So you want Brembo brakes

[JDos1]

It appears as if A1 Cardone is no longer offering only re-manufactured units....These are indeed Brembo knockoffs.

My original message,
"Hi,



I'm preparing for the upcoming autocross season and I have a question regarding a pair of brake calipers. Are Part Numbers 18-5128/18-5129 authentic Brembo units that have simply been rebuilt or are they aftermarket reproduction units not originally manufactured by Brembo?



Thank you for your assistance"

And the A1 Cardone reps response:
"Thank you for e-mailing us. These may not be OE but fit and function the same."

 

[Mlp07]

Hey guys want any of you to answer my question, or who have gone this route. I bought a set from autozone, and installed it 2 days ago. Brake pedal travel increased and thought i had air in the lines. Just bleed the lines again and no air on either one (front or back). Did any of you feel the difference in the pedal travel compare to the oem 2 piston caliper? I did noticed a big increase in braking tho.

 

[stang99x]

I had no longer really been following this thread as it is over 2 years old, however I saw an email letting me know it had been replied to and decided to take a peek. I think that the thread devolved a bit, and most certainly hasn't kept to what it's original intended purpose was. When I wrote this, a set of calipers to do a brembo conversion would run you close to $1000. However with a little effort you could do it for much less. Just like everything else in life, over time the prices have changed. A pair of calipers can be found from wrecked cars for under $500 nowadays, in some cases under $400. At the time of the writing, this thread did exactly what it was intended to do......save you money doing the conversion. Whether or not the vendors who sell reman's have changed suppliers or started making their own remains to be seen but really doesn't matter. If they are selling a brake caliper they have manufactured then you can bet your ass it's been tested to perform as good as the unit it would be replacing. If this wasn't true and there was a failure, in today's litigious society someone would end up suing A1 or any other maker into bankruptcy. Also, these days with technology the way it is a company can simply do a 3d scan of a product and reproduce it flawlessly without having to put any money into research. Regardless of how it came to the point it is at, if they are selling the caliper as an OE replacement then it must perform to OE standards. And companies like AutoZone and Advance Auto and all the others stand behind what they sell. I have been using my A1 Brembo's for over two years without the slightest issue. "Driving it like I stole it" means the brakes on my car HAVE to perform constantly and are used extensively harder than any average person would use them.

And as to the above talking about 2015 calipers, they are not a direct swap fit.

 

[stang99x]

Hey guys want any of you to answer my question, or who have gone this route. I bought a set from autozone, and installed it 2 days ago. Brake pedal travel increased and thought i had air in the lines. Just bleed the lines again and no air on either one (front or back). Did any of you feel the difference in the pedal travel compare to the oem 2 piston caliper? I did noticed a big increase in braking tho.

You will notice a big change in braking given you are using a far bigger caliper. As to the perceived increase in travel, that would vary from car to car and could very well be air trapped in the line.

 

[Coz]

3D scans don't address the metalurgy or heat treatment of the parts. As far as testing, I doubt they have the resources that Brembo has. They may have tested for normal street use at legal highway speeds. Their warranty specifically excludes off-road use.

"Warranty excludes damage caused by misuse, abuse, other faulty parts, improper installation or off-road, commercial or marine use."

 

[JDos1]

Ensure you follow the proper bleed sequence for the Brembos and are bleeding from both bleeders. Can't remember the sequence. A quick google search should warrant the info you need. It's preferred you bleed with the engine running.

Yes Stang99LX but the A1's you have are TRUE remanufactured Brembos. Hence the difficulty in obtaining them up until about a year ago when they became readily available (the A1 units, not Brembos in general) due to the switch to offshore reproductions. I think no one is arguing against your original intention by creating this post. However, due to it being a free market it's one's choice as to what they purchase. I would be uncomfortable running China made remanufactured "Brembos" on a $30-40K car with people's lives at risk. The true reman Brembo's I'd have no issue using. We all know how hit and miss Chinese quality can be. There's two things I don't and flat out refuse to cheap out on. Tires and brakes. As Coz mentioned, you can't be certain that the QC and method of manufacturing is that of Brembo. How many other parts on the market are "made to OE specifications" yet fail to hold up or perform like OE? As far as I'm aware there is no set "list of variables" for specific parts that aftermarket products must meet or exceed in order to be advertised as "made to OE specs". As long as it fits and performs it's primary job, it can be labeled as such.

This idea was excellent when the reman's were true Brembos (And still is if that's the route someone wishes to take). I personally used this thread to perform the 4 pot Brembo swap on my 2011 about a year and a half ago but found a pair of new 2012 GT500 black Brembos on clearance for <$350 so went that route instead. However, I used all of the other information you provided. I think the only argument made here is as to whether or not A1 Cardone still uses TRUE Brembo cores or are using cheap Chinese reproductions. The answer has been given as I have contacted A1 and you can read the above response.


For 2015+ brakes....
The 6 piston Brembos are a "direct" swap, in that you can use 2015+ GT 6 Piston Brembo calipers as long as you use 13-14 GT500 pads and rotors as well as Russell stainless braided lines. Been there, done that as well.

2015+ 4 pistons aren't a direct swap but it is a very easy task to accomplish. Use washers to shim the caliper over the S197 rotors and either grind the brake line "holding block" down on the caliper or utilize aftermarket brake lines.

That's the excellent thing about the 2015+ coming out. It has made brake upgrades for the S197 EXTREMELY affordable.

You can run a 2015+ 4 pot OE setup for under $300. You can run a 2015+ 6 pot Brembo setup for under $600 (which previously couldn't be done for under $900) and you can now get S197 4 pot Brembo setups for under $500.

 

[stang99x]

Ensure you follow the proper bleed sequence for the Brembos and are bleeding from both bleeders. Can't remember the sequence. A quick google search should warrant the info you need. It's preferred you bleed with the engine running.

Yes Stang99LX but the A1's you have are TRUE remanufactured Brembos. Hence the difficulty in obtaining them up until about a year ago when they became readily available (the A1 units, not Brembos in general) due to the switch to offshore reproductions. I think no one is arguing against your original intention by creating this post. However, due to it being a free market it's one's choice as to what they purchase. I would be uncomfortable running China made remanufactured "Brembos" on a $30-40K car with people's lives at risk. The true reman Brembo's I'd have no issue using. We all know how hit and miss Chinese quality can be. There's two things I don't and flat out refuse to cheap out on. Tires and brakes. As Coz mentioned, you can't be certain that the QC and method of manufacturing is that of Brembo. How many other parts on the market are "made to OE specifications" yet fail to hold up or perform like OE? As far as I'm aware there is no set "list of variables" for specific parts that aftermarket products must meet or exceed in order to be advertised as "made to OE specs". As long as it fits and performs it's primary job, it can be labeled as such.

This idea was excellent when the reman's were true Brembos (And still is if that's the route someone wishes to take). I personally used this thread to perform the 4 pot Brembo swap on my 2011 about a year and a half ago but found a pair of new 2012 GT500 black Brembos on clearance for <$350 so went that route instead. However, I used all of the other information you provided. I think the only argument made here is as to whether or not A1 Cardone still uses TRUE Brembo cores or are using cheap Chinese reproductions. The answer has been given as I have contacted A1 and you can read the above response.


For 2015+ brakes....
The 6 piston Brembos are a "direct" swap, in that you can use 2015+ GT 6 Piston Brembo calipers as long as you use 13-14 GT500 pads and rotors as well as Russell stainless braided lines. Been there, done that as well.

2015+ 4 pistons aren't a direct swap but it is a very easy task to accomplish. Use washers to shim the caliper over the S197 rotors and either grind the brake line "holding block" down on the caliper or utilize aftermarket brake lines.

That's the excellent thing about the 2015+ coming out. It has made brake upgrades for the S197 EXTREMELY affordable.

You can run a 2015+ 4 pot OE setup for under $300. You can run a 2015+ 6 pot Brembo setup for under $600 (which previously couldn't be done for under $900) and you can now get S197 4 pot Brembo setups for under $500.

Like I said, haven't really followed any of it since I did it. However I had noticed the price of Brembo's from wrecked cars had dropped substantially and the availability had increased dramatically. I also had not followed A1 since doing it. If they have changed then perhaps it's something that a potential customer should look at before deciding what to do.

But just to throw a monkey in the wrench, how confident are you in a set of take off brembo's from a wrecked car not knowing what caused the wreck?
*I'm being facetious here if you don't see it *

 

[JDos1]

Like I said, haven't really followed any of it since I did it. However I had noticed the price of Brembo's from wrecked cars had dropped substantially and the availability had increased dramatically. I also had not followed A1 since doing it. If they have changed then perhaps it's something that a potential customer should look at before deciding what to do.

But just to throw a monkey in the wrench, how confident are you in a set of take off brembo's from a wrecked car not knowing what caused the wreck?
*I'm being facetious here if you don't see it *

Understandable. The huge drop in price is due to several reasons 1) Greater supply and less demand for authentic used Brembos due to the aftermarket "appeal" of modding S197's declining due to the release of the S550, 2) An overseas manufacturer making cheap reproductions and creating readily available supply of Brembo style calipers at a reduced cost, 3) The ability to run 2015+ 4 pot OEM's for half the cost of Brembos only with more pad and rotor options.

As far as the wreck, personally I would inquire as to what caused the wreck and request pictures of the areas damaged. Obviously if there was front corner damage in the immediate vicinity of the caliper/spindle I would shy away from the option OR buy at a much lower cost and rebuild the caliper myself.


I think the thing several others and I were arguing is that A1 Cardone gives no indication whatsoever that the product they offer is no longer an Authentic Brembo product. That is detrimental is more than one way. It can trick a perceived purchaser into buying a set, believing they are receiving actual Brembos, not cheap reproductions. Someone selling a car with the repro's can advertise that it has Brembo brakes (when in fact it doesn't), tricking the buyer into believing they are receiving something they actually are not. It kills resale value for those who have actual Brembo calipers due to the vast percentage of people modding cars not caring about quality or authenticity.

 

[stang99x]

Understandable. The huge drop in price is due to several reasons 1) Greater supply and less demand for authentic used Brembos due to the aftermarket "appeal" of modding S197's declining due to the release of the S550, 2) An overseas manufacturer making cheap reproductions and creating readily available supply of Brembo style calipers at a reduced cost, 3) The ability to run 2015+ 4 pot OEM's for half the cost of Brembos only with more pad and rotor options.

As far as the wreck, personally I would inquire as to what caused the wreck and request pictures of the areas damaged. Obviously if there was front corner damage in the immediate vicinity of the caliper/spindle I would shy away from the option OR buy at a much lower cost and rebuild the caliper myself.


I think the thing several others and I were arguing is that A1 Cardone gives no indication whatsoever that the product they offer is no longer an Authentic Brembo product. That is detrimental is more than one way. It can trick a perceived purchaser into buying a set, believing they are receiving actual Brembos, not cheap reproductions. Someone selling a car with the repro's can advertise that it has Brembo brakes (when in fact it doesn't), tricking the buyer into believing they are receiving something they actually are not. It kills resale value for those who have actual Brembo calipers due to the vast percentage of people modding cars not caring about quality or authenticity.

I can agree with everything you said there. Unfortunately these days, there are so many faked, replica's and cheap reproductions out there and the lines between true product and black market have been so blurred that only very trained eyes can tell the difference with heavy inspection that would normally not be done. Typically one would look at the car and see it either has the brembo caliper or not, rarely would anyone take the time to remove the wheel and inspect for markings. But, this is the world we live in these days. The discerning consumer has to be far more vigilant these days to insure a quality product.

 

[JDos1]

I can agree with everything you said there. Unfortunately these days, there are so many faked, replica's and cheap reproductions out there and the lines between true product and black market have been so blurred that only very trained eyes can tell the difference with heavy inspection that would normally not be done. Typically one would look at the car and see it either has the brembo caliper or not, rarely would anyone take the time to remove the wheel and inspect for markings. But, this is the world we live in these days. The discerning consumer has to be far more vigilant these days to insure a quality product.

Exactly my point. Very few differences and even the average, decently informed consumer who knows what Brembos should look like, very well may not be able to tell the difference. Same with things like Otter Box phone cases and aftermarket batteries. They can be 100% identical and you'd never know you were buying a reproduction. It's a shame that it is that way.

 

[bdcardinal]

One of our techs is doing this on his Mustang. I think it is a 2014. Anyway he got the Duralast Brembo calipers. Here was what they looked like when they showed up:

 

[bdcardinal]

Something I noticed, the hardware kit did not include the pins for the pads. There was the flat spring, but no pins.

 

[JDos1]

Those are some of the reproductions. The hardware kits are $15 ish. Tell them at the store and they may just comp you a set.

 

[bceeezy]

When I bought mine, they included the pins, caliper brackets, banjo bolts and washers; however, I have decided to go with the ones from Ford and will be ordering them from Autonation White Bear. Looks like they have the better price compared to Tasca, but I think all of the hardware needs to be purchased separately.

It's too bad. If only I jumped on this sooner when they were really Brembo remans, this would have been a smokin' deal.

 

[Coz]

Some pads will come with the hardware. For example, my PowerStop Z26 and Track Day pads come with the spring and pins. And a small packet of lube.

 

[Coz]

Banjo Bolt & Crush Washer part numbers are:

W712275-S430
EOAZ-2149-B

 

[bceeezy]

I also found this through summit racing to save a little on shipping. The part number looks correct, but it says it's two piston?

Is this the right part? https://m.summitracing.com/parts/mof-brcf109

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

[Coz]

These are stock sliding calipers with two pistons on just one side. These are not Brembos.

The OEM Ford Brembos are:
BR3Z-2B120-B
BR3Z-2B121-B

Both are available from Tasca or other Ford dealers. Curiously, one side requires a core charge while the other side does not.

 

[bceeezy]

These are stock sliding calipers with two pistons on just one side. These are not Brembos.

The OEM Ford Brembos are:
BR3Z-2B120-B
BR3Z-2B121-B

Both are available from Tasca or other Ford dealers. Curiously, one side requires a core charge while the other side does not.

It has the brembo part number on that link but it seems different. How confusing lol

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

 

[greenscobie86]

SERIOUSLY thinking of doing this.

I can ditch the factory 13.2" backing plates right? Or just bend them out of the way?