COVID cops

musclefan21 said:

And your point is, cops are hated because they enforce the laws their states written and hired them to enforce?

and let’s say for a split second you are right, why would people hate the cops for it? They didn’t write those laws.

Are you suggesting police officers not to do their jobs? Help me understand your point there please.

as for your money comment, cops don’t think generating revenue. They don’t see that end of the operation. That’s the politics of it all and have nothing to do with cops

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While I do not share the disdain for cops as some have expressed here, I think the answer to your question is pretty easy to ascertain. I have personally witnessed officers with clear power trips. Whether they are in the right or not with enforcing the law, the way they come across is what matters.

Those who are career criminals will not like police no matter how polite they are but for the average person, the way they are treated is what shapes their view of the police. When those entrusted with authority lord it over you or exert dominance over small infractions of the law, it doesnt take a large leap of logic to understand why people wouldnt like that.

I get that it is tough to be a cop and Im sure they have to put up with a lot. But its clear some take a heavy handed approach with all interactions instead of just the most serious.

Trust is built when you view police as those there to help you, not those out to get you. The latter is too often the method chosen, even by well meaning cops. Perhaps if the officer in this scenario had just said something along the lines of, "I know it wasn't much over the speed limit but be careful out there. I wouldnt want you or someone else to get hurt due to your speed."

Something like that shows concern for the driver being stopped and other people. It gets the point across that speed can cause accidents but the officer wouldnt be talking down to him.

Klay said:

While I do not share the disdain for cops as some have expressed here, I think the answer to your question is pretty easy to ascertain. I have personally witnessed officers with clear power trips. Whether they are in the right or not with enforcing the law, the way they come across is what matters.

Those who are career criminals will not like police no matter how polite they are but for the average person, the way they are treated is what shapes their view of the police. When those entrusted with authority lord it over you or exert dominance over small infractions of the law, it doesnt take a large leap of logic to understand why people wouldnt like that.

I get that it is tough to be a cop and Im sure they have to put up with a lot. But its clear some take a heavy handed approach with all interactions instead of just the most serious.

Trust is built when you view police as those there to help you, not those out to get you. The latter is too often the method chosen, even by well meaning cops. Perhaps if the officer in this scenario had just said something along the lines of, "I know it wasn't much over the speed limit but be careful out there. I wouldnt want you or someone else to get hurt due to your speed."

Something like that shows concern for the driver being stopped and other people. It gets the point across that speed can cause accidents but the officer wouldnt be talking down to him.

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I appreciate your input and perspective on this and I highly recommend you to go on a ride along with a police agency. I actually have always recommended everyone who just hated cops or just automatically assumed it was the cops that just stirred the pot, to go on a ride along with police agencies.

this whole power trip thing happens of course, I have personally seen it and nobody is perfect and some are in it for the wrong reasons, however, it’s more rare than one can think.

And you don’t know how this officer in this case actually acted. One thing I have learned over the years is, people love exaggerating stories to just make themselves feel good.

we have seen plenty of accusations of rude or racists cops and when the dash cam or body cam footage came out, it was shown otherwise.

if we are going to talk about rude cops who are on a power trip, I am all up for discussion and am on your side, but more often than not it is not the case.

jshen said:

I an all my years as a LEO I never saw an officer throw a license back at a driver....Now days most officers have body cams and car video cams...

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For good reason. Not uncommon for people questioned by cops to exaggerate an officer's actions, even to the point of outright lying or grossly exaggerating. I see it all the time on Live PD. My favorite show.

CobraBob said:

For good reason. Not uncommon for people questioned by cops to exaggerate an officer's actions, even to the point of outright lying or grossly exaggerating. I see it all the time on Live PD. My favorite show.

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True story: back when I was a cop, a wanted guy, gang banger, violent guy, jumped from 2nd floor to escape, but I was rear perimeter, so I was right on him. As he landed, he kneed himself hard and knocked his teeth loose and busted his lips. It was a hard landing. I jumped right on him and he started to resist to get away. I balled up my fist to get ready and deliver a punch, he yelled “okay okay, I give up”. I told him the turn around and he did and I cuffed him up. Never touched this guy, not even a scuffle. I get him up and walking him to the squad car, bunch of people out watching and my supervisor there as well, and this guy bleeding pretty good from his mouth. He starts yelling at the crowd of people “this dude just beat me up. He just beat me up for nothing, cuffed me up and beat me up” then looked at my supervisor and was like “Sgt your guy just beat me up for nothing”.

folks, people make stuff up out of thin air like this, so what makes you think people don’t pump up their stories? They do!

musclefan21 said:

And your point is, cops are hated because they enforce the laws their states written and hired them to enforce?

and let’s say for a split second you are right, why would people hate the cops for it? They didn’t write those laws.

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of course the cop just does his job and the great majority of them think they're doing a great thing. but thinking you're doing a good thing and actually doing a good thing are quite different right?

people elect politicians, politicians hire officials, and officials execute orders. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance to those who are harmed by the ordinance.

cops are sent to patrol for crimes and potential crimes even though they have no legal responsibility to prevent crime at all.

the issue I have with most LEO's is when they choose to enforce statutes which harm people and with unions, the fraternal order of cops, all of that there is massive pressure to toe the line. the best you can expect is a cop to be cool when nobody is looking cause they got mouths to feed. at the end of the day its by and large about going home safe and earning a paycheck which is what they are TRAINED to do.

toe the line, go home safe, and enjoy your life you hero.

but that's just conditioning.

Are you suggesting police officers not to do their jobs? Help me understand your point there please.

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This would immediately rectify the problem but the result would be the cop suffering at the hands of those in authority over them or even risk losing their jobs.

as for your money comment, cops don’t think generating revenue. They don’t see that end of the operation. That’s the politics of it all and have nothing to do with cops

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they don't need to. like i said, most cops have no axe to grind, and are just a cog in the machine. they have performance reviews like EVERY profession. what if all his arrests are down and he's writing half the tickets as the year before?

do you think his boss is going to think he's serving his community well or that he's sleeping under overpasses?

i've heard actual stories from actual former cops who actually got reprimanded because they engaged with the communities on their beat to help people out and shepherd them well. resulted in less crime, less arrests, and better community... but the numbers took a hit... so the guy got shit for it.

nobody wants to go to work and get shit for it. so the good cops quit. same story with public school and most of the really great teachers. the incentive to stick around just isn't there.

because this is not the role of government. punish evil, reward good, not charge people with precrime.

Makobra said:

of course the cop just does his job and the great majority of them think they're doing a great thing. but thinking you're doing a good thing and actually doing a good thing are quite different right?

people elect politicians, politicians hire officials, and officials execute orders. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance to those who are harmed by the ordinance.

cops are sent to patrol for crimes and potential crimes even though they have no legal responsibility to prevent crime at all.

the issue I have with most LEO's is when they choose to enforce statutes which harm people and with unions, the fraternal order of cops, all of that there is massive pressure to toe the line. the best you can expect is a cop to be cool when nobody is looking cause they got mouths to feed. at the end of the day its by and large about going home safe and earning a paycheck which is what they are TRAINED to do.

toe the line, go home safe, and enjoy your life you hero.

but that's just conditioning.



This would immediately rectify the problem but the result would be the cop suffering at the hands of those in authority over them or even risk losing their jobs.



they don't need to. like i said, most cops have no axe to grind, and are just a cog in the machine. they have performance reviews like EVERY profession. what if all his arrests are down and he's writing half the tickets as the year before?

do you think his boss is going to think he's serving his community well or that he's sleeping under overpasses?

i've heard actual stories from actual former cops who actually got reprimanded because they engaged with the communities on their beat to help people out and shepherd them well. resulted in less crime, less arrests, and better community... but the numbers took a hit... so the guy got shit for it.

nobody wants to go to work and get shit for it. so the good cops quit. same story with public school and most of the really great teachers. the incentive to stick around just isn't there.

because this is not the role of government. punish evil, reward good, not charge people with precrime.

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Your entire post is pure politics as it sounds. You don’t like the system, do something about it, get it changed.
Tell me What’s your problem with cops? They choose to enforce statutes which harms people? That’s a pretty relative term there my friend. A statute from your view may harm a public may not be a harmful statute in the eyes of another. Just because you don’t agree with someone or something doesn’t make that wrong.

I can’t count the times when I was driving to Ft Lauderdale, leaving at 5 am,
setting my cruise at 82 ( speed limit 70) in the fast lane, moving over
and getting passed by troopers going 85.
I also have a situation just like the OP’s


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musclefan21 said:

Your entire post is pure politics as it sounds. You don’t like the system, do something about it, get it changed.

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then you're biased because statistically almost nobody in politics says what I'm saying.

Remember when i said this?

"people elect politicians, politicians hire officials, and officials execute orders. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance to those who are harmed by the ordinance."

You're stuck in step 1 telling the guy at step 3 to go back to step 1 to fix step 3. every single time you do this you undermine your efforts to gain sympathy for cops. two reasons for that:

1. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance because he still CHOOSES to enforce it
2. overcoming step 1 is quite literally millions of times more difficult than a cop simply choosing to ignore a shitty rule because you have to convince other people to VOTE for the government to roll back power. in cases where its been PROVEN that legislation KILLS people the states still reenact laws that kill people. WHY? its the trade of liberty for the promise of security.

Montana paradox. look it up.

Tell me What’s your problem with cops? They choose to enforce statutes which harms people? That’s a pretty relative term there my friend. A statute from your view may harm a public may not be a harmful statute in the eyes of another. Just because you don’t agree with someone or something doesn’t make that wrong.

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which is why i try my very best to hold to an objective standard rather than my own personal whims.

I guess everyone has a cop story.

I golf a lot with a cop. Great guy and really good golfer. One day five of us are warming up on the first tee which sits alongside our entry road and the pro shop. Suddenly a cop Harley purrs up our drive past us, pulls a U-turn and parks at the curb near the back of the box. Black tees. Man zone.

Everyone is really tense. Someone's in trouble for sure. Our cop buddy tells everyone to relax and quit acting guilty.

We become aware that the officer is female and, as much as can be told from the uniform, a damn fine one at that. Now we are really afraid.

She unbuckles her helmet and wrestles it off. A cascade of long blond hair gushes out and spills over her shoulders. No kidding, she looked amazing as she hopped up the stone wall onto the tee box and moved towards us.

We are simultaneously terrified and transfixed. Some wise-ass mutters, "Strip-o-gram?" under his breath. Everyone glares at him and gives him the STFU look. Is he begging to get jammed up? Geez...what a dope.

Anyway, it turned out it was our buddy's wife. She had just switched to motorcycle duty for the summer and loved it. All she wanted was to hand her husband something he had forgotten when he left home. She chatted awhile and explained why the older Harleys were so much better than the newer, lighter BMW's and other important stuff like that.

I have never appreciated law enforcement as much as I did that day and I'll remember it forever. I just wish I had known it was his wife and had kept the strip comment to myself.

Makobra said:

then you're biased because statistically almost nobody in politics says what I'm saying.

Remember when i said this?

"people elect politicians, politicians hire officials, and officials execute orders. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance to those who are harmed by the ordinance."

You're stuck in step 1 telling the guy at step 3 to go back to step 1 to fix step 3. every single time you do this you undermine your efforts to gain sympathy for cops. two reasons for that:

1. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance because he still CHOOSES to enforce it
2. overcoming step 1 is quite literally millions of times more difficult than a cop simply choosing to ignore a shitty rule because you have to convince other people to VOTE for the government to roll back power. in cases where its been PROVEN that legislation KILLS people the states still reenact laws that kill people. WHY? its the trade of liberty for the promise of security.

Montana paradox. look it up.



which is why i try my very best to hold to an objective standard rather than my own personal whims.

Click to expand...

Makobra said:

then you're biased because statistically almost nobody in politics says what I'm saying.

Remember when i said this?

"people elect politicians, politicians hire officials, and officials execute orders. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance to those who are harmed by the ordinance."

You're stuck in step 1 telling the guy at step 3 to go back to step 1 to fix step 3. every single time you do this you undermine your efforts to gain sympathy for cops. two reasons for that:

1. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance because he still CHOOSES to enforce it
2. overcoming step 1 is quite literally millions of times more difficult than a cop simply choosing to ignore a shitty rule because you have to convince other people to VOTE for the government to roll back power. in cases where its been PROVEN that legislation KILLS people the states still reenact laws that kill people. WHY? its the trade of liberty for the promise of security.

Montana paradox. look it up.



which is why i try my very best to hold to an objective standard rather than my own personal whims.

Click to expand...

Makobra said:

then you're biased because statistically almost nobody in politics says what I'm saying.

Remember when i said this?

"people elect politicians, politicians hire officials, and officials execute orders. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance to those who are harmed by the ordinance."

You're stuck in step 1 telling the guy at step 3 to go back to step 1 to fix step 3. every single time you do this you undermine your efforts to gain sympathy for cops. two reasons for that:

1. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance because he still CHOOSES to enforce it
2. overcoming step 1 is quite literally millions of times more difficult than a cop simply choosing to ignore a shitty rule because you have to convince other people to VOTE for the government to roll back power. in cases where its been PROVEN that legislation KILLS people the states still reenact laws that kill people. WHY? its the trade of liberty for the promise of security.

Montana paradox. look it up.



which is why i try my very best to hold to an objective standard rather than my own personal whims.

Click to expand...

Makobra said:

then you're biased because statistically almost nobody in politics says what I'm saying.

Remember when i said this?

"people elect politicians, politicians hire officials, and officials execute orders. the squeaky wheel gets the grease. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance to those who are harmed by the ordinance."

You're stuck in step 1 telling the guy at step 3 to go back to step 1 to fix step 3. every single time you do this you undermine your efforts to gain sympathy for cops. two reasons for that:

1. it doesn't matter that the cop didn't write the ordinance because he still CHOOSES to enforce it
2. overcoming step 1 is quite literally millions of times more difficult than a cop simply choosing to ignore a shitty rule because you have to convince other people to VOTE for the government to roll back power. in cases where its been PROVEN that legislation KILLS people the states still reenact laws that kill people. WHY? its the trade of liberty for the promise of security.

Montana paradox. look it up.



which is why i try my very best to hold to an objective standard rather than my own personal whims.

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I recommend your issues to your legislators to change things if you truly believe them they are right.

I can’t personally agree with anything you said above. Let’s leave it at that.

musclefan21 said:

True story: back when I was a cop, a wanted guy, gang banger, violent guy, jumped from 2nd floor to escape, but I was rear perimeter, so I was right on him. As he landed, he kneed himself hard and knocked his teeth loose and busted his lips. It was a hard landing. I jumped right on him and he started to resist to get away. I balled up my fist to get ready and deliver a punch, he yelled “okay okay, I give up”. I told him the turn around and he did and I cuffed him up. Never touched this guy, not even a scuffle. I get him up and walking him to the squad car, bunch of people out watching and my supervisor there as well, and this guy bleeding pretty good from his mouth. He starts yelling at the crowd of people “this dude just beat me up. He just beat me up for nothing, cuffed me up and beat me up” then looked at my supervisor and was like “Sgt your guy just beat me up for nothing”.

folks, people make stuff up out of thin air like this, so what makes you think people don’t pump up their stories? They do!

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when did you leave the job?

My cop friends tell me they aren’t pulling anyone over unless they run the plate and someone has warrants.


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BlckBox04 said:

when did you leave the job?

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Local PD work, 3 years ago. I had fun and learned a lot.

musclefan21 said:

I jumped right on him and he started to resist to get away. I balled up my fist to get ready and deliver a punch, he yelled “okay okay, I give up”. I told him the turn around and he did and I cuffed him up. Never touched this guy, not even a scuffle.

folks, people make stuff up out of thin air like this, so what makes you think people don’t pump up their stories? They do!

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you say people make stuff out of thin air..yet in your post... you say

1. you jumped on him and he resisted you

then

2. “ I did not touch the guy not even a scuffle”

so did you or did you not jump on him...

And if you “ did not touch him” how did he resist arrest after you jumped on him.


Seems a certain part of YOUR story Isnt making sense...

CompOrange04GT said:

you say people make stuff out of thin air..yet in your post... you say

1. you jumped on him and he resisted you

then

2. “ I did not touch the guy not even a scuffle”

so did you or did you not jump on him...

And if you “ did not touch him” how did he resist arrest after you jumped on him.


Seems a certain part of YOUR story Isnt making sense...

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Story makes perfect sense sir, you just lack the understanding.

You failed to see the point of that story is which was clearly outlined; he busted his own mouth with his knee, he received no strikes of any kind from me, he blamed his busted mouth on me. Anyways, I won’t be going down to that rabbit hole with you. Think what you want

musclefan21 said:

Story makes perfect sense sir, you just lack the understanding.

You failed to see the point of that story is which was clearly outlined; he busted his own mouth with his knee, he received no strikes of any kind from me, he blamed his busted mouth on me. Anyways, I won’t be going down to that rabbit hole with you. Think what you want

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yeah everybody else is wrong. it can't possibly be that you're defending an institution that you support because you were once part of it and thusly see it as being a part of you which would perfectly explain your defense of this thing as if it is an attack on you personally.

I gave you good reasons and instead of engaging you basically said "nah bro" and you wonder why people hate cops?

because it isn't a hard job.
because most of them are overpaid.
because we have too many of them.

because guys like you that would rather tell people what they think than listen and understand get shiny badges and guns not because you want to serve but because you want to get something or be a part of something bigger because at bottom you are simply a needy little man.

if you run into an asshole in the morning you ran into an asshole.
if you come across them all day YOU'RE the asshole.

Hmmm....

Makobra said:

because it isn't a hard job.
because most of them are overpaid.
because we have too many of them.

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for the sake of knowledge alone in response to these statements, you really should try applying and see what the actual process of getting hired by a department is like.

Makobra said:

because it isn't a hard job.
because most of them are overpaid.
because we have too many of them.

if you run into an asshole in the morning you ran into an asshole.
if you come across them all day YOU'RE the asshole.

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okay you are getting upset, we will leave this as that. You should really go do a ride along and confirm or deny those statements you made about a job which you have never done.

and I agree with your last St statement. If you come across as asshole to everyone, you probably are being one. The thing is, how do you know these officers are coming across as asshole to everyone. Have you done a study with people he or she interacted with?

anyways, seriously, do a ride along. If you truly want to have an unbiased, objective understanding of something, you should study both side and ride along with be a fantastic way to start that.

Klaus said:

There are no cars on the road where I am at but Troopers are at full employment so they have nothing to do but dumb shit like this.

I was in a 2017 four runner.

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More like a 54 runner