Kenneth Copeland is possessed... LOL
- Thread starter HISSMAN
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I have a hard time understanding why TV preachers need 65 million dollars jets to do the Lords work, they want us to send them our money to heal our bodies and minds and protect us from evil. The funny part is that Satan has never asked anyone for a dime.
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Prosperity preachers. They preach and sell lies. Creflo Dollar is included in that group.
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Satan would much rather have yer soul.
I always laugh at people who buy into these televangelists.
I am not advocating for satan, I am only pointing out the irony of TV evangalists constantly begging for money in the name of the Lord. On the other hand I was raised as a Pentecost and the eventual disposition of my soul has been the topic of several conversations.
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Smooth nailed it - that guy looks like an animated corpse, and an ugly one at that. Might even be some sort of shell an alien lives inside like in Men In Black.
Francis Chan, Craig Groeschel, Andy Stanley, Steven Furtick, and many other pastors with large churches are sincere. Sadly it only takes a few idiots to give the majority a bad name.
There are a lot of good pastors and preachers out there with a good heart. Some are dirt poor, and others afford a good life. Those that do have material possessions are generally not concerned about "stuff". They realize that money, houses, cars, etc can be gone in an instant. None of the "stuff" is why we preach.
For the few apostate morons that do profit off of the ones they preach to could care less about the people. Many money grabbers and charlatans have been mentioned already. Those people infuriate me. Don't even get me started on those that have healing services. I believe miracles happen. I know people are healed. I know people that were mysteriously healed, but there wasn't a show. They didn't fall down, flail on the ground, scream, and make fools of themselves while mocking God's ability to truly perform miracles. Those that I know were as stunned and clueless as the doctors treating them. Their reaction was a sincere praise that usually had quiet tears of joy.
Most people that know me, know that I'm an ordained pastor. I generally don't make it known though. I hate the negative stereotype that comes with the title. I'm me, and I'm not going to stop being me. God called a misfit like me to reach out to misfits like me. I don't use a title ton try and laud over others. Pastor means shepherd, not dictator. It means leader, not liar. I understand failure and redemption. I have failed a lot. My failures are my fault, but my redemption is by Christ alone. Too many pastors forget that they are sinners too.
I remember when Joel Osteen seemed sincere. There are a few others I will leave unmentioned also. Hopefully they will see their mistakes and turn around.
This thread has me on a rant.
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That’s a strange cat for sure and I agree the excess he lives in is off-putting.
However, I don’t understand why people hate the guy (or any preacher) for having money. I don’t believe God wants us to live in poverty.
Maybe I just don’t know enough about him.
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However, I don’t understand why people hate the guy (or any preacher) for having money. I don’t believe God wants us to live in poverty.
Maybe I just don’t know enough about him.
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One of my favorite movies is Leap of Faith.
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While I'm ranting, I will get this out of the way. Money has been mentioned over and over again in this thread. It has been mentioned for good reason, there are corrupt organizations and pastors that are taking advantage of people. I tend to call these churches Pharisee churches. They are hypocrites. Jesus called the Pharisees snakes and vipers. Jesus had no problem calling out the religious leaders that were misleading the people. The Pharisees kept adding more and more laws to what God gave. The leaders were overbearing, and they were money hungry.
Jesus did not approve of the abuse of power and money 2000 years ago, and He doesn't approve of it now. I wonder how many churches would be turned upside down as He emptied their bank accounts due to misuse and misrepresentation?
Some are blind, and they actually think they are doing what is right. They have been mislead, and continue to teach the same misinformed message. I feel sorry for these people. I was one for a short while. Now most Southern Baptist churches think I am a heathen. Maybe I am. The last time I checked John the Baptist didn't confirm to the traditions of the hypocrites in the city. I'm not here to please anyone. My calling didn't come from a man, men simply acknowledged the calling. I was called to preach by God, and I have to answer for my actions and words. When I teach or preach, I know that I am accountable. I also know that I screw up a lot. I don't deserve the title of pastor. Very few really do.
Back to money, and then to megachurches. Churches need money. Even Jesus had an accountant. Judas was greedy and paid the ultimate price for his greed, but he was the treasurer of the group.
Churches do have to operate as a business in many aspects. Being nonprofit does not mean no profit. A 501C3 nonprofit organization does not have inventory. What is sold (if anything is sold such as a fund raiser) is considered a donation. Also, every dime donated can be a tax write off.
Depending on the church, and the size of the church, there are people on staff. Many work full time. These people deserve a salary, just as people working at any other nonprofit organization. Yes, there are a lot of volunteers, but volunteers cannot do everything, and today's world doesn't come free. Living is expensive.
Don't forget the electric bill, water, sewage, and so on. None of that is free. It has to be paid for in some way. The same goes for maintenance; it takes donations to keep the church building open.
What about those megachurches? What about places like Elevation, North Point, etc? Those churches serve a purpose. The last thing I want to do is attend church and be bored. Bored people retain nothing. Bored people watch the clock and wonder what is for lunch. A contemporary church is nothing more than a relevant church within its culture or niche. These large churches are able to seat more people, offer more help, and do more for the community than a small congregation. There are some that are all show, but not all. Me personally, I enjoy a live band, full stage presentation, and everything one would expect at a concert. This is my preference, and it appeals to people that would avoid church otherwise. I don't want to dress up and see who has the best suit on Sunday. I attend church in jeans, and sometimes in shorts. I enjoy my cup of coffee while listening to a message, and I like the ability to quickly reference scripture as it is shown on multiple screens. I can even go home and watch the message again and critique it (pastors love that).
I'm not knocking the small congregation. These family churches hold a lot of meaning to people. They are close knit, and many are genuine. They are made up of a congregation of hard working people that give what they can. However, I will say that there are many corrupt small churches out there though. I am about two miles from one of the most corrupt pastors I know.
I'm not defending the Pharisees and apostates, but I am saying that there are some pastors out there with genuine hearts that want to serve God. Don't judge all because of a few.
Most people have no idea that Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback, and author of many books, donates his entire salary back to the church. He lives off of his book sales, and tithes a huge portion of that as well. He isn't perfect by any means, but that is impressive.
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Jesus did not approve of the abuse of power and money 2000 years ago, and He doesn't approve of it now. I wonder how many churches would be turned upside down as He emptied their bank accounts due to misuse and misrepresentation?
Some are blind, and they actually think they are doing what is right. They have been mislead, and continue to teach the same misinformed message. I feel sorry for these people. I was one for a short while. Now most Southern Baptist churches think I am a heathen. Maybe I am. The last time I checked John the Baptist didn't confirm to the traditions of the hypocrites in the city. I'm not here to please anyone. My calling didn't come from a man, men simply acknowledged the calling. I was called to preach by God, and I have to answer for my actions and words. When I teach or preach, I know that I am accountable. I also know that I screw up a lot. I don't deserve the title of pastor. Very few really do.
Back to money, and then to megachurches. Churches need money. Even Jesus had an accountant. Judas was greedy and paid the ultimate price for his greed, but he was the treasurer of the group.
Churches do have to operate as a business in many aspects. Being nonprofit does not mean no profit. A 501C3 nonprofit organization does not have inventory. What is sold (if anything is sold such as a fund raiser) is considered a donation. Also, every dime donated can be a tax write off.
Depending on the church, and the size of the church, there are people on staff. Many work full time. These people deserve a salary, just as people working at any other nonprofit organization. Yes, there are a lot of volunteers, but volunteers cannot do everything, and today's world doesn't come free. Living is expensive.
Don't forget the electric bill, water, sewage, and so on. None of that is free. It has to be paid for in some way. The same goes for maintenance; it takes donations to keep the church building open.
What about those megachurches? What about places like Elevation, North Point, etc? Those churches serve a purpose. The last thing I want to do is attend church and be bored. Bored people retain nothing. Bored people watch the clock and wonder what is for lunch. A contemporary church is nothing more than a relevant church within its culture or niche. These large churches are able to seat more people, offer more help, and do more for the community than a small congregation. There are some that are all show, but not all. Me personally, I enjoy a live band, full stage presentation, and everything one would expect at a concert. This is my preference, and it appeals to people that would avoid church otherwise. I don't want to dress up and see who has the best suit on Sunday. I attend church in jeans, and sometimes in shorts. I enjoy my cup of coffee while listening to a message, and I like the ability to quickly reference scripture as it is shown on multiple screens. I can even go home and watch the message again and critique it (pastors love that).
I'm not knocking the small congregation. These family churches hold a lot of meaning to people. They are close knit, and many are genuine. They are made up of a congregation of hard working people that give what they can. However, I will say that there are many corrupt small churches out there though. I am about two miles from one of the most corrupt pastors I know.
I'm not defending the Pharisees and apostates, but I am saying that there are some pastors out there with genuine hearts that want to serve God. Don't judge all because of a few.
Most people have no idea that Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback, and author of many books, donates his entire salary back to the church. He lives off of his book sales, and tithes a huge portion of that as well. He isn't perfect by any means, but that is impressive.
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Eh, not my place to say what these men are and aren't. I'm of course skeptical of many of them for clear reasons obviously, but I dont feel I can say what they are and what they aren't. I just know that if they are con artists then they are going to pay a huge price when it is all said and done. Even if they are Christians that have been caught up in the money and lavish lifestyles, they will have to account for these things before God. As far as I know, God may be using them still to reach the masses to spread the gospel. God doesn't care about the money or the airplanes, but He cares that the world is hearing about how Jesus died on the cross for their sins. He can turn any perversion by one into a blessing for many, even if the message is fake. So I would say look at it from that perspective and just know that if these preachers are not sincere in what they are doing that they will be punished when their day comes.
And as for tongues, falling out, uncontrollable laughing, etc... all things you will experience in a true revival or in a place that the Holy Spirit is in. You walk in the door and you can feel the weight of the Spirit in the room and from there anything can happen. I've been in churches and meetings with less than 50 people there and the evangelist speaking carries the presence of the Holy Spirit with them, and because if that I have seen the entire crowd of people fall over as you feel the warm wave of the Spirit pass over the room.
I had a friend who wasn't a Christian ask to come to church with us once and this church was in a revival. He had no idea what was going on and was just observing when the pastor walked by him and put his hand on his head as he was walking through the crowd and my friend fell out and was on the floor for a good minute before he could get up and when he did he was crying and scared about what had happened. It was actually too much for him as he has not stepped foot back in a church some 20 years later as it legitimately scared him. Regardless of what happened to him I'm sure God left an impression on him that will come back someday and he will be saved eventually. It's all real and if you ever set foot in a church with the Spirit of the Lord present you will know, and it is impossible for the feeling to be artificially fabricated.
And as for tongues, falling out, uncontrollable laughing, etc... all things you will experience in a true revival or in a place that the Holy Spirit is in. You walk in the door and you can feel the weight of the Spirit in the room and from there anything can happen. I've been in churches and meetings with less than 50 people there and the evangelist speaking carries the presence of the Holy Spirit with them, and because if that I have seen the entire crowd of people fall over as you feel the warm wave of the Spirit pass over the room.
I had a friend who wasn't a Christian ask to come to church with us once and this church was in a revival. He had no idea what was going on and was just observing when the pastor walked by him and put his hand on his head as he was walking through the crowd and my friend fell out and was on the floor for a good minute before he could get up and when he did he was crying and scared about what had happened. It was actually too much for him as he has not stepped foot back in a church some 20 years later as it legitimately scared him. Regardless of what happened to him I'm sure God left an impression on him that will come back someday and he will be saved eventually. It's all real and if you ever set foot in a church with the Spirit of the Lord present you will know, and it is impossible for the feeling to be artificially fabricated.
I really don't care what that guy does for a living. He comes across as rather creepy and a bit unstable. It wasn't really fair to pin him down like that but he sure showed his true colors while under some pretty light duress. His responses wreaked of fraud and insecurity.
I’m gonna be honest with you all.... I kinda like how much of a crazy **** this guy is.... I’m digging his style.
if other people are stupid enough to give him their money, then **** it... that’s on them.
He offers a “service” and they eat it up!
I personally think it is fine to be a wealthy preacher, so long as you are doing what God called you to do. The bible talks about blessings in many different places and quite a few people in the bible who are revered were extremely wealthy.
However, the problem with the prosperity gospel is it only teaches the blessings. The bible is clear that persecution will come. We will have hardships, not just blessings. We don't serve the God of mammon or money. We shouldn't put our faith in our wealth. Often times though, those that are wealthy stop being dependent on God and instead depend only on themselves. That is where the problem lies.
I don't have an opinion of Kenneth Copeland because I do not know him well enough. It is important if you are a Christian to not sit and judge other Christians without knowing the full story. Especially in front of unbelievers.
However, the problem with the prosperity gospel is it only teaches the blessings. The bible is clear that persecution will come. We will have hardships, not just blessings. We don't serve the God of mammon or money. We shouldn't put our faith in our wealth. Often times though, those that are wealthy stop being dependent on God and instead depend only on themselves. That is where the problem lies.
I don't have an opinion of Kenneth Copeland because I do not know him well enough. It is important if you are a Christian to not sit and judge other Christians without knowing the full story. Especially in front of unbelievers.
"Just because it's a non-profit organization doesn't mean that they can't pay their people ridiculous salaries."
Applies to churches, activist groups, cancer "awareness" foundations, etc...
...and Maximus said to Commodus, "the time for honoring yourself will soon come to an end."
Applies to churches, activist groups, cancer "awareness" foundations, etc...
...and Maximus said to Commodus, "the time for honoring yourself will soon come to an end."
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