What A/F ratio are you guys running in your tunes

[redfire03 svt]

Guys,

I am getting my terminator tuned soon, I have a stock pulley with CAI and exhaust, what A/F ratio should I ask my tuner to run? What is going to get me my maximum gains, but still be safe.

 

[Rwick7]

just under 12 to 1. If you gonna tune it...why not pulley it also?

The sweet spot from what I have seen is about 12.2-12.3 to 1 but that is a little on the risky side

 

[DD2000GT]

That is a tricky question - and the only correct answer would be "the ratio you feel comfortable with". I run 12:1 across the board from 2k - 5500 RPMs, then dip into the upper 11:1 range above that. I feel this gives me the best balance between power and saftey IMO, and after 2 years of hard driving it has not proved me wrong.

Now there will be people say that 12:1 is crazy, and you would be asking for a piston melt down, and it is not a safe tune at all. No one - and I mean NO ONE - has shown me proof that this is an unsafe level after I have called several people out on the subject. Most people just repeat what they have heard - 11:1 or richer is the best and safest tune. While I will agree, 11:1 is a safer tune, I don't feel it is better.

In the end, it's just like what I said - you will have to make up your own mind what is a safe tune - AFTER you do extensive research. This is not the area to play guessing games with IMO. Lean for mean, or rich for safety.

Good luck,
Dan

 

[redfire03 svt]

What about 11.7- 11.9 from 2,500 rpms to 5,500 then dip it down to around 11.5 above that. I don't want to run a pulley because of warranty issues, and I have just put 4:10's in the beast, and coupled with a pulley would be craziness, no traction. That is why I went with gears instead of a pulley. I think with a good tune I should be around 435 rwhp, and that should let me run with you pullied guys that are 2.93 or bigger. Anymore input on A/F would be appreciated.

 

[Pred_mech]

your tune will void warranty

 

[DD2000GT]

What about 11.7- 11.9 from 2,500 rpms to 5,500 then dip it down to around 11.5 above that. I don't want to run a pulley because of warranty issues, and I have just put 4:10's in the beast, and coupled with a pulley would be craziness, no traction. That is why I went with gears instead of a pulley. I think with a good tune I should be around 435 rwhp, and that should let me run with you pullied guys that are 2.93 or bigger. Anymore input on A/F would be appreciated.

Your tune voided your engine warranty, and the gears voided the drive train. Might as well get the pulley :-D

I think your A/F ratios will suit you fine.

Good luck,
Dan

 

[ModsAway]

Agree on the warranty issue, heck knowing ford the first time you accelerated past the posted speed limit you voided your warranty.

Try one of the "safer" pullies as well then, maybe a 2.93?

 

[4WD-Open]

Now there will be people say that 12:1 is crazy, and you would be asking for a piston melt down, and it is not a safe tune at all. No one - and I mean NO ONE - has shown me proof that this is an unsafe level
Good luck,
Dan

Why not show yourself? Buy a wideband 02 a logger,EGT and monitor your state of tune for yourself. Every car with forced induction should monitor the actual a/f ratio, exhaust gas temperature and fuel pressure if its running boost levels beyond stock. You guys are a little more seat of pants and blindly tuned than what im used to. A hand full of gauges will save your precious boosted motor..

Not intended as a flame.

Lean for mean, or rich for safety.

Sometimes a little bit fat makes more power.

 

[rmgtc01]

Your tune voided your engine warranty, and the gears voided the drive train. Might as well get the pulley :-D

I think your A/F ratios will suit you fine.

Good luck,
Dan

If it's a predator tune and you take it out before taking it in and swap pulley back will you be good then???

 

[05 Roush]

That is a tricky question - and the only correct answer would be "the ratio you feel comfortable with". I run 12:1 across the board from 2k - 5500 RPMs, then dip into the upper 11:1 range above that. I feel this gives me the best balance between power and saftey IMO, and after 2 years of hard driving it has not proved me wrong.

Now there will be people say that 12:1 is crazy, and you would be asking for a piston melt down, and it is not a safe tune at all. No one - and I mean NO ONE - has shown me proof that this is an unsafe level after I have called several people out on the subject. Most people just repeat what they have heard - 11:1 or richer is the best and safest tune. While I will agree, 11:1 is a safer tune, I don't feel it is better.

In the end, it's just like what I said - you will have to make up your own mind what is a safe tune - AFTER you do extensive research. This is not the area to play guessing games with IMO. Lean for mean, or rich for safety.

Good luck,
Dan

Safety is relative. There have been quite a few folks on here who've fried pistions during high speed runs. If you're pulling WOT runs for extended periods of time (i.e. > 5000 RPM's for 20-30 seconds or longer), a 12:1 ratio will destroy a motor. Go for it! Post your broken pistons and rings here. :thumbsup:

Do not, I repeat, do not go lean on the tune re. high RPM WOT MAP settings. Stay at or below 11:1 and you'll be fine during these conditions. It's not worth the extra 20-25 RWHP IMHO. Any other time and you can go up to 12:1 with decent comfort. 11.7 gives even more cushion in case you get a bad batch of gas or some other weird thing.

 

[DD2000GT]

Safety is relative. There have been quite a few folks on here who've fried pistions during high speed runs. If you're pulling WOT runs for extended periods of time (i.e. > 5000 RPM's for 20-30 seconds or longer), a 12:1 ratio will destroy a motor. Go for it! Post your broken pistons and rings here. :thumbsup:

Do not, I repeat, do not go lean on the tune re. high RPM WOT MAP settings. Stay at or below 11:1 and you'll be fine during these conditions. It's not worth the extra 20-25 RWHP IMHO. Any other time and you can go up to 12:1 with decent comfort. 11.7 gives even more cushion in case you get a bad batch of gas or some other weird thing.

Heat damage is what you are talking about. Before I run right out and modify my A/F ratio this minute based on your definitive facts, PLEASE tell me where you found this info. Please post the authoritative source and location. I have been running my car with this ratio for two years - HARD. I have made several high RPM WOT runs - and monitored it with a wideband monitor. I monitor my spark advance closely as well. Guess what - NO detonation, NO overheating, and NO damage to my internals. I have a clean leakdown and compression test, and I get great throttle response.

Come on, don't spread misinformation unless you can prove you are a subject matter expert or you are willing to give definative reference material for your claims.

12:1 A/F WILL NOT DESTROY A MOTOR ON A LONG WOT RUN! I have done it - several times - and my engine is fine. I do not need to worry about posting pics of my destroyed pistons :bored:

As I said before, set your own A/F ratio to what you feel comfortable with AFTER you do your research.

Respectfully,
Dan

 

[DD2000GT]

Why not show yourself? Buy a wideband 02 a logger,EGT and monitor your state of tune for yourself. Every car with forced induction should monitor the actual a/f ratio, exhaust gas temperature and fuel pressure if its running boost levels beyond stock. You guys are a little more seat of pants and blindly tuned than what im used to. A hand full of gauges will save your precious boosted motor..

Not intended as a flame.
QUOTE]

None taken, and you make a very good point most neglect. I am not one of them. I do monitor my A/F ratios and spark advance, as well as IAT temps. Believe me, I am not reckless with my investment, I want it to last a while.

Later,
Dan

 

[redfire03 svt]

I have not voided any warranties. I have had my local SVT Ford dealer do all my mods, and have already had $2,000 worth of warranty work. Our SVT club is sponsored by this dealer, and we have been very well taken care of. They said to calibrate and tune my car, it will not void any warranty. I expecially asked. Each dealer is different, and we have a good relationship with our SVT dealer. I am actually just getting my speedo calibrated, but for an extra couple hundred dollars I can get a tune. I don't need to get it tuned, but I do need a speedo calibration for my new gears. How much do you guys think I will pick up if I get tuned with 11.7 across the board, and then at 5,500 rpms drop it to 11.5 Remember I am on a stock pulley.

 

[4WD-Open]

Why not show yourself? Buy a wideband 02 a logger,EGT and monitor your state of tune for yourself. Every car with forced induction should monitor the actual a/f ratio, exhaust gas temperature and fuel pressure if its running boost levels beyond stock. You guys are a little more seat of pants and blindly tuned than what im used to. A hand full of gauges will save your precious boosted motor..

Not intended as a flame.
QUOTE]

None taken, and you make a very good point most neglect. I am not one of them. I do monitor my A/F ratios and spark advance, as well as IAT temps. Believe me, I am not reckless with my investment, I want it to last a while.

Later,
Dan

Nice work, and I agree with you. There is no benchmark a/f ratio that determines what a safe tune is. If you are running 12:1 a/f and the ECU is not pulling timing and you're not detonating then there is no reason to assume your tune is unsafe. I ran 26 pounds of boost in my talon on pump gas in the 12:1 range and trapped 123 MPH at the track on a stock untouched bottom end.

If you're not getting detonation and timing is not being pulled, then there is no reason to assume your tune is unsafe. People also forget that charged air temps affect how lean your tune can be. Lower charged air temps will allow you to safely run a leaner setup without the chance of pre-ignition. If you're sucking hot air you may have to run a fatter mixture to compensate for higher charged air temps.

Bottom line no two setups, cars or tunes will be alike. Posing absolutes in regard to tuning on the Internet is very misleading.

 

[DD2000GT]

It is great that you found a mod friendly dealer that you like - that is key. But, make no mistake, it makes no difference to "Ford" if the dealer makes the mods or you do it yourself. If a SVT rep goes to the dealer to inspect your car prior to a large warranty claim, and finds the stock version has been modified, YOU WILL HAVE YOUR WARRANTY VOIDED BY FORD. Your dealership does not control the warranty issues, Ford does.

Just giving you the facts,
Dan

 

[Emmerson_Biggins]

Safety is relative. There have been quite a few folks on here who've fried pistions during high speed runs. If you're pulling WOT runs for extended periods of time (i.e. > 5000 RPM's for 20-30 seconds or longer), a 12:1 ratio will destroy a motor. Go for it! Post your broken pistons and rings here. :thumbsup:

Do not, I repeat, do not go lean on the tune re. high RPM WOT MAP settings. Stay at or below 11:1 and you'll be fine during these conditions. It's not worth the extra 20-25 RWHP IMHO. Any other time and you can go up to 12:1 with decent comfort. 11.7 gives even more cushion in case you get a bad batch of gas or some other weird thing.

You know, Platinum and I don't agree on much, but he has hit this one on the head. The Eaton is a heat machine, and without the extra fuel to cool things off, disaster looms ahead if sustained RPM and load are to be maintained. Conversely, for just dyno-whoring (i.e. trying to blip "the big number") I have seen guys run nearly 14:1, it puts a huge number on the dyno sheet and the engine does not have enough time to build up a lot of damaging heat. But you damn sure wouldn't want to do this with your street tune for obvious reasons.

 

[05 Roush]

Heat damage is what you are talking about. Before I run right out and modify my A/F ratio this minute based on your definitive facts, PLEASE tell me where you found this info. Please post the authoritative source and location. I have been running my car with this ratio for two years - HARD. I have made several high RPM WOT runs - and monitored it with a wideband monitor. I monitor my spark advance closely as well. Guess what - NO detonation, NO overheating, and NO damage to my internals. I have a clean leakdown and compression test, and I get great throttle response.

Come on, don't spread misinformation unless you can prove you are a subject matter expert or you are willing to give definative reference material for your claims.

12:1 A/F WILL NOT DESTROY A MOTOR ON A LONG WOT RUN! I have done it - several times - and my engine is fine. I do not need to worry about posting pics of my destroyed pistons :bored:

As I said before, set your own A/F ratio to what you feel comfortable with AFTER you do your research.

Respectfully,
Dan

Well say what you want but I've been keeping tabs of the blown motors on here for a long, long time. Let's recap a sampling of some of the fried piston owners with WOT 6K+ A/F ratios, shall we?:

Grey03Cobra: 11.8:1
SaleenGTRoush: 12:1
Zinc03Cobra 12:1+
Racerat 12:1
Dgussin 12:1
Shadowgray03 12:1
Toofast4u 11.8:1
Stangin 12:1
slvrsnake 11.8:1
Coleman 12:1
RedSquad7 12:1
cobra93teal 12:1
capnkirk52 11.8:1
tommygun 12.2:1
Kino 12.1:1

I could keep going, but the bottom line is lean a/f + high boost + long WOT = KABOOM! Most of these motors listed above grenaded from fried pistons. Heat is the only thing that can do that. It's mighty tempting to raise both boost and A/F ratios at the same time.

We have no knock sensors. And many of us in the West have paltry 91 octane gas. DO NOT ASSUME 12:1 IS SAFE!

You cannot go wrong with a richer mix. Don't go running around saying 12:1 is safe if it works for you and not others. One stinky tank of gas. One bad sensor. One leaky vacuum line and it's over.

That's all I'm trying to say. :beer:

 

[05 Roush]

You know, Platinum and I don't agree on much, but he has hit this one on the head. The Eaton is a heat machine, and without the extra fuel to cool things off, disaster looms ahead if sustained RPM and load are to be maintained. Conversely, for just dyno-whoring (i.e. trying to blip "the big number") I have seen guys run nearly 14:1, it puts a huge number on the dyno sheet and the engine does not have enough time to build up a lot of damaging heat. But you damn sure wouldn't want to do this with your street tune for obvious reasons.

I hear you. :beer:

The eaton is garbage above 10 psi. :nonono: Maybe that's why they don't recommend overboosting the thing.

 

[o3SnakeBite]

I running around 11.8-12.0:1 and my car runs great. Its a safe tune

 

[05 Roush]

I running around 11.8-12.0:1 and my car runs great. Its a safe tune

Would you care to test that theory with me in the Silver State Classic this year? oke:

:thumbsup: