With a Boss Iron Block.....trapping 128+MPH all motor.....do the math! ;-)
01 Cobra Vs. 03/04 Mach 1
- Thread starter zPipes
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With a Boss Iron Block.....trapping 128+MPH all motor.....do the math! ;-)
I don't get it. Are you saying you can't get any more weight out of the car?
Yes, I can...but, my car IS a daily driver. That means, that I like my creature conforts LOL! AC, nice stereo, seats, etc.
Keep in mind that I have a 6 point cage on the car (I dont belive that Bill's car has one..at least until a few months back), a fire suppresion kit, and few other "extra weight" items.
I could remove a bunch of stuff, but why? Car runs 9s @ hauling ass MPH (for a street car) on a little (-read: reliable) nitrous shoot, and runs 10s all day long @ good MPH for full weight all motor car with no drama and kills just about anything on the streets.
I was not hating on Bill's car, my intitial point was that comparing his Cobra vs. his Mach is like apples to oranges. His Mach is/has been much modded than this Cobra ever was.
Naz
If I may add....
Boss Block = ~80LBS Extra
6 Point Cage = ~80LBS Extra
_________________________
Total = ~160LBS Extra
Now, my race weight is = 3350LBS
Substract the ...............~160LBS
_____________________________
No Cage/Aluminum Block = ~3190LBS
Which, when I had the Big Bore motor, and no cage and fire suppresion I was at one time at 3170LBS....which makes sense.
Naz
Boss Block = ~80LBS Extra
6 Point Cage = ~80LBS Extra
_________________________
Total = ~160LBS Extra
Now, my race weight is = 3350LBS
Substract the ...............~160LBS
_____________________________
No Cage/Aluminum Block = ~3190LBS
Which, when I had the Big Bore motor, and no cage and fire suppresion I was at one time at 3170LBS....which makes sense.
Naz
U 2 are on crack. :lol:
psst.....no they're not. Mach seats are WAY more comfy...well, for me. I always hated having my clothes rub against the suede.
Poor Cobras cant even win in a New Edge only forum. Of course, I have to go with the Cobra.
Mach 1 Likes:
Shaker hood awesom
Underdrive pulleys from factory
Tad higher compression
Slightly better gears
Slightly improved cylinder heads
Mach 1 Dislikes:
Cant get past the wheels
Cant get past the interior
Smaller cams
Solid rear
Having modified and tuned both, in stock form Mach is a bit quicker and it should be with the pulleys, gears, and smaller cams better matched to the restrictive intake.
Stock for stock Cobra makes more horsepower but less torque. Feels like a lot less torque as a result of the different gears, solid differential and factory underdrive pulleys.
However, in bolt on form with ported intake, Cobra noticeably stronger on dyno and street. My experience with identical bolt on's and tuning.
Cobra edge is from the slightly bigger cams. Throw 4.56's in and Cobra is right at home while Mach runs out of breath pretty fast.
Both are great. I have alot of respect for the Mach and couldnt fault anybody for choosing it over a Cobra.
Mach 1 Likes:
Shaker hood awesom
Underdrive pulleys from factory
Tad higher compression
Slightly better gears
Slightly improved cylinder heads
Mach 1 Dislikes:
Cant get past the wheels
Cant get past the interior
Smaller cams
Solid rear
Having modified and tuned both, in stock form Mach is a bit quicker and it should be with the pulleys, gears, and smaller cams better matched to the restrictive intake.
Stock for stock Cobra makes more horsepower but less torque. Feels like a lot less torque as a result of the different gears, solid differential and factory underdrive pulleys.
However, in bolt on form with ported intake, Cobra noticeably stronger on dyno and street. My experience with identical bolt on's and tuning.
Cobra edge is from the slightly bigger cams. Throw 4.56's in and Cobra is right at home while Mach runs out of breath pretty fast.
Both are great. I have alot of respect for the Mach and couldnt fault anybody for choosing it over a Cobra.
I have to disgree in some of what you are saying. Mach's don't run out with 4.56s. They have the same tranny gears as the cobra and same (if not slightly higher - Ican't recall correctly right now) redline and they love upper rpms as well. Peak RWHP numbers are very similar in the two. The Cobra has the advantage with the powerband of HP in the upper rpms. THe Mach has a better low end TQ band (which you pointed out). I don't know where you get that the cobra makes more HP unless you are refering to the band and not peak. Because peak they are virtially the same (275-285 on avg.). The down fall is the Auto Machs for obvious reasons. I also don't see how the Machs intake is 'more restrictive' and has 'smaller' cams. I know the cobra's have slightly more duration and maybe that's what you are refering too?
Either way, both cars are have their pluses and minuses and it comes down to the individual preference. If you are into 'handling' then the cobra, if you are into drag racing then the mach...only because of how they are setup from the factory. Motor wise they are VERY similar.
:beer:
Yea, Boss block and a cage kind of throws a wrench into weight loss.
double post
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Let me clarify. I didnt say Mach's "run out with 4.56's", I said:
"Cobra edge is from the slightly bigger cams. Throw 4.56's in and Cobra is right at home while Machs runs out of breath pretty fast."
To put it differently, Mach's run out of breath sooner than Cobra's because the cams have less duration. I dont know what kind of experience you are drawing on but I've seen several dyno sheets over the years for both cars, stock and modified, AND I've conducted close to 100 dyno runs on the 01 Cobra and close to 20 with the Mach 1. Both with stock, ported, and short runner intakes. I assure you, the Cobra carries the power band into the higher RPM's better. As a result, it responds better to the very steep gears like 4.30's and 4.56's, as well as well ported and short runner intakes that accentuate the upper RPM ranges. Doesnt make it better, just different.
I also didnt say that "the Machs intake is 'more restrictive'" I said:
"in stock form Mach is a bit quicker and it should be with the pulleys, gears, and smaller cams better matched to the restrictive intake"
In other words, Ford knew what they were doing when they put smaller cams in the Mach. The 99-04 intake manifold is a restrictive design not well suited for high RPM. Less duration created a combo that only lacked 10-15 horsepower in stock form but had much better torque over a broad power band. This was a result of better matching the cams with the intake manifolds power range.
It's just an all around better matched package in stock form but as the mods that favor higher RPM power come on line, the Cobra starts to excel.
I've been running the Naturally Aspirated Horsepower List on Corral for almost 5 years and I've paid very close attention to the numbers produced by Machs since early production in 2003. They typically lag behind the Cobras by 10 - 15 horsepower in stock form. Their have been a few inflated numbers here and there from Mustang, Dynapack and various other dyno's, as well as Mach 1 guys typically like to quote STD numbers which always read higher than SAE. That's several years of observation and my own personal testing of the Mach 1 on the dyno. On the other hand, Mach's excel dramatically in torque.
Bottom line, when modified with just bolt ons, very few Mach's have been able to make the 315 rwhp minimum required for the Horsepower List, let alone the 330+ numbers of the full bolt on Cobra's are making. But back when I was maintaining the torque section of the list on the bottom, the Machs dominated it.
So, I think anyone who isnt allowing bias to affect their opinion will concede the Mach is a better matched and designed performance application in stock form. We will also have to agree the Cobra excells when modified for upper RPM operation and maximum horsepower.
If anyone cant handle that the Cobra does something better than the Mach 1, just tell yourself peak horsepower doesnt mean anything, it's what's under the curve that counts :rockon:
well you dig up pics of the 4 cars and then you show me the difference.
Junk motors??? WTF???
well, more so on '99s
I guess all the stuff that I have read over the past year or so was misinformation, becasue I always heard that the 99 Teksid motor ( and I believe the Teksid blocks started back with the 96 4Vs)... was a WAYYYYY better platform than the later WAP motor. All knowing, that neither motor uses the best internals, but as far as blocks and cranks go...Teksid FTMFW!!! Capable of 900+ :burn:
Probably saw one grenade that had a monster amount of boost thrown to an all stock internals motor!
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:lol1: Its not? You have no idea what you are talking about here.
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Stock for stock or mod for mod the Mach 1 would hand 01 Cobras their ass. Anyone that feels differently are more than welcome to come run my g/f's bolt on Mach. I'll drive...
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I've got a junk motor from 1999 and I would have no problem pulling your doors off. How can that be possible? Maybe your junk motor has a problem with it? :shrug:
Where at in SC are you, we can make this possible lol.
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Greenville. :beer: Less than 2 hours from you. The drag strip isn't closed yet if you wanna run them there. ;-)
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