Alky Control? Snow? Others? I dont care about price.
Have a 2.3 Whipple with a built motor and looking to extract a bit more power from pump gas...
Have a 2.3 Whipple with a built motor and looking to extract a bit more power from pump gas...
Whats the best Meth kit for S/C!?
- Thread starter Dave5.0
- Start date
I have personally owned an AEM and an AIS system, and installed several devils own kits on other cars. Hands down my favorite as far as fit / finish and especially the controller is Devils own. To an extent they're all the same thing, and it will almost come down to personal preference, but DO is certainly mine.
i have had both the snow kit and AEM and i have to say the aem is the better of the two quality wise. i also like how on the aem you can adjust the spray start and at how much it will spray depending on boost the snow kit uses maf volts. so i have mine hooked up to start spraying at 5lbs with 50% spray ramping up to 100% by 8lbs. meth works great and have put it on every F/I car iv owned...
I loved my AIS kit on my old 2v. Heard to many issues with snow pumps failing. May be a thing of the past now though..
Choices, choices!!!
Where do you get the meth? I read that windshield wiper fluid may work...
Where do you get the meth? I read that windshield wiper fluid may work...
certain wiper fluids yes; all wiper fluids, no. It depends on their methanol content (it keeps them from freezing in colder climates), and some have detergents in them that you dont want in your motor. However, thats not mustang specific, so a quick google search will let you know which ones are good and which ones are not, i luckily have access to methanol so i dont have that information off hand.
While its more expensive, you can also run denatured alcohol from your local hardware store; its predominatly Ethanol based and does a good job of cooling, although it doesnt have quite the same octane as methanol.
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Trunk mounted AIS kit on my with boost reference setup. Problem is finding someone to tune for it even with my smaller nozzle and diluted 40% meth 60% water the AFR starts to dip and fuel gets pulled. The car never ran well with meth if I can get someone to tune for it I know it will be great! I had Terry relocate the IAT so that I can see Temp at Manifold which I would like to be a fail safe ie if Air Temp is below a certain number call for this fuel so the car would hit a safe AFR, which could calculate meth's fuel content and the car would stop pulling fuel. I would only use for the track on the highway IAT's have been low even in 95 degree heat and 90% humidity. As far a fuel no problems here been using fuel catalyst from bnd and haven't seen any knock and have had my tuner review my logs and actually lowered timing parameters do to the knock sensors trying to add timing. So yes meth would be good thing if you have a tuner that figure out are computer and its ability to adjust fuel during WOT, otherwise I would only use it as water injection or not at all.
Im getting the AlkyControl complete kit.
I wonder how much guys are picking up with it using the Whipple 2.3? I predict Ill pick up some decent gains because I am pushing over 14 psi through this small blower!
I wonder how much guys are picking up with it using the Whipple 2.3? I predict Ill pick up some decent gains because I am pushing over 14 psi through this small blower!
I've done one AIS kit.
You will lose some power unless you tune for it.
If you tune for it... Just depends on how far you push it. What's your timing now?
Are you going to be running 100% meth or 50/50?
FYI..Most of the windshield washer is just 30%-40% meth.
You will lose some power unless you tune for it.
If you tune for it... Just depends on how far you push it. What's your timing now?
Are you going to be running 100% meth or 50/50?
FYI..Most of the windshield washer is just 30%-40% meth.
i disagree that you'll lose power unless you tune for it, unless the coyote does some funky stuff im just not aware of. Assuming you have an appropriatly sized nozzle, and the appropriate mix of methanol / water, it should only run better.
Too much water some people dont like to run any water at all) will not burn off completely and will replace either fuel or oxygen in the cylinders resulting in a loss of power. However, i wouldnt recommend running 100% methanol (not even from a safety standpoint) because water is much more effecient at absorbing heat, the methanol is just there to provide octane. I have done extensive testing on other platforms, both pre turbo and pre throttle body, and we found that an 80/20 mix by volume (most meth mixes are measured in weight) of methanol to water showed the best reduction in temperatures, as well as knock suppression.
Understanding it takes more flow for a PD blower than a turbo, i believe about 2x is actually the number, you would still have to be spraying a TON of WMI for it to not all be absorbed and rob power in the cylinders. Cooler is always better and will lead to more power. I imagine the Coyote has some sort of open loop fuel trimming as well to keep AFR's stable as well?
I understand where you are coming from... But your statment of:
because water is much more effecient at absorbing heat
What?? Ever poured alcohol on your hand? Is it COLD?? Or is water colder?
He needs more Octane, and this is a supplement instead of running race gas. No detonation protection required. (But it is nice added feature!)
I doubt the MS3's ever ran enough HP to worry about that problem.
Hp is not what dictates a need for octane, its effeciency. A 2.3L with a tiny turbo will obviously need more octane before a large free breathing v8. Also, maybe i dont understand your point, but the purpose of race gas (or additional octane in general) is detonation supresion? That being said, the methanol and water evaporate at different points in the process, allow me to elaborate.
You are correct that methanol evaporates quicker than water, it vaporizes almost instantly in the charge stream, whereas water does not typically do so until the combustion process begins. However, Methanol does have a lower latent heat of evaporation compared to water, meaning it cannot absorb as much heat before evaoprating (see below):
Taken from Google:
10Kg of air, Gasoline's latent heat capacity of 350KJ/Kg
Water's latent heat capacity of 2256KJ/Kg
Methanol's latent heat capacity of 1109KJ/Kg
Edit: I see what you mean now about needing octane. Basically knocking is a result of heat and pressure right? If you can lower the heat, you can increase (or maintain) the pressure while still avoiding knock. I'll admit that math is beyond me, and by no means am i saying dont use methanol at all, i'm simply developing on my last statement.
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You do not simply want to put a meth kit on these cars without having the car tuned for it.
If you do, you will more than likely lose power and pull timing due to running lean.
The coyote is different than previous gen cars. It compensates fuel alot more.
Most cars, if you dumped meth in, your adding more fuel to the car, along with a cooler intake charge.
With a coyote. The car is going to see the extra fuel in the widebands, and it's going to pull fuel from the injectors.
The problem is, meth has a stoich closer to 6 vs 14.64 for fuel. So, if your car is pulling say 15% fuel at a stoich of 14.64 and replacing it with 15% fuel with a stoich of 6.
Your effective stoich is around 13.34. We have seen this a few times with guys trying meth. We also saw it with out own car under testing.
Typically under wot with meth, you'll see your stft running about .85-.90 depending on the size of the jet.
If you do, you will more than likely lose power and pull timing due to running lean.
The coyote is different than previous gen cars. It compensates fuel alot more.
Most cars, if you dumped meth in, your adding more fuel to the car, along with a cooler intake charge.
With a coyote. The car is going to see the extra fuel in the widebands, and it's going to pull fuel from the injectors.
The problem is, meth has a stoich closer to 6 vs 14.64 for fuel. So, if your car is pulling say 15% fuel at a stoich of 14.64 and replacing it with 15% fuel with a stoich of 6.
Your effective stoich is around 13.34. We have seen this a few times with guys trying meth. We also saw it with out own car under testing.
Typically under wot with meth, you'll see your stft running about .85-.90 depending on the size of the jet.
Guys not to worry, I do my research!
My dyno tuner Adam at Rev Auto is tuning it.
My dyno tuner Adam at Rev Auto is tuning it.
That is very good to know, I was planning on running a very small nozzle even NA to help with the Houston heat, I'll be sure to account for it.
The highest amount of methanol in windshield washer fluid is only 32%. Which I beleive is valuecraft.
Your much better off mixing your own. 5 gallon drum of m1 methanol from VP is like $37. I mixed a 70% meth, 30% water mix.
Also, depending on who tuned it, you don't need a retune for meth. Usually the jets will richen the AFR up .5. Say afr was at 11.5 before, without a retune most likely it'll be 11.0. But, with the onboard widebands it may automatically correct for it.
So just like you guys, I ran meth on my supercharged fox's. Worked great.
So with all this crap about bad fuel (especially here on the east coast), has anyone tried running a small meth shot on a NA setup just for the octane boost ?
I always run 93 octane but I have to datalog (once the snow clears) and make sure the motor is isn't hearing detonation and pulling timing. Hence a small shot of meth (instead of octane booster).
Any thoughts ?
So with all this crap about bad fuel (especially here on the east coast), has anyone tried running a small meth shot on a NA setup just for the octane boost ?
I always run 93 octane but I have to datalog (once the snow clears) and make sure the motor is isn't hearing detonation and pulling timing. Hence a small shot of meth (instead of octane booster).
Any thoughts ?
My Dad's GN is pushing 22lbs and on a Snow Kit.. never given us any issues.. (knock on wood). I should come out with my own meth kit.. it will be blue and I will call it the Heisenberg....
I had an AIS trunk mount kit on my Cobalt SS and that kit worked flawlessly. If I put meth on my 12 it would be the same kit.
I would like to know how you are going to account for it? You have to be able to turn off the computers ability adjust fuel which from what Ive read is disable the second O2 sensor but then if you have a boost reference setup like mine when not seeing boost the car will run lean. I know that when I've asked some of the big guns in tunning they told me that they were not interested. I also had a speed3 with meth and loved it ran like it was 30 degrees out when it was 100. My best with cobb stage 2 tunning, downpipe and intake with meth was 13.4 at 108.5.
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