Who is making 700+ on stock oil pump gears

[syclone50]

Building a boss short block for my twin turbo setup and was wondering about the oil pump gears.

I am sure they are a nice upgrade but dam $300 for a couple of machined pieces. I know everyone will say $300 is cheap insurance for your motor but it seems like these pieces should be $150 or so.

I haven't seen too many people with actual failures. Seems kinda of like the whole 03-04 cobra IRS braces. A couple of failures and everyone jumps on the paranoia band wagon?!?!?!


Who is making big numbers on stock pump gears and for how long.

Who has had a failure of the stock gears...THEMSELVES

 

[Kyle55]

Building a boss short block for my twin turbo setup and was wondering about the oil pump gears.

I am sure they are a nice upgrade but dam $300 for a couple of machined pieces. I know everyone will say $300 is cheap insurance for your motor but it seems like these pieces should be $150 or so.

I haven't seen too many people with actual failures. Seems kinda of like the whole 03-04 cobra IRS braces. A couple of failures and everyone jumps on the paranoia band wagon?!?!?!


Who is making big numbers on stock pump gears and for how long.

Who has had a failure of the stock gears...THEMSELVES

Oil Pump Gears should be the first thing you do it is the heart of the engine. Don't make the mistake of not putting them in or ur motor is going to melt. If anything put in Oil Pump gears and leave out the boss short block.

 

[TexasStang4585]

Don't be a cheap and upgrade the gears...../thread

 

[NickSezz]

Like said above...cheap insurance. Ford Racing offers this product for a reason: 5.0L TI-VCT BILLET STEEL GEROTOR OIL PUMP

I have seen 05+ Mustangs break stock gears, Roush Yates destroyed some on Boss 302 test cars and TSS even offers gears to our Supercharged Ford Raptor customers since they are prone to failure at as little as 500-500whp.

The machine work for these gears is very precise and requires special tooling to cut the hard material. I would say $300 is a bargain.

 

[GHIG'13]

If it was me and I was spending the money on a Boss shortblock I would do the gears and not even think twice about it. With that said, I am with the OP, why are the gears so blasted expensive?

 

[ebrow21]

Ran a 73mm 2.3L whipple on a torco tune for over a year and 4k miles on stock opg. Many many drag strip passes running 10.0-10.4. No failure, engine perfect in teardown. I did, however, install an ATI balancer the moment I went to the smaller pulley.

A more focused question would be, "Who has broken stock OPG with an aftermarket balancer?" I believe that answer may be zero.

Edit: I personally know two local coyote owners who had an OPG failure. Stock balancer, 7250+ rpm, 650+ hp.

 

[CPRsm]

With that said, I am with the OP, why are the gears so blasted expensive?

It all adds up. Idk what material they use, but sure it's not cheap hot rolled garbage. Presicion grinding isn't fast or cheap. Once it's all done, heat treat it, check tolerances again, then spin test each one, and mark it up for profit. When you can look past and see them more than "two pieces of metal," 300 is CHEAP lol

 

[GHIG'13]

It all adds up. Idk what material they use, but sure it's not cheap hot rolled garbage. Presicion grinding isn't fast or cheap. Once it's all done, heat treat it, check tolerances again, then spin test each one, and mark it up for profit. When you can look past and see them more than "two pieces of metal," 300 is CHEAP lol

Makes sense.

 

[mattaglover]

I dont think it is the power numbers that break them. It is the over 7,000 RPM that breaks them.

 

[NickSezz]

I dont think it is the power numbers that break them. It is the over 7,000 RPM that breaks them.

High powered cars can break the gears by shocking them during quick on/off throttle conditions. If you launch a car off the line and it lights up the tires some drivers will pedal the throttle to try and salvage the run. This technique is what can break stock gears with a high power setup (not necessarily at high RPMS) since the quick on/off throttle command shocks the gears. This is especially present on crank driven superchargers since the blower wants to slow the motor down when off the throttle. Most of the Raptor failures I have heard about are in off road supercharged trucks where it is very common to pedal your way through the terrain.

High RPM can cause gear failure as well due to excessive harmonics and higher oil pressure.

You can break a glass by dropping it and you can break a glass when singing at the right pitch...

 

[vortecd]

A more focused question would be, "Who has broken stock OPG with an aftermarket balancer?" I believe that answer may be zero.

Edit: I personally know two local coyote owners who had an OPG failure. Stock balancer, 7250+ rpm, 650+ hp.

There has been OPG failures with an aftermarket balancer. One was with an Innovators West

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

i know its not a Coyote but I can point you to three Mach1s without even having to think about it with IW crank pulleys, prochargers, 7000rpm limiters (or less) and shattered stock oil pump gears

 

[Scott8583]

My tuner broke his at 680whp with a TVS Automatic car... He told me to keep it under 650whp till I get oil pump gears, rods & pistons...

It didn't happen to me, but it wasn't something I read on the internet. Lol!

 

[mattaglover]

High powered cars can break the gears by shocking them during quick on/off throttle conditions. If you launch a car off the line and it lights up the tires some drivers will pedal the throttle to try and salvage the run. This technique is what can break stock gears with a high power setup (not necessarily at high RPMS) since the quick on/off throttle command shocks the gears. This is especially present on crank driven superchargers since the blower wants to slow the motor down when off the throttle. Most of the Raptor failures I have heard about are in off road supercharged trucks where it is very common to pedal your way through the terrain.

High RPM can cause gear failure as well due to excessive harmonics and higher oil pressure.

You can break a glass by dropping it and you can break a glass when singing at the right pitch...

I should have wrote that different. When I said high rpm I should have said hitting the rev limiter. Its basic the same thing you are saying about shock.

 

[zachcrosen]

I'm running 654/600 at 15# thru a VMP TVS and manual trans. Been boosted for about a year and a half and maybe 6000 miles with no issues. I've had maybe 25-30 passes at the drag strip. There is a guy in NJ who broke his gears and blew his motor with his TVS setup and automatic. I think he was pushing similar hp/tq numbers.

 

[syclone50]

High powered cars can break the gears by shocking them during quick on/off throttle conditions. If you launch a car off the line and it lights up the tires some drivers will pedal the throttle to try and salvage the run. This technique is what can break stock gears with a high power setup (not necessarily at high RPMS) since the quick on/off throttle command shocks the gears. This is especially present on crank driven superchargers since the blower wants to slow the motor down when off the throttle. Most of the Raptor failures I have heard about are in off road supercharged trucks where it is very common to pedal your way through the terrain.

High RPM can cause gear failure as well due to excessive harmonics and higher oil pressure.

You can break a glass by dropping it and you can break a glass when singing at the right pitch...

Best response so far, Thanks!
This makes perfect sense and explains WHY! Too many people doing just cause its good insurance, well so is ARP hardware, sleeve cylinders and so on. My question was to hear from people who have had a failure and were making a good amount of power. That list seem pretty short so far.

Companies are making and selling us coyote guys head cooling mods too but I think that is in the cheap insurance category as well. I don't know of one person with a failure do to NOT have the head cooling mod.

A lot of us own 03-04 cobras back in the day and got doopped into buying IRS braces and so on!?!?!?

 

[Shaun@AED]

NickSezz is correct.
It's the banging of the gears together that causes failure. Super thin oil will allow them to bang together more easily than thick oil. Detonation that shocks the crankshaft can cause the gears to bang together, severe misfire events at RPM that shock the crank can do it. Harmonics as well.
The only Oil Pump Gear failures I've seen from local customers have been engines using aftermarket dampers. We've seen 2 failures in the last 8 years.

 

[pickles]

I imagine staying off the rev limiter extends life of the gears as well.

 

[FIFTY]

What's your definition of "Super thin"?

 

[SCalla1384]

It all adds up. Idk what material they use, but sure it's not cheap hot rolled garbage. Presicion grinding isn't fast or cheap. Once it's all done, heat treat it, check tolerances again, then spin test each one, and mark it up for profit. When you can look past and see them more than "two pieces of metal," 300 is CHEAP lol

Agreed. I really don't think $300 for them is expensive at all.