concern comment. You don't mind a little engine damage as long as the part was free?
Sorry but not sure why you think I should share because I won't sell it. I only looked into it as a means to an end. I knew once we figured it out others would be trying for it. There's no money in it. Once I sold a few publicly, it wouldn't be long before the plans were leaked. It's so simple most will make their own, not I've been planning to wiki leak that shit for a while. I said it wouldn't always be private. I know I did lol
How are you going to tell me to "enlighten" you on the theory of line pressure to converter and then you act like you know what I mean here?
In the end if it works and it's safe, awesome. The wave wasn't going to last forever.
This is not a tag.
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A converter built correct with anti ballooning plates, and spaced correctly, will keep from wiping out the trust bearings. I would like you to name me a manual valve body trans that doesn't run full line pressure with trans brakes, i can't think of any as they all will. Running full line pressure is not going to wipe your trust bearings. The converter not being built correct and not spacing it correct would be more of a concern than line pressure.
CPRsm
Active Member
Would you like to place money on that?
On what response? I've seen more trust bearings concerns from improperly built converters, or spaced, than from high line pressure. A undersized trans cooler setup will create more problems with pressures in the converter than actual line pressure going into it. If it can't exit the converter properly, the converter will want to push or balloon. If spaced and built correct, then you shouldn't have an issue. If you want to find an example of a manual valve body trans that doesn't run full pressure, yes there's some out there. A majority of manual valve body TB setups run full pressure, and live perfectly fine without wiping trust bearings out.
CPRsm
Active Member
This.
The EPC solenoid on prior Ford transmissions works as a bleed off valve. The more output it receives, whether it is PWM or current, the less line pressure the transmission gets. Should the EPC solenoid fail, this would send line pressure to whatever the pump and valvebody will muster. To Ken's point, Ford has designed a mechanical countermeasure for this type of failure.
For tuning, I would start by subtracting 2 from the OBDII test switch value.
Electrically, a transistor switches faster than a relay.
Once you have an understanding of the truth table that controls SSA thru SSE, then you have a starting point for the wiring.
I am very surprised that after three years this hasn't been fully documented and posted on a tech forum. That aside, kudos to those who have taken the initiative.
For tuning, I would start by subtracting 2 from the OBDII test switch value.
Electrically, a transistor switches faster than a relay.
Once you have an understanding of the truth table that controls SSA thru SSE, then you have a starting point for the wiring.
I am very surprised that after three years this hasn't been fully documented and posted on a tech forum. That aside, kudos to those who have taken the initiative.
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I've never seen proof that line pressure IS solely the problem, and many setups survive without a hiccup running full line pressure. People speculate line pressure is the culprit which it can be IF, you don't have adequate trans cooler/line setup for the fluid to exit, non ballooning plate converter, too tight converter spacing. It's easier to blame line pressure, than an improperly built converter, poor install where they did improper clearance for expansion and movement of the converter snout, or an undersized trans cooler setup. If the converter is built correct, it will expand very minimally, and what it does, proper clearance will negate. A proper trans cooler setup will also help keep fluid expansion from heat at bay while allow exit from the converter. So in all, no, line pressure alone will not cause thrust bearing failure.
That is how it works on this transmission as well Steve, thank you for the insight.
For tuning, you just have to shut off a few codes to prevent a failsafe. kdanner will list those codes along with the instructions. Someone will have to get SCT to add them though. Once they do that, then any tuner can take care of it.
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