07 convertible gt500 vs. 06 C6 Z06 (stock)

[black2007shelby]

sure , i will let u know, i have been baiting him long time since the time we raced it will be 3rd gear around 60 mph rolling next time for sure. Thing thats been holding up the race is that he 's too scare of getting a big ticket man, hahaha

 

[gearhead08]

Ya tickets are never fun. Especially big ones.

 

[NightRide]

Not sure why this thread was deleted from the GT500 section and made again here but I'll add my two cents. First of all it's rare for an upper only car to be in the 570 range and when I was upper/tune made 520ish and a stock Z would show me tail lights n top of 3rd and 4th. 2nd always looked good n I've been in a lot of runs so I can drive.

Haven't ran one in my new set up yet but I'm in high 500s with an upper/port. My set up or an upper/lower combo is what is seeing high 500s on the dyno consistantly. You can't base power numbers on what a few cars did on a happy dyno. With these set ups I do believe you can hold one off til 140.

Remember a stock z is running door to door with a 13 shelby making almost 600 at the wheel on most dynos so that should give you a pretty good idea of what it takes.

 

[MrGlock81]

yeah let us know when you at least run out third gear? I have never run a c6z but you having huge weight disadvantage (vert) I think things will get ugly quick top side. or dig

 

[gearhead08]

not sure why this thread was deleted from the gt500 section and made again here but i'll add my two cents. First of all it's rare for an upper only car to be in the 570 range and when i was upper/tune made 520ish and a stock z would show me tail lights n top of 3rd and 4th. 2nd always looked good n i've been in a lot of runs so i can drive.

Haven't ran one in my new set up yet but i'm in high 500s with an upper/port. My set up or an upper/lower combo is what is seeing high 500s on the dyno consistantly. You can't base power numbers on what a few cars did on a happy dyno. With these set ups i do believe you can hold one off til 140.

Remember a stock z is running door to door with a 13 shelby making almost 600 at the wheel on most dynos so that should give you a pretty good idea of what it takes.

+1

 

[Poppacapp]

Not sure why this thread was deleted from the GT500 section and made again here but I'll add my two cents. First of all it's rare for an upper only car to be in the 570 range and when I was upper/tune made 520ish and a stock Z would show me tail lights n top of 3rd and 4th. 2nd always looked good n I've been in a lot of runs so I can drive.

Haven't ran one in my new set up yet but I'm in high 500s with an upper/port. My set up or an upper/lower combo is what is seeing high 500s on the dyno consistantly. You can't base power numbers on what a few cars did on a happy dyno. With these set ups I do believe you can hold one off til 140.

Remember a stock z is running door to door with a 13 shelby making almost 600 at the wheel on most dynos so that should give you a pretty good idea of what it takes.

I made 510rwhp/499tq bone stock, with even the factory resonator in the car. 2.6 metco upper pulley, and dyno tune(with a resonator delete) made 571rwhp/587tq. In a few weeks, I may be adding lower 10% pulley and retune. Hoping to be very high 500's/right at 600rwhp then.. still factory exhaust.

 

[LS1Andrew]

sure , i will let u know, i have been baiting him long time since the time we raced it will be 3rd gear around 60 mph rolling next time for sure. Thing thats been holding up the race is that he 's too scare of getting a big ticket man, hahaha

60mph roll should be 2nd gear for the Z06, not 3rd.

1st goes to ~60, 2nd to ~90, 3rd to ~120.

Sounds like you have a pretty stout car. :rockon:

 

[dead man walkin]

Ok i dont have anything to add to this conversation. Other than calling out gearhead08 for running to the camaro5 forum and whining about this thread, calling all you deluded for thinking a gt500 has a chance against a z06.. first off gear head you do realize camaro5 is the most delusional group of camaro cults out there, save for a few members.. but wow thats just sad you posted this in their vs. Forum.

 

[S8ER01Z]

you do realize camaro5 is the most delusional group of camaro cults out there, save for a few members.. but wow thats just sad you posted this in their vs. Forum.

This x10000. F-body owners are shunned over there and hated on.. anyone with a mustang is treated far far worse. It's a good for a laugh but never expect a seriously intelligent debate/conversation regarding cars over there.

 

[NightRide]

I made 510rwhp/499tq bone stock, with even the factory resonator in the car. 2.6 metco upper pulley, and dyno tune(with a resonator delete) made 571rwhp/587tq. In a few weeks, I may be adding lower 10% pulley and retune. Hoping to be very high 500's/right at 600rwhp then.. still factory exhaust.

Not saying I dispute your numbers, some dynos just read higher than others. Most pulley/tune cars I've seen come in right around 520-540. Only way I see a car making 30-50 more whp with the same pulley/tune is if the svt tech accidently filled your car with amsoil, haha. Have you ran a Z with your setup or just basing what you think will happen from power numbers?

 

[gearhead08]

Ok i dont have anything to add to this conversation. Other than calling out gearhead08 for running to the camaro5 forum and whining about this thread, calling all you deluded for thinking a gt500 has a chance against a z06.. first off gear head you do realize camaro5 is the most delusional group of camaro cults out there, save for a few members.. but wow thats just sad you posted this in their vs. Forum.

Well people are posting how they wont be walked by a c6 z06. Which they would pretty easily I have facts to back it up where there idea of them saying they can beat one is a joke. So trying to get more people with common sense in here. I have a gt500 like that guy I know what it can do... if I get beat I get beat im not a friggen nut hugger thinking I can handle cars like a z06 and its normal... if some people would get off the internet and race their cars more than a second gear roll they would know also... im done with this nonsense you are dillusional to think you can beat a c6z06 thats stock and have it be the norm... with competent drivers its not going to happen.

 

[gearhead08]

This x10000. F-body owners are shunned over there and hated on.. anyone with a mustang is treated far far worse. It's a good for a laugh but never expect a seriously intelligent debate/conversation regarding cars over there.

Well if you dont go bashing there shit every two seconds... you probably wont get banned or hated on... yes they have nuthugger extremists like this forum too. Plus I like a lot of cars im on all forums to learn about them.. I do not like being short sighted like certain individuals on this forum. Id take a zl1 camaro and put it right next to my gt500 and I might do that someday... I know what both cars have to offer.. any ways have a nice day excuse me for trying to get some people to talk some sense into people that think they have the baddest car on the road and think they can walk c6z06s normally...

 

[dead man walkin]

I'm not saying i agree or disagree with you, on the over all winner in this event, i have driven a 2007 Z06 alot.. and i have been in a few modded gt500's, and i have been to and seen quite a few races, the majority of Z06 owners cant drive, i have been to a few corvette meetings, it's true more often than not, i have seen lots of cars beat cars that should have won based on driver.. howeveri was saying bringing in level headed corvette specialists from the camaro5 forum??? no.. iknow i'm a member there also, been a member since i met a bunch of the guys there at drag and brag a few years ago. we all love our cars, they though are fed information from fbodfather directly and they believe both him and the car walk/drive on water. i have no ill will for those guys and i feel sorry for the GM camaro engineers and designers, they do pretty well for being hancuffed with funding, but they are no where near non bias,

 

[gearhead08]

I'm not saying i agree or disagree with you, on the over all winner in this event, i have driven a 2007 Z06 alot.. and i have been in a few modded gt500's, and i have been to and seen quite a few races, the majority of Z06 owners cant drive, i have been to a few corvette meetings, it's true more often than not, i have seen lots of cars beat cars that should have won based on driver.. howeveri was saying bringing in level headed corvette specialists from the camaro5 forum??? no.. iknow i'm a member there also, been a member since i met a bunch of the guys there at drag and brag a few years ago. we all love our cars, they though are fed information from fbodfather directly and they believe both him and the car walk/drive on water. i have no ill will for those guys and i feel sorry for the GM camaro engineers and designers, they do pretty well for being hancuffed with funding, but they are no where near non bias,

I was just looking for someone that has experience with these car's also... Im not trying to bring forum wars and what not. Just want to get the fact's straight and at the time. Everyone was agreeing with him which they probably havnt even raced a real race with a c6z06 that goes into the triple digits. Anyway's ya I probably instigated it a little bit but when your being told your a crappy driver or your tune is wrong when you know for a fact the guy is talking out his ass, it kind of gets annoying. So I tried getting through to these guys but I resorted to hoping someone over there will bring more facts... but it brought you along saying how stupid of an idea that was... not everyone on camaro5 is ignorant same with SVTP just trying to bring the non ignorant people in here.

 

[BlueSnake01]

Looks like O.P is not knowledgeable yet in the car scene and is probably his fast car. One gear races means nothing……….. Wouldnt even consider it a race.

 

[kirks5oh]

Looks like O.P is not knowledgeable yet in the car scene and is probably his fast car. One gear races means nothing……….. Wouldnt even consider it a race.

+1.


once the vette hits third gear, its usually all over. and it sounds like the z driver doesn't know his car either--especially if he's in 3rd gear at 50mph:bash:

as stated, a stock cz6 will run door to door with a '13 gt500. unless you're pushing well over 550rwhp, i just don't see the shelby beating a comparably driven c6z. when i first bought my c6z, i had a whippled cobra with a built auto, solid rear, etc. the c6z felt every bit as fast, especially at 90+ mph

 

[Poppacapp]

Where to start... oh yeah.. at the first quote:

Not saying I dispute your numbers, some dynos just read higher than others. Most pulley/tune cars I've seen come in right around 520-540. Only way I see a car making 30-50 more whp with the same pulley/tune is if the svt tech accidently filled your car with amsoil, haha. Have you ran a Z with your setup or just basing what you think will happen from power numbers?

Dynos do read differently. It should only be used as a tuning tool. Using this logic, I gained 61rwhp, and 88ft/lb tq with 2.6 upper and tune.
And, no amsoil would be near my car. If so, I would have to burn it. :lol1:
I have not had the opportunity to run a Z yet, but will this spring, and will be on camera. But other GT500 owners have, and 120rwhp more will get the win.

Well people are posting how they wont be walked by a c6 z06. Which they would pretty easily I have facts to back it up where there idea of them saying they can beat one is a joke. So trying to get more people with common sense in here. I have a gt500 like that guy I know what it can do... if I get beat I get beat im not a friggen nut hugger thinking I can handle cars like a z06 and its normal... if some people would get off the internet and race their cars more than a second gear roll they would know also... im done with this nonsense you are dillusional to think you can beat a c6z06 thats stock and have it be the norm... with competent drivers its not going to happen.

The only facts you have to back your statement up, is YOUR race, with YOUR car. What was your rwhp numbers? If you are putting around 520-530rwhp down, then no... you do not have enough hp to overcome the weight difference. I stress yet again... a STOCK C6Z06, will NOT walk a properly tuned/pullied GT500. Maybe yours, but not mine.

Well if you dont go bashing there shit every two seconds... you probably wont get banned or hated on... yes they have nuthugger extremists like this forum too. Plus I like a lot of cars im on all forums to learn about them.. I do not like being short sighted like certain individuals on this forum. Id take a zl1 camaro and put it right next to my gt500 and I might do that someday... I know what both cars have to offer.. any ways have a nice day excuse me for trying to get some people to talk some sense into people that think they have the baddest car on the road and think they can walk c6z06s normally...

There is ALWAYS someone faster than you out there. I do not think my car is the baddest out there... hell I got beat by a 526rwhp Turbo Mach 1(power to weight mang). And I can assure you, he would beat a stock C6Z06 also. Just like I would. :bored:

+1.


once the vette hits third gear, its usually all over. and it sounds like the z driver doesn't know his car either--especially if he's in 3rd gear at 50mph:bash:

as stated, a stock cz6 will run door to door with a '13 gt500. unless you're pushing well over 550rwhp, i just don't see the shelby beating a comparably driven c6z. when i first bought my c6z, i had a whippled cobra with a built auto, solid rear, etc. the c6z felt every bit as fast, especially at 90+ mph

So let's make this simple for the sake of argument:

Remove the names of the cars... no more GT500, and no more Z06:

Car A(former Z06) weighs 3200lbs.
Car B(former GT500) weighs 3800lbs.

If car A and car B had the exact same horsepower, car A would win. So, to be able to defeat car A, car B has to overcome the weight deficit, meaning car B needs to increase HP.

Power to weight ratio is where it is at. You have other minor contributors to this when very high speeds come into play such as aerodynamics, but not enough to make the huge difference in a short highway burst.

So, lets say that Car A weighs 3200lbs+200lb driver = 3400lbs.
Let's say Car A put down 450rwhp(Stock Car A)

This is an effective power to weight ratio of 0.1323 horsepower per pound of weight.

Now, let's say Car B weighs 3800lbs+200lb driver = 4000lbs.
Let's say Car B put down 570rwhp

This is an effective power to weight ratio of 0.1425 horsepower per pound of weight.

The larger number is better kiddies.

So my original statement is it takes 100-120rwhp more for the heavier GT500 to overcome the weight deficit with the Z06. A stock Z06 WILL NOT walk a well tuned and pullied Shelby. As long as the Shelby has approx. 120more rwhp, it will be a different outcome, provided both drivers can drive.

I know how much people hate the science, and FACTS stuff.. like mentioned above... but.. Physics is Physics.

 

[gearhead08]

Where to start... oh yeah.. at the first quote:



Dynos do read differently. It should only be used as a tuning tool. Using this logic, I gained 61rwhp, and 88ft/lb tq with 2.6 upper and tune.
And, no amsoil would be near my car. If so, I would have to burn it. :lol1:
I have not had the opportunity to run a Z yet, but will this spring, and will be on camera. But other GT500 owners have, and 120rwhp more will get the win.



The only facts you have to back your statement up, is YOUR race, with YOUR car. What was your rwhp numbers? If you are putting around 520-530rwhp down, then no... you do not have enough hp to overcome the weight difference. I stress yet again... a STOCK C6Z06, will NOT walk a properly tuned/pullied GT500. Maybe yours, but not mine.



There is ALWAYS someone faster than you out there. I do not think my car is the baddest out there... hell I got beat by a 526rwhp Turbo Mach 1(power to weight mang). And I can assure you, he would beat a stock C6Z06 also. Just like I would. :bored:



So let's make this simple for the sake of argument:

Remove the names of the cars... no more GT500, and no more Z06:

Car A(former Z06) weighs 3200lbs.
Car B(former GT500) weighs 3800lbs.

If car A and car B had the exact same horsepower, car A would win. So, to be able to defeat car A, car B has to overcome the weight deficit, meaning car B needs to increase HP.

Power to weight ratio is where it is at. You have other minor contributors to this when very high speeds come into play such as aerodynamics, but not enough to make the huge difference in a short highway burst.

So, lets say that Car A weighs 3200lbs+200lb driver = 3400lbs.
Let's say Car A put down 450rwhp(Stock Car A)

This is an effective power to weight ratio of 0.1323 horsepower per pound of weight.

Now, let's say Car B weighs 3800lbs+200lb driver = 4000lbs.
Let's say Car B put down 570rwhp

This is an effective power to weight ratio of 0.1425 horsepower per pound of weight.

The larger number is better kiddies.

So my original statement is it takes 100-120rwhp more for the heavier GT500 to overcome the weight deficit with the Z06. A stock Z06 WILL NOT walk a well tuned and pullied Shelby. As long as the Shelby has approx. 120more rwhp, it will be a different outcome, provided both drivers can drive.

I know how much people hate the science, and FACTS stuff.. like mentioned above... but.. Physics is Physics.

Talking about physics.. don't forget about gearing which plays a SIGNIFICANT roll I am assuming you do not have 3.31's in that like ours. Plus I have not really been talking about your car more the 07-09 cars who weight in at 3950 lbs and the guys convertible topping the scales at over 2 tons. Your car has the advantage compared to the 07-09 cars. I don't know what your car has to be pushing 570rwhp but if it IN fact has 570rwhp and doesn't have a happy dyno then its on par with the 100rwhp to 125rwhp advantage it needs. But 95% OF THE TIME a upper only pullied gt500 will not beat a c6z06 in IDEAL conditions, competent driver's and such. Also If your short highway burst is only 2nd gear and thats all you do all the time then I guess a gt500 will hang a little with it. After a gt500 and c6z06 both get into 3rd gear you would be quite amazed to see what aerodynamics does. Of course yours is a factory freak with a tune and such so you should be good... Also please come back with a video with this stock c6z06 that you run so I will know that you indeed do hang with it. I will bow down to the great poppacap and give respect. You keep saying how you would beat one. I need to see you beating one for me to change my mind.. thats how most people are. So until then were at a standstill.

 

[Poppacapp]

Talking about physics.. don't forget about gearing which plays a SIGNIFICANT roll I am assuming you do not have 3.31's in that like ours. Plus I have not really been talking about your car more the 07-09 cars who weight in at 3950 lbs and the guys convertible topping the scales at over 2 tons. Your car has the advantage compared to the 07-09 cars. I don't know what your car has to be pushing 570rwhp but if it IN fact has 570rwhp and doesn't have a happy dyno then its on par with the 100rwhp to 125rwhp advantage it needs. But 95% OF THE TIME a upper only pullied gt500 will not beat a c6z06 in IDEAL conditions, competent driver's and such. Also If your short highway burst is only 2nd gear and thats all you do all the time then I guess a gt500 will hang a little with it. After a gt500 and c6z06 both get into 3rd gear you would be quite amazed to see what aerodynamics does. Of course yours is a factory freak with a tune and such so you should be good...

I agree with you about the extra weight of the convertible. I have 3.73 gears in mine. SVT Perf. Pkg. Generally, 07-09 vs. 11-12 model years even out in rwhp once tuned etc. The difference would be the 100lbs lost with the aluminum block. As far as 2nd gear pulls.. I agree.. 2nd, 3rd 4th needs to be run to see the true results of the cars in question.
I wouldn't say mine is a factory freak.. the way it was explained to me by the tuner when it dynod stock is the tune is just a little hotter from the factory, but once the pulley/tune were added it would even out... meaning, another GT500 with say 490rwhp instead of 510, would probably gain 80 etc rwhp, instead of the 61 I gained with mine.

This stock Z vs. pully/tune GT500 is all moot anyway, as I will be adding a lower 10% pulley to the mix in a couple of weeks... so probably have another 40rwhp/40ftlb or so.

Either way, I have nothing but respect for the Z06's. Awesome cars. Actually there was a nice C5Z at the gym this morning when I went. Tag read Z YAAAA which I thought was a little overboard, but we both complimented each others cars. Would have been nice to race em, but oh well.

I just look forward to the warmer weather when the fast cars start coming out of hiding in the garages. Win/Lose.. it doesn't matter to me.. it's all fun either way.

In case you were curious, here is the thread with the Turbo Mach I ran:

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/road-kill-drive-thru-34/911567-mach1-vs-12-gt500-video.html

 

[kirks5oh]

So let's make this simple for the sake of argument:

Remove the names of the cars... no more GT500, and no more Z06:

Car A(former Z06) weighs 3200lbs.
Car B(former GT500) weighs 3800lbs.

If car A and car B had the exact same horsepower, car A would win. So, to be able to defeat car A, car B has to overcome the weight deficit, meaning car B needs to increase HP.

Power to weight ratio is where it is at. You have other minor contributors to this when very high speeds come into play such as aerodynamics, but not enough to make the huge difference in a short highway burst.

So, lets say that Car A weighs 3200lbs+200lb driver = 3400lbs.
Let's say Car A put down 450rwhp(Stock Car A)

This is an effective power to weight ratio of 0.1323 horsepower per pound of weight.

Now, let's say Car B weighs 3800lbs+200lb driver = 4000lbs.
Let's say Car B put down 570rwhp

This is an effective power to weight ratio of 0.1425 horsepower per pound of weight.

The larger number is better kiddies.

So my original statement is it takes 100-120rwhp more for the heavier GT500 to overcome the weight deficit with the Z06. A stock Z06 WILL NOT walk a well tuned and pullied Shelby. As long as the Shelby has approx. 120more rwhp, it will be a different outcome, provided both drivers can drive.

I know how much people hate the science, and FACTS stuff.. like mentioned above... but.. Physics is Physics.

Run one, and come back here to post about it. Until then, you can't simply turn this into a power/weight argument. The gearing in the cars is different, and aerodynamics plays a huge role above 100mph. Whatever. You're convinced you can outrun a stock c6z, then so be it. I'm here to tell you I just don't see it happening from a highway roll.

By your math, my gtr makes pretty poor numbers in hp/weight. Physics is physics, right?