Why your Dyno numbers mean Nothing.

[Voltwings]

So i see a lot of threads in here where people talk about Dyno numbers, but i don't think they truly understand the point or purpose. Sure every once in a while the sharp witted person makes the comment that the weather was different, the altitude is different, correction factor... There are things i feel most of us know.
However, tell me you haven't seen the "Thats all you made? I made 4xx with just an intake, x-pipe and bama tune!" comments once or twice. ^^ That statement literally means nothing.

A dyno is simply a means of tracking gains. If your bone stock 5.0 makes 300 whp on your baseline, and 380 when you're done modding, you have made 80 whp over stock. If your bone stock 5.0 makes 400 whp on your baseline and 480 when you're done modding, guess what... you have still made 80 whp over stock. The gains in both situations are exactly the same, the starting and ending numbers are useful for nothing other than tracking gains... or bragging rights i guess.
Yes, obviously there is a ball park every car should more or less fall into, but in the end its still superficial. This is why simply going in to a random shop and just getting a dyno and saying "i made XXX horsepower," doesn't really mean anything to anyone... Congratulations, but how much is that really? Or as they like to say "What does your dyno sheet trap?"

If the car making 380 whp in the above scenario raced the 480 whp car, who would win? Well, based on dyno sheets alone, the 480 whp car obviously. Well, considering these are both 5.0's that have made 80 whp over stock, we can actually assume the race would be pretty close. This is typically where your "driver mod," "sandbagging," and all matter of other comments come into play, because people just don't really understand a dynos operation i feel.

Below is a semi-satirical video made by AMS which touches on the subject of dyno manipulation. Not to say a shop will willingly manipulate their numbers, but to show how variances across the board can lead to different numbers, on top of other variables.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDwjfZvmPHg

 

[Troponin]

I take them with a grain of salt simply because every dyno is different. it's great to know for maximizing power gains etc, but, dynos can read so differently, you should never compare your numbers to someone that used another dyno.

A dyno is simply a tool. It's kind of like body fat analyzers. Most of them are way off, but as long as they are consistent, it at least gives you an idea if you're going in the right direction.

 

[92fiveohfox]

Its all about track times.

 

[Shaun@AED]

Damn straight!
My Chassis dyno is simply a tool I use to safely and effectively tune vehicles and validate gains/losses.

 

[Swine]

Right on, best thread on here in a while.

 

[bobster]

I'm old school so I kind of laugh at the Dyno racers of today! It can be an effective tool but I've never seen so many people spend thousands of dollars on mods and $450-600 on the dyno but not spend $25 to go (truly) test the car and themselves at the track. They're totally satisfied with that graph that can be altered to show better numbers. I always got a kick out of beating the guys with big dyno #'s with a much less hp car so the excuses can start flooding in. Best analogy I use is is having a 12inch unit that everyone is envy over but not having the ability to use it when it time!

 

[Troponin]

I'm old school so I kind of laugh at the Dyno racers of today! It can be an effective tool but I've never seen so many people spend thousands of dollars on mods and $450-600 on the dyno but not spend $25 to go (truly) test the car and themselves at the track. They're totally satisfied with that graph that can be altered to show better numbers. I always got a kick out of beating the guys with big dyno #'s with a much less hp car so the excuses can start flooding in. Best analogy I use is is having a 12inch unit that everyone is envy over but not having the ability to use it when it time!

Ever see the dyno queen Harley Destroyers? Those bikes never see a drag strip, but that's what they were designed for. Kind of a shame, but I guess whatever lifts your skirt. It's like denying a prostitute her pay day, isn't it?

 

[4VFTW]

It's like denying a prostitute her pay day, isn't it?

actually know...That would be caled "Pimp Status"


guess i'm old school as well, because I have only ever had a car on a dyno once and that was only to replicate an issue that occured at unsafe street speeds , I didn't even get a power figure from it.


nobody cares what your car made on the Dyno...NOBODY. now take it to the track and show us how good it runs.

 

[Bdubbs]

Yeah I proved to many that dyno's don't really mean squat! I was so pissed when my 347 stroker with a c4 only laid down 325rwhp and the same in tq! Hit up the 1/8 mile track and it was running 7.3's@95mph, with a soft 1.59 60ft!

 

[Elwood617]

Synod are great for dinner tuning and validating gains from changes, but that is it. Nice post Voltwings

 

[TimMcC]

Can't race a Dyno sheet, you can wipe your ass with it though.

 

[grnenvy]

I see a lot of turbo setups that put out some crazy numbers but the ET doesn't match.

 

[pufferfish]

We, as modders, need to understand how a new part may perform on our car. We use the data and experience from others to tell us if the expense is worth it. There are some that have been able to do back to back dynoing on before and after individual parts go on, but more times than not, it's a grouping of parts. That doesn't necessarily make dynos inaccurate. They show in real time, what an engine is doing. It's up to those who use this info to make decisions on our own next purchase. I would rather live in a world that all the dyno numbers were out there, accurate or not, rather than a world without any posts with dyno numbers. I can make my own decision about my next purchase based on the varying dyno numbers on a particular part or grouping of parts far better than "seat of the pants feel" or 1/4 mile times.

I include 1/4 mile times because it only tells max effort. I drive my car on the street, so I like to see the torque curve to tell me whether it would be a turd without winding the piss out of it (which is where my opinion lies on comp cams).

I say keep the dyno numbers coming, just post them with the dyno graphs. That's where their real use is!

 

[Elwood617]

We, as modders, need to understand how a new part may perform on our car. We use the data and experience from others to tell us if the expense is worth it. There are some that have been able to do back to back dynoing on before and after individual parts go on, but more times than not, it's a grouping of parts. That doesn't necessarily make dynos inaccurate. They show in real time, what an engine is doing. It's up to those who use this info to make decisions on our own next purchase. I would rather live in a world that all the dyno numbers were out there, accurate or not, rather than a world without any posts with dyno numbers. I can make my own decision about my next purchase based on the varying dyno numbers on a particular part or grouping of parts far better than "seat of the pants feel" or 1/4 mile times.

I include 1/4 mile times because it only tells max effort. I drive my car on the street, so I like to see the torque curve to tell me whether it would be a turd without winding the piss out of it (which is where my opinion lies on comp cams).

I say keep the dyno numbers coming, just post them with the dyno graphs. That's where their real use is!

Yes and no, being able to see an increase in performance and where in the curve that increase happens is very useful.
But, I'll take real testing on the street and track over a dyno. Just as an example, I had a tune from BBR a couple of years ago. Made plenty of power, good looking dyno graph with gains every where over my stock tune.
But on the track and on the road it sucked because the off idle transition/ throttle response sucked. It was a pain in the ass to drive smooth and rev match with. I hated the tune and it made driving my car a chore.
I'll take real world testing over dyno graphs everyday of the week.

 

[pufferfish]

Unless you are trying to tell me what parts to stay away from due to part throttle response issues, it is irrelevant to what I was talking about.

 

[Voltwings]

I agree that it is useful to have threads with posts of Dynos and numbers. 90% of what i care about in my dyno is the curve, where is my power, the other 10% is the numbers. My main point Pufferfish was the people who go around comparing numbers saying " i made more with a bama tune, your tuner sucks," or "i made more with less mods, i would go get another dyno to check the numbers." If the graph is the exact same, the numbers are just slightly higher, does your car now miraculously perform better? That was more or less my argument.

 

[Elwood617]

Unless you are trying to tell me what parts to stay away from due to part throttle response issues, it is irrelevant to what I was talking about.

No it's not, the dyno graph showed great gains. By your reasoning, this would be a great tune, and a great purchase. However, in the real world, it had terrible throttle response, and made driving my car a chore. In summary, a dyno graph by itself, is worthless.

 

[pufferfish]

Voltwings: agreed. Too many posers posting as an extension of their dicks. I still want to use their info to formulate my options of a part or grouping of parts, so I tolerate them .

Elwood: still missing the point. If you have tune issues, don't throw the part out the door, find a tuner that can work their magic to make the part street friendly. The drive ability has nothing to do with max effort. I have access to a magnificent tuner (Adam at rev auto) who can make any part work perfectly on the street. I'm still making my decision on dyno charts regardless of what drive ability issues you may have....because it's IRRELEVANT to me and my decision making process.

 

[Elwood617]

Voltwings: agreed. Too many posers posting as an extension of their dicks. I still want to use their info to formulate my options of a part or grouping of parts, so I tolerate them .

Elwood: still missing the point. If you have tune issues, don't throw the part out the door, find a tuner that can work their magic to make the part street friendly. The drive ability has nothing to do with max effort. I have access to a magnificent tuner (Adam at rev auto) who can make any part work perfectly on the street. I'm still making my decision on dyno charts regardless of what drive ability issues you may have....because it's IRRELEVANT to me and my decision making process.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. No parts were changed. The tune sucked. It was great on the DYNO, not in real life. A dyno graph by itself, is worthless.
I have a great tuner, we tune at the track and on the street. When we can't get any more it of it, we will fine tune at the dyno.
I don't buy tunes or parts based on dyno numbers.

 

[bobster]

If pick parts that go well with each other in the first place, it will run much better and be easier for the tuner to tune his magic. You shouldn't just reach in a bag pull out some mods and expect your tuner to make it all right! Not sure how many of you ever had older cars (carb/old 5.0) but back then you really had to pick the right combination to get a good running car, there were still things you could do to "tune" things better but I feel a lot of new mustang owners just feel they will buy what ever mod they can get a good deal on or come across and their car should run as good as everyone else's. Another thing that kills me is a mustang can spin the heck out of some tires stock and you get these guys that just wanna add power but they never buy a tire that will let them really feel how good their car runs. All I hear is I drive it on the street, if they would buy a Nitto drag radial or better yet a ET street on some different rims they would be hooked in more ways than one!