I agree Ford should make a light weight naturally aspirated high horsepower mustang but the reality is if they did, the dealers will mark it up as much as they like which wouldn't be in the 34K-37K price point. Did you ever notice everytime they make a high horsepower car, they add a lot of weight to the car. Do you ever wonder about the future of SVT? Coleti retired. Hung Tang is not the head of SVT. Hung Tang is assigned somewhere else in Ford. For the enthusiast plays a small part in Ford eyes, Ford wants to capture the whole. If you know what I mean.
will ford and svt listen????
- Thread starter ON D BIT
- Start date
Ry_Trapp0 said:
and why could it not make a profit? for 28k you can build a very nice mustang gt. ford will make a very nice profit off that 28k mustang gt. they have the tuned suspension already. they have the brakes done. i have been hearing of all kinds of powerplants being tested in the mustang since spring of 05. i just want ford to come out swinging and be the first to market!
again both gm and mopar will have cars in this market segment for sale to the public by 09. will ford join the party? can ford be first to the party?:idea:
@ON D BIT - YOU CAN NOT MAKE AS MUCH MONEY OF A LIMITED PRODUCTION MUSTANG AS YOU CAN A PICKUP TRUCK. FORD NEEDS MONEY. THEY NEED FAMILY CARS THAT FAMILIES ARE WILLING TO BUY, NOT HIGH PERFORMANCE CARS THAT THE 40 YEAR OLD HUSBAND WISHES HE WAS BUYING WHILE THE WIFE SIGNS THE PAPERS TO THE BRAND NEW TAURUS. NOT SURE HOW MANY MORE TIMES I NEED TO STATE THE OBVIOUS.
@hot rod - wasnt he reassigned to some ford of brazil project or something? promotion my ass!
@hot rod - wasnt he reassigned to some ford of brazil project or something? promotion my ass!
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Ry_Trapp0 said:
and how does production mustang gt's and gt500 and the like keep ford from producing other cars and trucks? because ford is working on the new mustang gt does not mean they are not working on the new trucks, new family cars, new economy cars.
From my research, yes. I do a bit of SCCA SoloII and was going to use the V, switching from my CobraVert, but the input I was getting was reareands failing from just spirited street driving, not drag racing, and that if I was going to hit SCCA I should plan on a failure or fix first. Even with the wheel tire upgrade I did, the hop is pretty brutal. But I still say the car is an awesome piece of work & proud of it as a US perf lux beast.ON D BIT said:
Fix the rear, put on a magnacharger & smoke almost anything else with 4 doors and cruise in total luxury & comfort. I paid $37k for mine, with 4K mis on it and 18 mos old, not bad.
BTW, I'd love to see the stang you're referencing, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But we are in the minority I think. Ford baffles me, they seem to get the arrow to head towards the bullseye and then it takes a left turn or something.
Am I the only one who views the MM&FF articles on the experimental 7.0L naturally aspirated 800hp motor as a hint they are looking into the very thing we're discussing here?
@hot rod - wasnt he reassigned to some ford of brazil project or something? promotion my ass![/QUOTE]
Yep - Hau Thai-Tang is head of the Brazil division. Hardly a downgrade, Brazil is one of the most profitable Ford divisions.
Yep - Hau Thai-Tang is head of the Brazil division. Hardly a downgrade, Brazil is one of the most profitable Ford divisions.
Lethalchem said:
back 2000 or there abouts motor trend had a spread about the 351 boss mustang v-10. and while i will admit ford learned alot of r and d from this project on the near future 03/04 svts, ford did not deliver. they created the heavy 3650 terminators instead. and recently have been continueing in that same direction with the 3850 gt500.
will ford ever go back the other direction?
Ry_Trapp0 said:
BINGO!
What FORD needs is to fill their wallets so that they can continue in the automotive business. IMO, Ford needs to scrap the focus...and build a sporty econo box....How many guys you know have a muscle car and drive an econo box to work???? A bunch. I actually like the looks of the toyota corolla S..kinda sporty very reliable and gets great gas mileage! The scions aren't bad either...the focus simply isn't in the same league. I'll tell ya what I'd like to see and people would laugh at this idea but, bring back the mustang II except, shrink the current mustang down to scale....I'd love to have a 35mpg "matching" ...."mini mustang" with the same color and stripe as a big mustang....they'd sell a ton because people simply love the body style. They REALLY need to give honda and toyota a good challenge in the corolla/civic..and possibly the micro vehicles.....and whats up with only offering the hybrid in the escape/mariner????? Put it in a car! How about a diesel in a small car??????
Lets look at what On D Bit is asking for and surmize what that would look like with today's Ford.
Take the GT-500 and drop the supercharger. The 5.4 NA 32V is the only engine Ford has in production form that could come close to 400 NA HP.
With that as a starting point since it has the brakes and suspension, or most of it what do you propose deleting to drop 400lbs?
The public will not buy a car without AC, the airbags and crash protection are legislated. I would agree the power seats and Shaker 500 could go. Base cloth seats and the base dash and trim will bring the price down a bit further but not much weight.
Remember, any parts not currently available like lightweight axels, control arms or body structure would require a complete redesign and crash testing program placing the car out of line in price. How would you get there?
Take the GT-500 and drop the supercharger. The 5.4 NA 32V is the only engine Ford has in production form that could come close to 400 NA HP.
With that as a starting point since it has the brakes and suspension, or most of it what do you propose deleting to drop 400lbs?
The public will not buy a car without AC, the airbags and crash protection are legislated. I would agree the power seats and Shaker 500 could go. Base cloth seats and the base dash and trim will bring the price down a bit further but not much weight.
Remember, any parts not currently available like lightweight axels, control arms or body structure would require a complete redesign and crash testing program placing the car out of line in price. How would you get there?
jcthorne said:
very good question. although i am more intriqued by this question. add more power to the mustang gt and only drop 50 pounds? :-D
my basic point is an alluminum block n/a v8 with power levels close to that of the ls2/ls6.
ON D BIT said:
Unfortunately , it’s easier said then done.
cobracide said:
Yep - Hau Thai-Tang is head of the Brazil division. Hardly a downgrade, Brazil is one of the most profitable Ford divisions.[/QUOTE]
oh, he's the head of the brazil operations? i thought it was a job a little lower on the totem poll. ok, so it is a pretty good promotion, lol.
thank you!jimmy77 said:
yea, the focus really is horrible in its current state. they need to bring the european focus over here like everyone has been saying the past couple years. and, although i do like the fusion, just drop it and give us the mondeo. then drop the "taurus" like a rock and bring the australian falcon over here, and ford would have a car line up that could finally compete with GM, chrysler, and the best that japan could offer. might cost a good chunk of money to get these vehicles over here and make them pass emissions/crash testing, but it would be WELL WELL worth it!
I'll tell you why they build what they build right now.
The GT500 is the single most profitable vehicle Ford Motor Company sells. Let me repeat that: The GT500 is the single most profitable vehicle Ford Motor Company sells. On a per-vehicle basis there isn't a single car, truck or SUV they make that makes more money. That's completely absurd given that it's an upgraded pony car.
That's the end of the argument for or against building anything else. That's not to say they won't (cough cough), but the GT500 will continue on as is until they stop selling the shit out of them.
The GT500 is the single most profitable vehicle Ford Motor Company sells. Let me repeat that: The GT500 is the single most profitable vehicle Ford Motor Company sells. On a per-vehicle basis there isn't a single car, truck or SUV they make that makes more money. That's completely absurd given that it's an upgraded pony car.
That's the end of the argument for or against building anything else. That's not to say they won't (cough cough), but the GT500 will continue on as is until they stop selling the shit out of them.
just because its so profitable for the dealers doesnt mean its profitable for ford.
Hear me out on this one. "We" say the world needs [fill in the blank here] and when they listen, we don't buy it. "We" dream a lot and think we can out arm-chair quarterback the Big Three. "We" can't understand why they don't listen to our whims.
Meanwhile, "We" are a few thousand people. A Global enterprise such as Ford must appeal to millions to make a $.
We should be thankful they listen at all and make such niche cars as the the '00R, '03/04 Cobra, the '07/08 GT500, the Ford GT and a handful of other low production cars.
"We" all wanted the 2-seater T-Bird to return. Ford built it in mass and it was a sales failure.
"We" all wanted the Holden to come to America. GM brought it in mass and it was a sales failure.
"We" all wanted an entry-level Shelby. Shelby put together the SGT using every part from the FRPP parts bin and sales are luke warm. There are some sitting on the lots.
I could go on, but we all remember the other niche cars that failed.
"We" should all be rejoicing that we can go down to our local dealer and purchase a supercharged, 5.4L (!) Mustang with 500hp, air conditioning, big brakes, 6-speed, solid axle,...,etc. Take a trip down memory lane (say 10-15 years ago) and remember how we said Ford doesn't listen and they would NEVER build a 500hp Mustang. It's here today. This IS the golden era...until Ford builds that 600hp Mustang.
Meanwhile, "We" are a few thousand people. A Global enterprise such as Ford must appeal to millions to make a $.
We should be thankful they listen at all and make such niche cars as the the '00R, '03/04 Cobra, the '07/08 GT500, the Ford GT and a handful of other low production cars.
"We" all wanted the 2-seater T-Bird to return. Ford built it in mass and it was a sales failure.
"We" all wanted the Holden to come to America. GM brought it in mass and it was a sales failure.
"We" all wanted an entry-level Shelby. Shelby put together the SGT using every part from the FRPP parts bin and sales are luke warm. There are some sitting on the lots.
I could go on, but we all remember the other niche cars that failed.
"We" should all be rejoicing that we can go down to our local dealer and purchase a supercharged, 5.4L (!) Mustang with 500hp, air conditioning, big brakes, 6-speed, solid axle,...,etc. Take a trip down memory lane (say 10-15 years ago) and remember how we said Ford doesn't listen and they would NEVER build a 500hp Mustang. It's here today. This IS the golden era...until Ford builds that 600hp Mustang.
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great point(s)!!! thats the truth right there!
Ry_Trapp0 said:
I'm not talking about the dealers. I'm talking Ford Motor Company. The Shelby GT500 is the single most profitable vehicle Ford Motor Company sells.
mosconiac said:
the entry level shelby is only 5k away from the upgraded engine added blower and upgraded tranny of the gt500.
the shelby gt would be a great car if it was not 10k more than the mustang gt!
think about it for a moment????
tuned suspension, intake and exhaust for 10k.
new brakes, new tranny/clutch, bigger engine, and blower for 5k? does something not sound right?
but they need to make more on a low production car to recoup the R&D costs, right? 10K shelbys vs. 100k taurus, i doubt that ford will make more off of the shelbys, unless im really missing something here.DBK said:
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