What Did I Do Wrong?

[s/cjackazz]

:??: I replaced my clutch and now it won't go into gear.

Parts used:
Spec Flywheel
Spec II clutch Kit
Pilot Bearing
FRPP TOB
Leathal TOB Retainer Sleeve
Stock cable and adjuster @ 1st...Steeda Firewall adjuster Kit w/stock cable today
Adjustable cable on stand-by

I can get it into gear while the car is not running. However, with the motor running it won't go into gear, Just clunks at each shift point. If I start it while in gear the whole car trys to move forward while the clutch is pressed in all the way and won't come out of gear until I turn the motor off. This isn't my first clutch install. Install went well, tranny lined up with ease. I thought maybe I screwed something up when I installed the tranny cover after the installation of the TOB sleeve but it's like the clutch does not release. I unscrewed the adjuster all the way Out, all the way IN and Half way with no change. Is it possable to install the clutch disk backwards I did notice the Engine Side wasn't marked I had to set it beside the stock one to see what side went forward. It didn't call for an adjustable pivot ball. I really don't want to pull the thing apart again. Can't drive the 93 cobra cuz it's wrecked that's on a different post to come. gotta go to work Monday. TOB is installed correctly like pictured on another thread. I'm lost

 

[Juiced46]

Definetely sounds like the clutch is not adjusted properly. If you are pressing on the clutch and the car is starting to move its definetely off. I wouldnt use an adjustable cable. Use a stock Ford OEM new cable and a good firewall adjuster.

How many hook quadrent are you running? If its a triple hook us the middle hook

 

[s/cjackazz]

I'm using the double hook from Steeda. It says to hook the cable on the hook that is closer to the fire wall... which I did with no luck so I hooked on the one furthest aft but just had to make up that differance in the F-wall adjuster. If I adjust it any further to throw the clutch fork more forward when the pedal is pressed in, the TOB will be contantly resting on the pressure plate fingures like your driving with your foot on the clutch pedal. Which is all bad. does that make sence? If I unthread the FWadjuster anymore(out) I'll need a pair of pliers to do it B/C I can't turn it any further by hand. It'll begin to be loaded (tension wise) by the P/plate.

 

[s/cjackazz]

Would Bolt TQ. Spec's on the P/Plate affect it. I did the install with out a Book I left my book in the trunk of the 03 cobra I traded in. You know what I mean? As you do a cross-torque pattern the fingures pull in uneven untill all the bolts are torqued down evenly. All I did was put the EE-B Gee-B's on with no TQ wrench but the P/Plate fingures are all even.

 

[Juiced46]

Would Bolt TQ. Spec's on the P/Plate affect it. I did the install with out a Book I left my book in the trunk of the 03 cobra I traded in. You know what I mean? As you do a cross-torque pattern the fingures pull in uneven untill all the bolts are torqued down evenly. All I did was put the EE-B Gee-B's on with no TQ wrench but the P/Plate fingures are all even.

yes that will most definitely affect it. The PP TQ is only around 25 ftlbs. If you tighten it without a TQ wrench the fingers will be uneven.

You need to adjust the TOB so it contacts the PP then back it off slightly so there is about 1/8" gap between them.

 

[03 KB Sonic Blue]

Anyone know about how far out the pivot ball should be set at?
Im having the same issue with a RAM twin disc. Right now if you measure from the tranny case to the top of the head of the pivot ball it measures 1 3/8". And it still wont engage. Just a thump every time you try to put it in a gear while running. If you look at the TOB its like right up againt the pressure plate fingers. So im kinda worried to back out the pivot ball anymore bec then maybe pushing on the pressure plate to much. But then again maybe im within a 1/8" of getting the clutch to engage.
Any help would be awsome guy.
Thanks,
Justin

 

[TRBO VNM]

the torq spec for the pp to flyhwheel is 33 lb-ft and then 60 degrees for the second stage. the helm book actually doesn't specifyc a sequence, but I usually to a crossing pattern anyway. the flywheel to crank is 63 lb-ft. and crossing pattern

on the pivot ball I usually put a couple washers behind it

us a stock cable.

personally, I have tried having the TOB not touching the pp, but I can't stand where the clutch engages and too much slop in the pedal. I usual have the pedal engage about the middle, maybe just slightly higher than that.

 

[Juruense]

Dunno if this will help, its copied and pasted from the FRPP FAQ:

Clutch/Transmission Installation Tips For 1986 and Newer V-8 Mustangs
The flywheel to crankshaft bolts must be hand-torqued to 75-85 ft./lbs. (302/351W) and 54-64 ft./lbs. (4.6L) The 10.5" pressure plate bolts must be torqued to 12-24 ft./lbs. and 11" pressure plate bolts to 33 ft./lbs. + 1/4 turn.

Be sure to use the alignment dowels in the flywheels. Pressure plate bolts and alignment dowels for the 10.5" clutch can be purchased using PN M-6397-A302. Pressure plate bolts N808969-S100 and alignment dowels D1FZ-6397-B are for the 11" pressure plate.

Evenly tighten bolts in a circular direction one turn at a time. Bellhousing alignment is crucial for proper clutch and transmission function.

Due to production tolerances of engine blocks and bellhousings, it is possible for the transmission centerline and crankshaft centerline to be misaligned. Misalignment can cause transmission gear wear, transmission jumping out of gear, driveline vibration, clutch pedal vibration, pilot bearing noise, release bearing noise or excessive clutch spin time. It may also damage the pilot bearing, transmission mainshaft bearing and clutch hub. It will also cause harsh shifting.

Before installing the bellhousing, check the block mounting surface and bellhousing surfaces for nicks, dents, paint debris, etc. These are some things that could affect the accuracy of your measurements.


How do I check bellhousing alignment?
The first step is to check bellhousing face runout. You are checking for parallelism of the back of the bellhousing to the back of the block. Install the dial indicator (as shown fig.1). Rotate the crankshaft and mark down the reading. Be sure to push the crankshaft against the thrust bearing for an accurate reading. Maximum runout is .010.

The next step is checking bellhousing bore runout. You are checking to see if the bellhousing bore centerline is aligned with crankshaft centerline. Reposition the dial indicator in the bellhousing bore (as shown fig. 2). Rotate the crankshaft and mark down the readings. Maximum out of concentricity is .015. If the bore runout is out of spec. install appropriate offset dowels.

Offset alignment dowels can be purchased from Lakewood.
.007 PN 15950
.014 PN 15960
.021 PN 15970

Figure 1

Figure 2

 

[s/cjackazz]

Thanks to everyone who replied! I'm taking it Monday to a shop. I'll post what they tell me. I'm not pulling the tranny out again I'm done with this. It's gotta be something simple or something I overlooked. I'm beating myself up over this. I do all maint. on my cars and this one has me stumped. I'm a TQ. Spec. freak, this time I didn't do it and it went south. Maybe I didn't drive a dowel pin all the way down on the flywheel or something like that.

 

[03 KB Sonic Blue]

yes please post up what they tell you. I'm giving it a few more tries before I give up. But its just so exhausting. Hopefully the info they tell you will be helpful to everyone on the forumns.

 

[03 KB Sonic Blue]

Any updates?

 

[s/cjackazz]

No luck Yet! They said there was nothing wrong with the install looked fine they think they are going to bolt everything back together and mess with the cable adjuster and make it work. They checked bellhousing/bellhousing bore to centerline alignment. For some reason the disk is draging. Is there a way to check for a bent clutch fork? .... Still clueless. I don't think the adjustment of the cable is the problem. If you adjust it any further then what it is, the the TOB will be turning with the motor all the time.

 

[Juiced46]

No luck Yet! They said there was nothing wrong with the install looked fine they think they are going to bolt everything back together and mess with the cable adjuster and make it work. They checked bellhousing/bellhousing bore to centerline alignment. For some reason the disk is draging. Is there a way to check for a bent clutch fork? .... Still clueless. I don't think the adjustment of the cable is the problem. If you adjust it any further then what it is, the the TOB will be turning with the motor all the time.

The TOB needs to be adjusted the other way, away from the PP. Are you sure you are adjusting it correctly? If the firewall adjuster doesnt let you go that far, put the cable on a different hook of the quadrent and re adjust. I was installing a steeda quadrent in a car and had a similar issue. It wouldnt let me get the right adjustment regardless of what hook it was on. Put a UPR triple hook quad, had it in the center and it adjusted perfect.

 

[s/cjackazz]

They set the adjuster so that the TOB is ever so close to the clutch forks without hitting. They advised me to install an OEM clutch. They did say that the PP Is not fully realeasing while the pedal is to the floor. I'm putting a new OEM clutch on. I'm done, this is costing me too many weekends and too much money. Taking offers on a used SPEC II clutch with 2 miles on it. Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[03 KB Sonic Blue]

Join the club. Im right there with you. There maybe a RAM twin disc for sale shortly to. Im putting the stock one back in ton or tom. Then bringing it to someone. Let them figure out what is going on.

 

[s/cjackazz]

The owner of the shop was there when I dropped the car off and the first question out of his mouth after I presented the problem was" did you install an aftermarket dual disk clutch?" almost like he has been through this in the past (He is a GT500 owner).
Today I asked him, " would if we installed a longer pivot ball/bolt to place the clutch fork more forward (Not hitting the P/Plate). To put the Tob more forward on the P/Plate(releasing the clutch disk) when the pedal is pressed in. Off course adjusting the Cable/Tob to where it is not riding the PPlate. He didn't say... but I got the feeling that he didn't want to rigg something to work.

 

[03 KB Sonic Blue]

Ive got the TOB within a 1/8" of a inch from the Pressure Plate. I dont know if thats to close. But we have been adjusting the pivot ball for days now. Im at a loss. I can get mine in 1st gear but no other gears. So weird.

 

[s/cjackazz]

Wife drove the car home today 4 days after I dropped it off. A OEM clutch was installed and $1508.00 MoF'N$$$$$$$$$$$$$ later, I can drive my car! I ate the cost of the SPEC II Assy(Not needed), Steeda Fire Wall adjuster Kit( not needed), and FRPP TOB(not needed) Spec Flywheel (Ummm nice to have). I doubt the SVT Performance Vendor will help me out, the clutch was purchased awhile ago. $1508.00 in repairs you ask ? Well they checked and removed the tranny/clucth assy. that I installed, reinstalled it, checked it, removed it again and installed a factory clutch ( @ $408.00) and put everything together for the third time. There was a 1 1/2 hot spot a my spec II P/Plate... The Tranny Tech told me that was the spot on the new Spec P/Plate where the P/Plate was dragging the disk keeping the the input shaft spinning, preventing me from being able to put the car into any gear. I'll post picture this weekend of the P/Plate. Boy talk about run on sentences!! I hope I added the right amount of installments they did. Anyways this is my story of the clunk after a clutch install. I'm going to have another drink now!!!!

 

[Juruense]

A little pricey when its all said and done but great news man! :beer:

 

[TRBO VNM]

did you ever think that there could have been something wrong with the parts? I would talk to the vendor and work on trying to get the parts back to Spec to be checked out. I haven't had any issues with their parts, but everyone makes mistakes and mistakes happen in manufacturing. Knowing you had a problem with it, who would buy it from you? I would see if spec would check it out and if there is something wrong based on manufacturing, I am sure they would make it right.