Ford EV Frustration

Tezz500 · May 25, 2023

SSSSSSSSSSSSVT said:
Come and take it

You know how they do it right?

You’re not home when they come to take your shit.

They wait for you to leave, pull you over, detain you, and while your handcuffed in the back the the Tahoe/Explorer, they remove all your items listed on the search warrant.

They don’t announce the visit and demand your guns.

There is no “stand off.”

And unless you plan on holding court on the street, you’re going to be cuffed and stuffed while the government robs you of your possessions.

And there ain’t a ****ing thing you can do about it.

DriftwoodSVT · May 25, 2023

Tezz500 said:
You know how they do it right?

You’re not home when they come to take your shit.

They wait for you to leave, pull you over, detain you, and while your handcuffed in the back the the Tahoe/Explorer, they remove all your items listed on the search warrant.

They don’t announce the visit and demand your guns.

There is no “stand off.”

And unless you plan on holding court on the street, you’re going to be cuffed and stuffed while the government robs you of your possessions.

And there ain’t a ****ing thing you can do about it.

Coming to a Dystopian future near you.

Tezz500 · May 25, 2023

DriftwoodSVT said:
Coming to a Dystopian future near you.

Shit… this is the past and present Fren. LOL.

Someone’s just gotta say you did something, might do something, you posted something on FB that was questionable and they coming.

DriftwoodSVT · May 25, 2023

Tezz500 said:
Shit… this is the past and present Fren. LOL.

Someone’s just gotta say you did something, might do something, you posted something on FB that was questionable and they coming.

I'm telling your HOA you've got an oil leak that's bad for the environment.

Tezz500 · May 25, 2023

DriftwoodSVT said:
I'm telling your HOA you've got an oil leak that's bad for the environment.

wizbangdoodle · May 25, 2023

DriftwoodSVT said:
I'm telling your HOA you've got an oil leak that's bad for the environment.

Ha ha, had this happen over 25 years ago. Step-son had a '78 Bronco with a 460. Had a little accident in the driveway and spilled coolant that ran into the street drain. Neighbor lost her shit. Called the city (small town). They came up and shoveled out the catch basin into a backhoe. Then sent us a bill for 2 hours of backhoe work when a wheelbarrow would have sufficed. Told them to stuff the bill.

03cobra#694 · May 25, 2023

wizbangdoodle said:
Ha ha, had this happen over 25 years ago. Step-son had a '78 Bronco with a 460. Had a little accident in the driveway and spilled coolant that ran into the street drain. Neighbor lost her shit. Called the city (small town). They came up and shoveled out the catch basin into a backhoe. Then sent us a bill for 2 hours of backhoe work when a wheelbarrow would have sufficed. Told them to stuff the bill.

Similar story. Years ago I started out running an excavator, and ripped up a huge phone cable (like 2") doing a sewer tap that wasn't buried as low as it should have been. Long story short, the utility came out to fix it and had me dig deeper so the could bury the cable at the right depth. Contractor got a bill for the repair in the thousands, he turned around and sent them a bill for my time of the same amount.

Weather Man · May 27, 2023

So, if the EPA is successful in mandating the new unreachable ICE mileage guides and I have a choice between EV and hydrogen, I guess I'll have a new Toyota. Gonna get crazy after 2028.

A Large Hydrogen Powered V-8 Is In The Works

In exciting news to gearheads everywhere, Toyota has partnered with Yamaha Motor to develop a hydrogen-fueled V-8 engine. In an announcement earlier this year, Yamaha said the 5.0-liter V-8 would be based on the one used by the Lexus RC Coupe, with modifications to its cylinder heads and fuel injectors, among other things. Yamaha claims it'll produce 455 horsepower at 6,800 rpm and 398 pound-feet of torque at 3,600 rpm. That's a bit less power than the original gasoline V-8 that it's based on, but still quite respectable. But the most stunning feature of the hydrogen V-8 has to be the eight-into-one top-mounted exhaust manifold, which Yamaha claims creates a distinct high-frequency sound.

Cobra Jet · May 30, 2023

IMO, anyone who pays Dealer ADM, whether it’s $2k or $10k+ is foolish. Why not just go take that lump and flush it down the toilet or burn it? That’s really what one is doing when paying ANY Dealership ANY ADM.

Is it THAT important to pay ridiculous ADM costs sometimes in excess of $10k, just because it’s a shiny new thing? I mean WTF already.

How about this:
If people would stop being foolish and stop paying any ADM’s (anywhere), the Dealers would be sitting on inventory that is now a liability to them. Because for every day that new shiny thing is on their lot, they’re paying for it, the longer it sits, the more money they lose…. That’s fact.

But here comes Dopey, “awwww shucks, shiny new thing, I gotta have it. What’s that, it’s $20k over MSRP, oh golly, here ya go, gotta have it” (hands over money).

Here’s another thing for those paying ADM on a Ford:
If you EVER have to go through Ford RAV for a Ford Buy Back or a Lemon Law claim, that ADM paid is NOT part of the refund or buy back formula. Know why? Because it was NEVER a line item on the window sticker before final MSRP. The only one who makes out on ADM is the Franchised Dealership collecting the ADM, not Ford. Since ADM is NOT Ford sponsored and is not a line item included on the window sticker before the bottom line MSRP, you’re SOL. You would have to fight with Ford RAV, go back to the selling dealer to try and recoup that ADM OR get a lawyer to help recover that ADM.

Don’t ever pay ADM…. There’s ALWAYS going to be Fords everywhere…. hell, save the depreciation hit and just buy used off the sap who paid new+plus ADM and lost their ass on the trade in.. LMAO.

Lambeau · May 30, 2023

Tezz500 said:
When does the Rainbow EV Raptor launch? Asking for a friend.

13COBRA said:
Fookin never.

Never say never. Ford is 2/3's the way there.

13COBRA · May 30, 2023

Cobra Jet said:
IMO, anyone who pays Dealer ADM, whether it’s $2k or $10k+ is foolish. Why not just go take that lump and flush it down the toilet or burn it? That’s really what one is doing when paying ANY Dealership ANY ADM.

Is it THAT important to pay ridiculous ADM costs sometimes in excess of $10k, just because it’s a shiny new thing? I mean WTF already.

How about this:
If people would stop being foolish and stop paying any ADM’s (anywhere), the Dealers would be sitting on inventory that is now a liability to them. Because for every day that new shiny thing is on their lot, they’re paying for it, the longer it sits, the more money they lose…. That’s fact.

But here comes Dopey, “awwww shucks, shiny new thing, I gotta have it. What’s that, it’s $20k over MSRP, oh golly, here ya go, gotta have it” (hands over money).

Here’s another thing for those paying ADM on a Ford:
If you EVER have to go through Ford RAV for a Ford Buy Back or a Lemon Law claim, that ADM paid is NOT part of the refund or buy back formula. Know why? Because it was NEVER a line item on the window sticker before final MSRP. The only one who makes out on ADM is the Franchised Dealership collecting the ADM, not Ford. Since ADM is NOT Ford sponsored and is not a line item included on the window sticker before the bottom line MSRP, you’re SOL. You would have to fight with Ford RAV, go back to the selling dealer to try and recoup that ADM OR get a lawyer to help recover that ADM.

Don’t ever pay ADM…. There’s ALWAYS going to be Fords everywhere…. hell, save the depreciation hit and just buy used off the sap who paid new+plus ADM and lost their ass on the trade in.. LMAO.

I can tell you feel very strongly about that.

However, the laws of economics dictate the addendums.

Weather Man · May 30, 2023

Cobra Jet said:
IMO, anyone who pays Dealer ADM, whether it’s $2k or $10k+ is foolish. Why not just go take that lump and flush it down the toilet or burn it? That’s really what one is doing when paying ANY Dealership ANY ADM.

Is it THAT important to pay ridiculous ADM costs sometimes in excess of $10k, just because it’s a shiny new thing? I mean WTF already.

How about this:
If people would stop being foolish and stop paying any ADM’s (anywhere), the Dealers would be sitting on inventory that is now a liability to them. Because for every day that new shiny thing is on their lot, they’re paying for it, the longer it sits, the more money they lose…. That’s fact.

But here comes Dopey, “awwww shucks, shiny new thing, I gotta have it. What’s that, it’s $20k over MSRP, oh golly, here ya go, gotta have it” (hands over money).

Here’s another thing for those paying ADM on a Ford:
If you EVER have to go through Ford RAV for a Ford Buy Back or a Lemon Law claim, that ADM paid is NOT part of the refund or buy back formula. Know why? Because it was NEVER a line item on the window sticker before final MSRP. The only one who makes out on ADM is the Franchised Dealership collecting the ADM, not Ford. Since ADM is NOT Ford sponsored and is not a line item included on the window sticker before the bottom line MSRP, you’re SOL. You would have to fight with Ford RAV, go back to the selling dealer to try and recoup that ADM OR get a lawyer to help recover that ADM.

Don’t ever pay ADM…. There’s ALWAYS going to be Fords everywhere…. hell, save the depreciation hit and just buy used off the sap who paid new+plus ADM and lost their ass on the trade in.. LMAO.

The ruthless truth is that people with money will have an ADM car in their garage and the people who don't, or the nickel screamers won't. The Demon170 illustrates this fact perfectly.

Rb0891 · May 30, 2023

Cobra Jet said:
IMO, anyone who pays Dealer ADM, whether it’s $2k or $10k+ is foolish. Why not just go take that lump and flush it down the toilet or burn it? That’s really what one is doing when paying ANY Dealership ANY ADM.

Is it THAT important to pay ridiculous ADM costs sometimes in excess of $10k, just because it’s a shiny new thing? I mean WTF already.

How about this:
If people would stop being foolish and stop paying any ADM’s (anywhere), the Dealers would be sitting on inventory that is now a liability to them. Because for every day that new shiny thing is on their lot, they’re paying for it, the longer it sits, the more money they lose…. That’s fact.

But here comes Dopey, “awwww shucks, shiny new thing, I gotta have it. What’s that, it’s $20k over MSRP, oh golly, here ya go, gotta have it” (hands over money).

Here’s another thing for those paying ADM on a Ford:
If you EVER have to go through Ford RAV for a Ford Buy Back or a Lemon Law claim, that ADM paid is NOT part of the refund or buy back formula. Know why? Because it was NEVER a line item on the window sticker before final MSRP. The only one who makes out on ADM is the Franchised Dealership collecting the ADM, not Ford. Since ADM is NOT Ford sponsored and is not a line item included on the window sticker before the bottom line MSRP, you’re SOL. You would have to fight with Ford RAV, go back to the selling dealer to try and recoup that ADM OR get a lawyer to help recover that ADM.

Don’t ever pay ADM…. There’s ALWAYS going to be Fords everywhere…. hell, save the depreciation hit and just buy used off the sap who paid new+plus ADM and lost their ass on the trade in.. LMAO.

Msrp does not equal value. Value is assigned by what someone will pay. Msrp is really arbitrary.

Many of not most people would think purchasing any of the shit we all have is flushing money down the toilet. Because they do not value it.

Cobra Jet · May 30, 2023

What I am trying to relay is this (maybe Cliff's Notes):
If people would not cave and pay ridiculous ADM up charges, then ADM would wither away. It would do so because then the vehicle would sit there on that Dealer's lot and pretty much "rot" at their ridiculous ADM up charge - and therefore the Dealer would be forced to either lower the ADM to non-existence or sell the damn vehicle @ MSRP because it's costing them $$$ for every day it sits.

I also get the whole "people have money and they'll spend on what they want when they want it", but that very thought process feeds the ADM up charges... because if people are paying it, it will continue.

Why pay in excess of $10k-$20k+ for a brand new vehicle - I mean, if we're going to continue to be fools like that, then why not just convert all Dealerships to an auction platform and everyone can go Barrett style paying whatever they want "because they can"....

LOL

Just saying.... and looking at it from the perspective of why pay ADM when it's definitely not a manufacturer up-charge, where the Manufacturer doesn't even benefit from it - on a vehicle that will soon be a dime a dozen everywhere as the first owner gets sick of it, or the dealer finally lets it go after it didn't sell with an ADM.

I get the whole "gotta have it", but throwing common sense out and not trying to beat the Dealer with ADM is only fueling THEIR fire when people just flake out and pay these exorbitant ADM up charges, because of a gotta have it mentality.

It's kind of like - people complaining about gasoline prices going up $1 a gallon, but they'll throw $10k-$20k out the window "just because"....

13COBRA · May 30, 2023

Cobra Jet said:
What I am trying to relay is this (maybe Cliff's Notes):
If people would not cave and pay ridiculous ADM up charges, then ADM would wither away. It would do so because then the vehicle would sit there on that Dealer's lot and pretty much "rot" at their ridiculous ADM up charge - and therefore the Dealer would be forced to either lower the ADM to non-existence or sell the damn vehicle @ MSRP because it's costing them $$$ for every day it sits.

I also get the whole "people have money and they'll spend on what they want when they want it", but that very thought process feeds the ADM up charges... because if people are paying it, it will continue.

Why pay in excess of $10k-$20k+ for a brand new vehicle - I mean, if we're going to continue to be fools like that, then why not just convert all Dealerships to an auction platform and everyone can go Barrett style paying whatever they want "because they can"....

LOL

Just saying.... and looking at it from the perspective of why pay ADM when it's definitely not a manufacturer up-charge, where the Manufacturer doesn't even benefit from it - on a vehicle that will soon be a dime a dozen everywhere as the first owner gets sick of it, or the dealer finally lets it go after it didn't sell with an ADM.

I get the whole "gotta have it", but throwing common sense out and not trying to beat the Dealer with ADM is only fueling THEIR fire when people just flake out and pay these exorbitant ADM up charges, because of a gotta have it mentality.

It's kind of like - people complaining about gasoline prices going up $1 a gallon, but they'll throw $10k-$20k out the window "just because"....

The price is determined by the relationship of supply and demand. It's simple.

When supply drops, and demand stays the same or increases...prices go up. When supply increases, and demand stays the same or decreases...prices go down.

It's a simple principle.

The "gotta" have it mentality isn't just wanting something. For the past few years there have been TONS of businesses that NEED Super Duties and will pay what it takes to get them. Same with Transit vans.

If you need something, you need something. Imagine taking a road trip across the USA. You make it to the East Plains of Colorado, and run out of gas on I-70. There is a TON of traffic on I-70 (Demand), there is a limited amount of fuel (supply). I can assure you, you would pay whatever that gas station is asking for fuel, even if it doesn't make financial sense...because it sure beats being stuck in the middle of nowhere with no ability to leave.

But throwing your sense of the argument at it...you should wait it out until you're not in peak season travel and capitalize when fuel prices decrease to a normal level.

wizbangdoodle · May 30, 2023

Besides, buying a vehicle is almost always a losing proposition. No matter whether you pay MSRP, or adm or even get a great deal and buy under MSRP, 6 months down the road, that vehicle has lost value. Doesn't matter what the starting number is, you're going to lose money when you buy a vehicle.

13COBRA · May 30, 2023

wizbangdoodle said:
Besides, buying a vehicle is almost always a losing proposition. No matter whether you pay MSRP, or adm or even get a great deal and buy under MSRP, 6 months down the road, that vehicle has lost value. Doesn't matter what the starting number is, you're going to lose money when you buy a vehicle.

Not necessarily lost value...just moved value.

Rather than having a vehicle worth $50,000. You now have a vehicle worth $45,000 and you had $5,000 worth of transportation value.

5.0 Hatch · May 30, 2023

13COBRA said:
If you need something, you need something. Imagine taking a road trip across the USA. You make it to the East Plains of Colorado, and run out of gas on I-70. There is a TON of traffic on I-70 (Demand), there is a limited amount of fuel (supply). I can assure you, you would pay whatever that gas station is asking for fuel, even if it doesn't make financial sense...because it sure beats being stuck in the middle of nowhere with no ability to leave.

But throwing your sense of the argument at it...you should wait it out until you're not in peak season travel and capitalize when fuel prices decrease to a normal level.

Out of curiosity, what "type" of customers generally pay markup at your location? Maybe I'm the minority but I went private party just to get around the added fees (Mats, nitrogen, tint, ect.) on used cars at the dealer.

13COBRA · May 30, 2023

5.0 Hatch said:
Out of curiosity, what "type" of customers generally pay markup at your location? Maybe I'm the minority but I went private party just to get around the added fees (Mats, nitrogen, tint, ect.) on used cars at the dealer.

1. I don't charge addendums on anything I have.
2. I don't pre-package accessories (mats, nitrogen, tint, bedliner, security, etc).
3. I have customers every day reaching out to me offering to pay over MSRP if I can get them the vehicles they want. I purchased a lot of Super Duties last year for customers that paid anywhere from $5-25k over MSRP, depending on whatever it took to buy it. I charged $500 per vehicle. I've done the same thing with GT350s, GT500s, etc.
4. The people I see that makes those offers really need/want the vehicles and the money doesn't matter so much.

5.0 Hatch · May 30, 2023

13COBRA said:
1. I don't charge addendums on anything I have.
2. I don't pre-package accessories (mats, nitrogen, tint, bedliner, security, etc).
3. I have customers every day reaching out to me offering to pay over MSRP if I can get them the vehicles they want. I purchased a lot of Super Duties last year for customers that paid anywhere from $5-25k over MSRP, depending on whatever it took to buy it. I charged $500 per vehicle. I've done the same thing with GT350s, GT500s, etc.
4. The people I see that makes those offers really need/want the vehicles and the money doesn't matter so much.

That's great to hear. I hope your customers remember that for their next purchase! The dealers in my area appear not to care about burning bridges for future purchases.

Ford EV Frustration

Do you like how Ford is forcing dealers to advertise EVs at MSRP?

Yes

No

Ford should limit to advertising at or BELOW MSRP

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

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