I purchased a used KB 2.2 supercharger online from eBay back in January. When I had it installed, my mechanic quickly noticed that the bypass valve was leaking air out the housing where the blade of the valve attaches. We 'next dayed' a new one and he tryed tuning it, but I needed a snub pulley because he said the sc pulley was slipping at 5K. He put a 3.0 pulley on it with the stock lower. I drove it home to Tampa (120 miles away) and parked it until the snub pulley came in. I drove it back and Jake and he noticed that the oil level fell to the bottom of the dipstick. He instantly said this was a problem before I got it. Now he did tell me to check the oil with every oil change, but I only went a total of 300 miles. Needless to say I wasn't happy that it needs a rebuild. The seller claims that it was I who burnt out the seals because I didn't watch the oil.
I would like to get everyone's opinion on whether you think it was my fault or it came this way. Below is a post of the entire email thread that the seller and I had. I changed every reference of my mechanic's name to XXXX to keep him out of this...
From: eng2244
To: perfomaceautosport
Subject: Other: eng2244 sent a message about 03-04 SVT Cobra Kenne Bell 2.2 POLISHED Supercharger & 60lb SD Injectors #320821725921
Sent Date: Feb-14-12 12:58:00 PST
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I bought this Supercharger on 1/9/12. My mechanic and tuner had found out that the bypass valve on the back was causing a vaccuum leak. Basically the shaft that the blade sits on was allowing air out of the casing where it's mounted. They also found that several of the injectors are faulty. I know that the SC was being sold as 'used' here on ebay and advertised as everything works. I thought I would contact you first to see if you would help share the costs to replace these parts since the SC was not in working condition. The bypass valve was $300 and the injectors were $240 (only needed 4).
thanks,
David
- eng2244
Dear eng2244,
Hello,
The blower worked perfectly on the car we took it off of before selling it. It made 578 rear wheel horsepower with that pulley on it and a 4lb lower. If any parts of it weren't in working order it certainly wouldn't have done so well on our chassis dyno. We apologize for any difficulty you may have had but we question the condition you are reporting.
Jimmy
- perfomaceautosport
From: eng2244
To: perfomaceautosport
Subject: Re: Other: eng2244 sent a message about 03-04 SVT Cobra Kenne Bell 2.2 POLISHED Supercharger & 60lb SD Injectors #320821725921
Sent Date: Feb-15-12 06:31:15 PST
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I figured that would be your response.
Why was the blower taken off the car in the first place?
I know this is a 'he said/she said' situation, but the fact remains that the bypass valve had a leak and some injectors were not spraying as they should. You could call XXXX XXXX at XXXX XXXX in Longwood, FL at xxx-xxx-xxxx. If you question the parts as he's the one who's installing. His shop is quite well known and extremely reputable.
I just thought I'd give you the opportunity to help rectify the situation first, as established by ebay rules.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:15 AM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
Dear eng2244,
David,
We don't want anyone to be unhappy but what exactly do you expect us to do here? As stated in the auction, the blower was removed to put the car back to stock. It was/is a very valuable 2003 Saleen Cobra that they made very few of. We sold these parts for our client off the car to go back against his labor bill here. We didn't make a dime on the sale at your bid of $2500 which was extremely reasonable. We're in a spot here but we're willing to try and make you happy even at a loss for us.
- perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I JUST got a call from XXXX who had to take the blower back off. The car hasn't been driven 400 miles and he said the oil in the SC was empty and oil was all over the rotors!! Now I know why it was taken off the car in the first place. I'm going to find who had the car worked at your shop and I'm going to find out the truth. Chances are this person talks on the forums.
What I want is to return this item that was completely defective. I don't even mind giving you both, the old bypass valve, and the new one I bought.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:40 AM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
Dear eng2244,
We have a call in to XXXX at XXXX about this. I will get back to you after we speak with him.
- perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I haven't heard back yet, though I know you spoke with him.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 10:14 AM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
Dear eng2244,
David,
We did indeed speak at length with Mr. XXXX several times to get the full story. We know that the blower worked perfectly here and
on your car while being tuned and being driven by you for several hundred miles. We also know that the car had a stumble in it that
XXXX diagnosed by replacing the injectors that YOU had cleaned. The injectors worked perfectly here before YOU had them cleaned. And if there were a problem with the injectors afterwards, the company that YOU had clean them should have informed you of it. Mr. XXXX informed you that you had to keep an eye on the oil level on ANY Kenne Bell blower. You neglected to do so and baked the seals out of it. We are not responsible in any way for your negligence in this matter as Mr. XXXX also informed you. We are not in the habit of being threatened nor bullied over the internet. Should you feel the need to slander us in any way on any forums be prepared for swift and immediate litigation.
We will also post the complete facts in any thread to defend ourselves, our position and for a true representation of your negligence in this matter. Any used item such as this is sold as is with no warranty expressed or implied. We would offer a $300 credit to you to cover the cost of the bypass valve only.
Jimmy@PAS
- perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I had the injectors cleaned at the request of XXXX XXXX. It is also stated in the installation instructions for Kenne Bell on step #54 to clean the injectors. I are stating I should have NOT followed the instructions straight from the manufacturer? I can also show you right on the Kenne Bell website that it is recommended interval for checking the SC oil is the same as the engine oil. This would be at minimum 3000 miles. I only went 300 miles and that was while I was breaking in a clutch. That only time that SC on my car seen any boost is when XXXX was having it tuned. XXXX has already given me a statement that he believes the oil leak was there before we got it. Yes the supercharger will still work when it's leaking, so you can say it worked just fine. But i'm sure you weren't running the car enough to know how much it was leaking, as you said this was for a customer. So you were selling the supercharger for him, not knowing the history of it. I can even accept the fact that the injectors COULD have been fouled during the cleaning process, although thats highly unlikely.
I don't really know where you're getting the 'internet bullying' from, as I never made mention of any slandering/defacing you or your company. I only made mention of seeking the truth and history. But if you feel the need to make a useless threat of litigation, then so be it.
I appreciate you taking responsibility for the bypass valve. That also lets me know that you do have a "what's fair" conscious on your head. But it is quite an obvious fact that the seals were damaged before I recieved the SC. I am asking that you either take back the whole product, including the new bypass valve, and trying selling it to someone else, or at least go in half with me on getting this repaired. It's not cheap, I know... but I believe I'm being more than fair on this.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:45 PM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
Dear eng2244,
My best suggestion is to get a quote from Kenne Bell for repairing the used blower and ,I will present it to the customer. I credited his bill the full amount of the sale price.I will be happy to see if he feels like helping out event though these parts were used with no warranty. He is a very reasonable person but I do not want to call him with out having some figures on the repairs.
Mark
perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
Mark I appreciate your response, but what happened between you and your customer is between you two. I can't help that you credited him with the full selling price after selling his supercharger. This transaction is only between Performance AutoSports and myself. Your customer has nothing to do with this transaction except to note that the supercharger wasn't actually owned by your company.
I have opened up a case with Ebay on this item. I have no problem rescinding this case if you guys decide to accept the bill to have it sent to Kenne Bell and have it rebuilt. I was quoted at $799 from Kenne Bell.
Dear eng2244,
We would offer you a $500 credit towards the rebuild at Kenne Bell.
This is more than half of the $799 cost which below you state that you would agree to.
Jimmy@PAS
perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I will accept $1000.00, which would include the cost for the bypass valve, rebuild, and shipping. Or you can take it back if you'd like.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:13 AM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
Dear eng2244,
That is unacceptable. Our $500 good faith offer is our final one. You are not being truthful about what Mr. XXXX has said
as we have had multiple conversations with him regarding this and you. As you can see in the pictures that were shot for it to be sold,
the blower is clean inside. The rotors are the original light gold color as they come from KB. Had this blower ever have been eating oil
they would be stained a much darker color like any other engine component. This blower was fine as shipped and worked perfectly on the car
we took it off of. Our feedback speaks for itself. We resent your intimation that we would knowingly sell a damaged part to anyone.
That is absolutely not the case here.
Jimmy@PAS
- perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
Why don't we have a conference call with myself, XXXX, Mark (the only person Jake has been conversing with), and yourself to get to the bottom of this.
I just got off the phone with XXXX again and he said that he told Mark it could not of been my fault. And that there is no way, that in only 300 miles, the oil should have been that low unless the problem already existed. Now I just heard this again straight from XXXX, so the only one not being truthful is you, although I think it's more that you've been misinformed or something was lost during the translation. But either way, a conference call would take care of that.
Besides I may be misunderstanding your offer. Is that $500 total, or the 500 plus the 300 for the bypass valve?
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:14 PM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:09 PM, David Spoor <[email protected]> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "eBay Member: perfomaceautosport" <[email protected]>
Date: Feb 22, 2012 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Details about item: eng2244 sent a message about 03-04 SVT Cobra Kenne Bell 2.2 POLISHED Supercharger & 60lb SD Injectors #320821725921
To: <[email protected]>
Dear eng2244,
We have no interest in a conference call to discuss what we already know.
Our offer is $500 total and is good until end of business today at 6pm.
After that, it and any further discussion is off the table.
- perfomaceautosport
I was actually going the sellers offer and just chalk this up to 'lesson learned'
Now the seller's last email said the offer is good until the end of business day. That gave me a whole 1 hour and 15 minutes to respond. I didn't even check my email until the next day so that option had already ended.
Sorry, I know this is long.... but probably interesting for most. I'd really like to get everyone's opinion on what they think. If you have more questions, just let me know.
I would like to get everyone's opinion on whether you think it was my fault or it came this way. Below is a post of the entire email thread that the seller and I had. I changed every reference of my mechanic's name to XXXX to keep him out of this...
From: eng2244
To: perfomaceautosport
Subject: Other: eng2244 sent a message about 03-04 SVT Cobra Kenne Bell 2.2 POLISHED Supercharger & 60lb SD Injectors #320821725921
Sent Date: Feb-14-12 12:58:00 PST
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I bought this Supercharger on 1/9/12. My mechanic and tuner had found out that the bypass valve on the back was causing a vaccuum leak. Basically the shaft that the blade sits on was allowing air out of the casing where it's mounted. They also found that several of the injectors are faulty. I know that the SC was being sold as 'used' here on ebay and advertised as everything works. I thought I would contact you first to see if you would help share the costs to replace these parts since the SC was not in working condition. The bypass valve was $300 and the injectors were $240 (only needed 4).
thanks,
David
- eng2244
Dear eng2244,
Hello,
The blower worked perfectly on the car we took it off of before selling it. It made 578 rear wheel horsepower with that pulley on it and a 4lb lower. If any parts of it weren't in working order it certainly wouldn't have done so well on our chassis dyno. We apologize for any difficulty you may have had but we question the condition you are reporting.
Jimmy
- perfomaceautosport
From: eng2244
To: perfomaceautosport
Subject: Re: Other: eng2244 sent a message about 03-04 SVT Cobra Kenne Bell 2.2 POLISHED Supercharger & 60lb SD Injectors #320821725921
Sent Date: Feb-15-12 06:31:15 PST
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I figured that would be your response.
Why was the blower taken off the car in the first place?
I know this is a 'he said/she said' situation, but the fact remains that the bypass valve had a leak and some injectors were not spraying as they should. You could call XXXX XXXX at XXXX XXXX in Longwood, FL at xxx-xxx-xxxx. If you question the parts as he's the one who's installing. His shop is quite well known and extremely reputable.
I just thought I'd give you the opportunity to help rectify the situation first, as established by ebay rules.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:15 AM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
Dear eng2244,
David,
We don't want anyone to be unhappy but what exactly do you expect us to do here? As stated in the auction, the blower was removed to put the car back to stock. It was/is a very valuable 2003 Saleen Cobra that they made very few of. We sold these parts for our client off the car to go back against his labor bill here. We didn't make a dime on the sale at your bid of $2500 which was extremely reasonable. We're in a spot here but we're willing to try and make you happy even at a loss for us.
- perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I JUST got a call from XXXX who had to take the blower back off. The car hasn't been driven 400 miles and he said the oil in the SC was empty and oil was all over the rotors!! Now I know why it was taken off the car in the first place. I'm going to find who had the car worked at your shop and I'm going to find out the truth. Chances are this person talks on the forums.
What I want is to return this item that was completely defective. I don't even mind giving you both, the old bypass valve, and the new one I bought.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:40 AM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
Dear eng2244,
We have a call in to XXXX at XXXX about this. I will get back to you after we speak with him.
- perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I haven't heard back yet, though I know you spoke with him.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 10:14 AM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
Dear eng2244,
David,
We did indeed speak at length with Mr. XXXX several times to get the full story. We know that the blower worked perfectly here and
on your car while being tuned and being driven by you for several hundred miles. We also know that the car had a stumble in it that
XXXX diagnosed by replacing the injectors that YOU had cleaned. The injectors worked perfectly here before YOU had them cleaned. And if there were a problem with the injectors afterwards, the company that YOU had clean them should have informed you of it. Mr. XXXX informed you that you had to keep an eye on the oil level on ANY Kenne Bell blower. You neglected to do so and baked the seals out of it. We are not responsible in any way for your negligence in this matter as Mr. XXXX also informed you. We are not in the habit of being threatened nor bullied over the internet. Should you feel the need to slander us in any way on any forums be prepared for swift and immediate litigation.
We will also post the complete facts in any thread to defend ourselves, our position and for a true representation of your negligence in this matter. Any used item such as this is sold as is with no warranty expressed or implied. We would offer a $300 credit to you to cover the cost of the bypass valve only.
Jimmy@PAS
- perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I had the injectors cleaned at the request of XXXX XXXX. It is also stated in the installation instructions for Kenne Bell on step #54 to clean the injectors. I are stating I should have NOT followed the instructions straight from the manufacturer? I can also show you right on the Kenne Bell website that it is recommended interval for checking the SC oil is the same as the engine oil. This would be at minimum 3000 miles. I only went 300 miles and that was while I was breaking in a clutch. That only time that SC on my car seen any boost is when XXXX was having it tuned. XXXX has already given me a statement that he believes the oil leak was there before we got it. Yes the supercharger will still work when it's leaking, so you can say it worked just fine. But i'm sure you weren't running the car enough to know how much it was leaking, as you said this was for a customer. So you were selling the supercharger for him, not knowing the history of it. I can even accept the fact that the injectors COULD have been fouled during the cleaning process, although thats highly unlikely.
I don't really know where you're getting the 'internet bullying' from, as I never made mention of any slandering/defacing you or your company. I only made mention of seeking the truth and history. But if you feel the need to make a useless threat of litigation, then so be it.
I appreciate you taking responsibility for the bypass valve. That also lets me know that you do have a "what's fair" conscious on your head. But it is quite an obvious fact that the seals were damaged before I recieved the SC. I am asking that you either take back the whole product, including the new bypass valve, and trying selling it to someone else, or at least go in half with me on getting this repaired. It's not cheap, I know... but I believe I'm being more than fair on this.
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:45 PM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
Dear eng2244,
My best suggestion is to get a quote from Kenne Bell for repairing the used blower and ,I will present it to the customer. I credited his bill the full amount of the sale price.I will be happy to see if he feels like helping out event though these parts were used with no warranty. He is a very reasonable person but I do not want to call him with out having some figures on the repairs.
Mark
perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
Mark I appreciate your response, but what happened between you and your customer is between you two. I can't help that you credited him with the full selling price after selling his supercharger. This transaction is only between Performance AutoSports and myself. Your customer has nothing to do with this transaction except to note that the supercharger wasn't actually owned by your company.
I have opened up a case with Ebay on this item. I have no problem rescinding this case if you guys decide to accept the bill to have it sent to Kenne Bell and have it rebuilt. I was quoted at $799 from Kenne Bell.
Dear eng2244,
We would offer you a $500 credit towards the rebuild at Kenne Bell.
This is more than half of the $799 cost which below you state that you would agree to.
Jimmy@PAS
perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
I will accept $1000.00, which would include the cost for the bypass valve, rebuild, and shipping. Or you can take it back if you'd like.
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 10:13 AM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
Dear eng2244,
That is unacceptable. Our $500 good faith offer is our final one. You are not being truthful about what Mr. XXXX has said
as we have had multiple conversations with him regarding this and you. As you can see in the pictures that were shot for it to be sold,
the blower is clean inside. The rotors are the original light gold color as they come from KB. Had this blower ever have been eating oil
they would be stained a much darker color like any other engine component. This blower was fine as shipped and worked perfectly on the car
we took it off of. Our feedback speaks for itself. We resent your intimation that we would knowingly sell a damaged part to anyone.
That is absolutely not the case here.
Jimmy@PAS
- perfomaceautosport
Dear perfomaceautosport,
Why don't we have a conference call with myself, XXXX, Mark (the only person Jake has been conversing with), and yourself to get to the bottom of this.
I just got off the phone with XXXX again and he said that he told Mark it could not of been my fault. And that there is no way, that in only 300 miles, the oil should have been that low unless the problem already existed. Now I just heard this again straight from XXXX, so the only one not being truthful is you, although I think it's more that you've been misinformed or something was lost during the translation. But either way, a conference call would take care of that.
Besides I may be misunderstanding your offer. Is that $500 total, or the 500 plus the 300 for the bypass valve?
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 3:14 PM, eBay Member: perfomaceautosport < <email address removed per policy>> wrote:
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 4:09 PM, David Spoor <[email protected]> wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "eBay Member: perfomaceautosport" <[email protected]>
Date: Feb 22, 2012 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: Details about item: eng2244 sent a message about 03-04 SVT Cobra Kenne Bell 2.2 POLISHED Supercharger & 60lb SD Injectors #320821725921
To: <[email protected]>
Dear eng2244,
We have no interest in a conference call to discuss what we already know.
Our offer is $500 total and is good until end of business today at 6pm.
After that, it and any further discussion is off the table.
- perfomaceautosport
I was actually going the sellers offer and just chalk this up to 'lesson learned'
Now the seller's last email said the offer is good until the end of business day. That gave me a whole 1 hour and 15 minutes to respond. I didn't even check my email until the next day so that option had already ended.
Sorry, I know this is long.... but probably interesting for most. I'd really like to get everyone's opinion on what they think. If you have more questions, just let me know.
Last edited:
I think he sold a customer's supercharger without knowing the condition of the blower. With oil leaking, it will still perform on the dyno. But I would bet that the seller didn't spend any significant time with the blower to know whether or not it leaked.
