2017 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350R vs. 2017 Chevy Camaro ZL1

[ON D BIT]

Is that 10 billion the money the government lost on the sale of GM stock or part of a loan? Will they ever get this money back?

The 5.9 billion Ford took was indeed a low interest loan(the money was from the government instead of banks. because the banks were about to fail) not a bailout or buyout of its stock.

 

[GT Premi]

...

The ZL1 1LE is marketed as a track car. That comparison should be interesting as the excuses will fly from the other side then when several seconds are put on the R at any track.

...

Motor Trend's ZL1 1LE test data is up! The verdict? The ZL1 1LE is 1.81 seconds faster than the R around Laguna Seca. All that extra power. All that fancy suspension geometry. All that extra aero. Comparable R-compound tires mounted on 19" wheels. Reduced weight. One point eight one second quicker around Laguna Seca. So much for "several seconds on any track." I can't wait to see the Head-2-Head for these two!!

GT350R at last year's BDC competition - 1:36.11
ZL1 1LE (MSRP base $71,295) - 1:34.30

Yes, 1.81 second on Laguna Seca is definitely a BIG gap, but nowhere near the thrashing that the Camaro fanboys were so adamant would take place. Several seconds on any track... Pfffft!

Oh! And for the "SS 1LE is just as fast as the GT350R" crowd, the SS 1LE ran a 1:37.78 around Laguna Seca in the same BDC competition last year.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...8-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-first-test-review/
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...8-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-first-test-review/
Yeah, I still would love to own a ZL1 1LE! Come on, Ford! Don't force me to go to the dark side! The next GT500 better bring the pain!

On the bright side, BOTH cars are quicker than the Nissan GTR around Laguna Seca. <poke> The pony cars are killing it! The "American cars can't turn" mantra is officially D-E-A-D.

 

[DHG1078]

Now for those that I offended. I will say this. Chevy as a corporation has it figured out. Ford on the other hand they are pissing me off. $90000 for a gt350r Is a joke in its own right. So I have to give credit to GM for keeping the dealers from screwing the end customer by keeping the dealers honest with the final sale price.

Dealers are independent franchises. Dealerships own the cars, not much Ford can do other than threaten to reduce dealer allocation. ADM only exists because consumers are willing to pay it. Its 64k for the GT350R. Its an additional 26k stupid tax.

The zl1 1le will be great but the new gt500 will still be close. So it will come down to who wants to mod the shit out of them to be faster. I really don't understand why we get so caught up comparing these factory cars when we all know the aftermarket will decide who the real bad boy is. And guess what. Chevy has never taken that crown.

Stock vs. Stock is about as fair a comparison as there can be. You start modding one, and its no longer apples to apples.

If Ford made more than 1k units of the 350R the adm would not be as high. Plus their top mustang would be in more hands of those that would drive them instead of being parked in hopes they go up in value.

That is true. Ford can't control ADM though. Only consumers can.

I'm not going to go into all the details. But all you need to know is. Ford DID take money from the government in the total of 5.9 billion. And yes that was to avoid bankruptcy. However they used the money to re tool and begin making better cars meaning more efficient and better for good ol Mother Nature. Now since 2009 they have repaid all of that money. Unlike GM they still owe over 10 billion from the 68 billion they borrowed.

A loan is nowhere near the same thing as a bailout.

 

[ZYBORG]

Motor Trend's ZL1 1LE test data is up! The verdict? The ZL1 1LE is 1.81 seconds faster than the R around Laguna Seca. All that extra power. All that fancy suspension geometry. All that extra aero. Comparable R-compound tires mounted on 19" wheels. Reduced weight. One point eight one second quicker around Laguna Seca. So much for "several seconds on any track." I can't wait to see the Head-2-Head for these two!!

GT350R at last year's BDC competition - 1:36.11
ZL1 1LE (MSRP base $71,295) - 1:34.30

Yes, 1.81 second on Laguna Seca is definitely a BIG gap, but nowhere near the thrashing that the Camaro fanboys were so adamant would take place. Several seconds on any track... Pfffft!

Oh! And for the "SS 1LE is just as fast as the GT350R" crowd, the SS 1LE ran a 1:37.78 around Laguna Seca in the same BDC competition last year.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...8-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-first-test-review/
Yeah, I still would love to own a ZL1 1LE! Come on, Ford! Don't force me to go to the dark side! The next GT500 better bring the pain!

On the bright side, BOTH cars are quicker than the Nissan GTR around Laguna Seca. <poke> The pony cars are killing it! The "American cars can't turn" mantra is officially D-E-A-D.

HOOOOLY EXCUSES BATMAN!

R Destroyed!

I find it really ironic that you like to compare track times on different days only when it suits you.

You highlight/bold "ONE" second when the reality is it is closer to TWO second gap.

2 second gap is good gap on that track.

Lets also highlight all the ZL1 pros and lets ommit the Rs. Such as superior carbon fiber wheels and tire combo. 150+lbs weight advantage.
Still didnt help it from getting killed.

Ill still wait for the actual comparo though.

 

[72SBC]

I agree, almost 2 seconds on a slightly slower track like Seca is pretty big. It's right in line to what each car has done to be slightly better than the other.

 

[DHG1078]

HOOOOLY EXCUSES BATMAN!

R Destroyed!

I find it really ironic that you like to compare track times on different days only when it suits you.

You highlight/bold "ONE" second when the reality is it is closer to TWO second gap.

2 second gap is good gap on that track.

Lets also highlight all the ZL1 pros and lets ommit the Rs. Such as superior carbon fiber wheels and tire combo. 150+lbs weight advantage.
Still didnt help it from getting killed.

Ill still wait for the actual comparo though.

Or the 2+ year development gap. From what austin was saying, it doesn't seem like there is a huge difference in rubber.

Nearly 2 second gap is huge. Not even close.

 

[ON D BIT]

HOOOOLY EXCUSES BATMAN!

R Destroyed!

I find it really ironic that you like to compare track times on different days only when it suits you.

You highlight/bold "ONE" second when the reality is it is closer to TWO second gap.

2 second gap is good gap on that track.

Lets also highlight all the ZL1 pros and lets ommit the Rs. Such as superior carbon fiber wheels and tire combo. 150+lbs weight advantage.
Still didnt help it from getting killed.

Ill still wait for the actual comparo though.

Correct it is a large time difference. We were expecting this, we'll most of us. Some were expecting sub 1.33.

The R8 V10 plus ran nearly the same time at Laguna Seca 1.34.23, a hair faster. But it's ring time by an independent pro driver was significantly slower. Interesting.

 

[GT Premi]

HOOOOLY EXCUSES BATMAN!

R Destroyed!

I find it really ironic that you like to compare track times on different days only when it suits you.

You highlight/bold "ONE" second when the reality is it is closer to TWO second gap.

2 second gap is good gap on that track.

Lets also highlight all the ZL1 pros and lets ommit the Rs. Such as superior carbon fiber wheels and tire combo. 150+lbs weight advantage.
Still didnt help it from getting killed.

Ill still wait for the actual comparo though.

What excuses did I make?? None. If you read my whole post, you'll see that I even acknowledged that it's a BIG gap. I highlighted the "one" because "one" does not equal "several" like you guys in the ZL1 camp have been claiming the ZL1 1LE would put on the GT350R. I believe I posted somewhere that I believed the ZL1 1LE would be less than 2 seconds quicker than the R. I was right. You guys were acting like the 1LE was going to be 3+ seconds quicker. You were wrong.

And like DHG1078 alluded to, the ZL1 1LE is brand new! The GT350R setup is basically 3 years old at this point. Oh, and let's not forget that the GT350R and ZL1 1LE aren't even direct competitors. So, 3 years of development time, 114 more HP, 221 more ft-lbs of torque, more aero, reduced weight, R-compound tires, a full-on race spec suspension, and a 1.81 second faster lap around Laguna Seca is what we get?

 

[DHG1078]

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...8-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-first-test-review/

According to this article, the camaro's tires may be better than the GT350Rs. Sounds like they will allow faster lap times longer than the sport cup 2's.

 

[big reg]

What excuses did I make?? None. If you read my whole post, you'll see that I even acknowledged that it's a BIG gap. I highlighted the "one" because "one" does not equal "several" like you guys in the ZL1 camp have been claiming the ZL1 1LE would put on the GT350R. I believe I posted somewhere that I believed the ZL1 1LE would be less than 2 seconds quicker than the R. I was right. You guys were acting like the 1LE was going to be 3+ seconds quicker. You were wrong.

And like DHG1078 alluded to, the ZL1 1LE is brand new! The GT350R setup is basically 3 years old at this point. Oh, and let's not forget that the GT350R and ZL1 1LE aren't even direct competitors. So, 3 years of development time, 114 more HP, 221 more ft-lbs of torque, more aero, reduced weight, R-compound tires, a full-on race spec suspension, and a 1.81 second faster lap around Laguna Seca is what we get?

I've had my fill bantering over these 2 cars but I did LOL at the I'm a douche. Was that you or did a mod bamboozle you?

 

[DHG1078]

Its also a bit concerning how that article talks about camaro's best times typically going unrecorded, unverified, and based on the camaro's in car lap timer.

 

[GT Premi]

I've had my fill bantering over these 2 cars but I did LOL at the I'm a douche. Was that you or did a mod bamboozle you?

There's a mod here with girly sensitivities that keeps changing it.

 

[GT Premi]

The Head 2 Head is up for free viewing now. I didn't notice it the first time I watched the video, but the front splitter on that GT350R is trashed! It's barely hanging on, and you can see it flapping underneath the car in the sound comparison segment. You can see somebody had a nasty off-road excursion with it.

 

[72SBC]

The Head 2 Head is up for free viewing now. I didn't notice it the first time I watched the video, but the front splitter on that GT350R is trashed! It's barely hanging on, and you can see it flapping underneath the car in the sound comparison segment. You can see somebody had a nasty off-road excursion with it.

Yeah it hit a leaf pulling into the local cars n coffee, you know, where all the real owners actually drive it.

 

[DHG1078]

The Head 2 Head is up for free viewing now. I didn't notice it the first time I watched the video, but the front splitter on that GT350R is trashed! It's barely hanging on, and you can see it flapping underneath the car in the sound comparison segment. You can see somebody had a nasty off-road excursion with it.

So the GT350R put up a hell of a fight on track with damaged aero?

 

[ZYBORG]

Probably only firing on 6 cylinders too...

 

[DHG1078]

Probably only firing on 6 cylinders too...

Chevy might as well give up.

 

[ON D BIT]

Its also a bit concerning how that article talks about camaro's best times typically going unrecorded, unverified, and based on the camaro's in car lap timer.

It was just one big gm ad. More unconfirmed numbers than verified stats. Got to love GM.

 

[ON D BIT]

Zyborg: good info here on the new tire and B Wise the driver...
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3...ro-zl1-1le-just-ran-a-7-16-at-the-ring-9.html

 

[6.0GTO]

The level of maturity in that thread is refreshing.