Let me spare you the suspense. IT'S NOT ADEQUATE!
Something to consider when the oil change topic happens here
- Thread starter UnleashedBeast
- Start date
Let me spare you the suspense. IT'S NOT ADEQUATE!
Without a high HT/HS, of course it isn't in most applications. No debating that.
Unleashed, is it safe to put a hard drive magnet (powerful magnet) at the bottom of the oil filter to catch metal shavings?
Why wouldn't it be? :??:
Nothing wrong with it, could only help. People have been doing it for years. One company makes purpose built magnets for this. Only ferrous metals will be removed (iron). Non-ferrous metals are not attracted to a magnet (i.e. no iron content). Copper, aluminum, tin, and lead will pass right by it.
Thanks, I just sold my 2010 GT and picked up a 2012 Boss. Went with 10W-40 Amsoil through your link, thanks for all the info!
I appreciate all the info that has shaken out from all of your threads, but I still don't quite get how you are basing your roadrunner recommendations based on GT500 data. What kind of on-track oil temps have you been seeing on the GT500s tested? Both roadrunners and coyotes can spin much higher and that generates a lot more heat in the oil. Personally, I wouldn't run anything less than Xw-50 in a Boss or 5.0 for road racing.
A year and a half later and I haven't heard of any Bosses running anything that light...from either track or non-track Bosses. I'm sure that's fine for one always driven like a grandma.
And when you drive like a grandma you get passed by a real grandma in a Buick. When you get passed by a real grandma in a Buick people point and laugh. When people point and laugh you feel bad about yourself.
When you feel bad about yourself you try to arm wrestle a lumberjack. When you try to arm wrestle a lumberjack you break your arm and when you break your arm you can't drive your boss.
So use the right oil and please don't drive like a grandma.
:lol: Put that on your bumper.
You really think your RoadRunner is something special because it can turn a few hundres RPM more than a Coyote, and about 1K more than a GT500? Please tell me how you are holding your car above 7,000 RPM every second of your track driving. Engine lubricants can easily achieve 300*F around the pistons on the road course. That's where the HT/HS (high temp/high shear) specification comes into play.
How many times do I have to repeat myself. Motorcraft 5W-50 shears rapidly (good bye HT/HS virgin specs). Unless you are changing your oil at every track session, you do not have a 50 grade lubricant in your engine. If you want a dedicated lubricant for road course racing, stop messing with inferior 50 grade lubricants. Use this, it will not shear like Motorcraft.
Dominator 15W-50
Ive been asking that question for over a year.
Your pet analysis of oils is like an ant farm. Interesting to look at but ultimately pointless. Your main thesis is some oils shear faster than others so they shouldnt be used?
I got a response to that. So the f*ck what?
Is that some secret cover up that you have to sound the air raid sirens with alarmist clutter like this? Lol
I change my oil every 4-6 hours of track use.
And even at normal street intervals. Its WELL WITHIN the oils performance range for time and mileage. So go play with your junior chemistry set and let men carry on with real work.
Thanks, UB! Spot-on, as always.
And, another "man" for the Ignore List...
And, another "man" for the Ignore List...
Just to clarify...I've been following these threads from the start and I completely understand your point about the MC 5w-50 shearing. And I honestly appreciate all the good info I've picked up from your threads.
What I don't get is your previous recommendation for the 10w40 for *any* 5.0 or 302 that is used for road racing or HDPE...or how you even decided that it's the right oil for the GT500. Unlike the Dominator line, I haven't seen a HT/HS spec on the 10w40 you've been recommending. And I'm pretty sure there's a reason why the Amsoil race oils show the HT/HS test data.
Not sure what level you drive at, but either GT or Boss (and yes, I've had both on track) are really easy to keep on the top side of revs. I'm an intermediate driver at best and I can easily run a course between 5k and 7k on the GT, though I am often faster if I lug some turns and save the two shifts. But if you think there's no difference between the heat generated with a 7,500 rev limit and 6,250 on track...then you need to brush up on your physics. Some of the track rats who encounter heat issues shifting at 7,500 back off to 6,500 and the overheat condition goes away. I'd call that empirical proof of the heat generated. So maybe you'll rethink the 'because OK for GT500, must be OK for Boss/GT' position you're sticking to. A little scary if you understand about the ease of reaching near 300 degree oil temps and still recommend the 10w40 to anybody on track. Otherwise, it's also okay to say you don't know, when you don't know what's best.
I know this was a rhetorical question, but in stock form the roadrunners can safely turn almost 2k RPM over (8,200). So yes, I do think these engines are something special.
If you are using the Dominator 15w-50 how soon do you have to change it?
Now I'm using the 10w-40 and change it every 3-4 track day(HPDE) or around every 3 months.
Thx
Now I'm using the 10w-40 and change it every 3-4 track day(HPDE) or around every 3 months.
Thx
Went to my local Ford dealer to get my first batch of oil since I got the Boss. They gave me Mobil 1 5W-50! Asked about Motorcraft and was told this was what was shipped to them (assume that it's Ford that they place their parts orders through). So not sure whether this is new going forward or not. Got it for just over $9/liter.....and of course the 500s filter to go with it.
And for me, I'll be sticking to the Ford recommendation oil wise for this car; I would hope those engineering the car know what's best to run in the motor.
And for me, I'll be sticking to the Ford recommendation oil wise for this car; I would hope those engineering the car know what's best to run in the motor.
You mean the real men racers using Dominator 15W-50 on circle track heats, only changing their oil every 3-4 weekends of racing, sending in the UOA sample.....results returning as lubricant hardly sheared and strong TBN? If not for the elevated levels of lead ppm (leaded race fuel use), the lubricant could be used twice as many weekends.
P.S. You are wasting your money. A man would know this.
Motorcraft recommended change interval from Ford negates HT/HS requirements for track use. *Shears rapidly*
Less viscous lubricants release heat more rapidly than more viscous lubricants, maintaining a higher average of viscosity in extreme conditions.
Overheating at 7,500 RPM? Install a more efficient cooling system. Use oil to air lubricant cooling, not oil to engine coolant method. Solved!
I told you to use Dominator 15W-50 if you want a REAL hardcore 50 grade lubricant in your engine on race day. No denying that logic.
Roadrunner has stronger rods and heavier valve springs (easy summary). That's the difference. Bearing clearances, no reported change.
/debate
Engineers know all too well. It's the bean counters you have to worry about. They win over engineer's brains frequently.
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That doesn't make any sense at all. I understand in your data that the MC shears rapidly. Are you saying if you change the MC 5w50 per the manual for track use that HT/HS doesn't matter?
Er...not sure where you're getting that data, but pretty sure that's not quite right either. The specific heat of oil is not different with different viscosities. Perhaps you mean to say they generate less heat?
And are you saying that less viscous lubricants have a higher average viscosity in extreme conditions? Is that a typo?
Funny you mention the oil to air cooler...one of the Bosses I was talking about did just that. Ditched the stock oil/coolant setup for a huge oil/air. 270ish pan temps in 85* ambient. Roadrunners make a LOT of heat on the top end. It's all in the RPM.
So far the only setups that seem to easily take extreme heat (IMO, 85F+) use both the stock cooler *and* an oil/air cooler in series. Many of us are wishing it was such a simple fix, for some it will be. Others will need both coolant side and oil cooling upgrades.
I still don't get why you've recommended the 10W-40 in the past to anybody even doing one track day. I've seen a handful of Boss guys say they're running the 10W-40 after reading your threads and were planning on doing from one to a few track days. Since I haven't seen a UOA from a Boss using 10W-40 and *any* track miles I've been a little concerned for those guys.
That sounds just a wee bit wrong too. The Boss and Coyote only share a handful of parts depending on the year of Coyote. IIRC, just the bearings, rod bolts and maybe a couple other things. While almost everything will cross-bolt between the two, they are more different than alike.
Good post as usual Grant. Keep things in perspective.
Another thing to point out is that all drivers and track days are not the same. I drive my car in the upper RPM range and manage my shifts to keep the RPMs 5k-7200 ALL THE TIME. That takes some practice.
An HPDE 1-2 driver is not going to do that, so that will have an effect on the outcome. I just don't want to hear some HPDE 1 Boss driver come back and say the non-standard, unrecommended oil WORKS FINE on track. Because its a ticking time bomb.
Any smart Boss track driver won't be doing this, so we likely won't have good data points.
FWIW, I run both the stock water oil cooler and an air-to-oil cooler. My oil pan temps are 230-240. My coolant temps at WOT on track now stay below 200 (198ish TBE) in 75 degree, clear weather.
And I've decided to send my oil out for analysis after the recommended FOUR HOURS of track use (high RPM track use). I will post the findings here.
Another thing to point out is that all drivers and track days are not the same. I drive my car in the upper RPM range and manage my shifts to keep the RPMs 5k-7200 ALL THE TIME. That takes some practice.
An HPDE 1-2 driver is not going to do that, so that will have an effect on the outcome. I just don't want to hear some HPDE 1 Boss driver come back and say the non-standard, unrecommended oil WORKS FINE on track. Because its a ticking time bomb.
Any smart Boss track driver won't be doing this, so we likely won't have good data points.
FWIW, I run both the stock water oil cooler and an air-to-oil cooler. My oil pan temps are 230-240. My coolant temps at WOT on track now stay below 200 (198ish TBE) in 75 degree, clear weather.
And I've decided to send my oil out for analysis after the recommended FOUR HOURS of track use (high RPM track use). I will post the findings here.
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UnleashedBeast said...
"Engineers know all too well. It's the bean counters you have to worry about. They win over engineer's brains frequently."[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but i'm not following you on this. The oil that's recommended doesn't impact the cost of producing the car (ok, it does, but very minimally), so why would the bean counters care? If we take it one step further, if the oil recommended wasn't good enough to sustain the car (including some track use....since that's what the car was designed for), they might also face higher costs for warranty claims....aka engine failures. No?
Or perhaps the oil is just good enough to get through the warranty period....and then they can reap the benefit of having more $$ generated through engine repairs the owners have to pay for? <----Have a hard time believing Ford would take this approach with the Boss.
I'll take my chances with the Mobil 1 5W-50.
"Engineers know all too well. It's the bean counters you have to worry about. They win over engineer's brains frequently."[/QUOTE]
Sorry, but i'm not following you on this. The oil that's recommended doesn't impact the cost of producing the car (ok, it does, but very minimally), so why would the bean counters care? If we take it one step further, if the oil recommended wasn't good enough to sustain the car (including some track use....since that's what the car was designed for), they might also face higher costs for warranty claims....aka engine failures. No?
Or perhaps the oil is just good enough to get through the warranty period....and then they can reap the benefit of having more $$ generated through engine repairs the owners have to pay for? <----Have a hard time believing Ford would take this approach with the Boss.
I'll take my chances with the Mobil 1 5W-50.
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