well, motor went boom. what are my options

[ClubVenom1]

So what caused the piston lands to let go???? Detonation from what factors???

It seems odd that the car ran good all last year and now it let go with nothing being changed.


I'm interested in what lead up to the damage.
You can build a new solid engine but if you don't learn what caused the carnage,
you could end up in the same boat again.

What boost level, octane, RPM, cylinder # w/bad piston, Engine temps, Air temps, A/F ratio at WOT, timing, etc...

Anyone else have a guess as to why it killed the piston?

 

[Hangman]

picture of said cylinder that let go...once I have the shortblock apart I'll put up more pics

I think i see your problem, lol. when do you plan on getting the motor in, etc?

 

[virginiafiveo]

I'm going to guess either a stuck injector (unlikely) or just bad gas. I had just filled up at a station I normally do (no problems before) but it has that E10 shit in it. I hate that stuff and I think it causes a lot of problems. it ran great at the track not a week prior. boost level was approximately 20 psi. octane was 93 from the shell station. I forget the cylinder number but it is passenger closest to firewall. engine temp was 185-190 (full operating temp) air temps outside was approximately 55-60 degrees, sunny, A/F according to AEM WBO2 was green all the way. I was seeing 11s...couldn't tell you the point factors. timing I believe was either 20 or 21. I'd have to check the tune again. it was done so long ago.

I believe it was bad gas and that cylinder just runs hotter so it was the one that went. I do have a head cooling mod (bigger coolant tubes than most, built by Herman at HP by Herman. he also did the tunes. working with a couple different engine builders to come up with the numbers before I order. gotta do some savings too. I'm hoping I have a motor to put in the car june july time frame. but I'm going to go with a 3.4 whipple and an all new fuel system, so the cost adds up very quickly.

 

[Termilvr]

what fuel were you running?

 

[ugotbit03]

Timing seems agressive for pump gas and that boost IMO.

I would build yourself and with the money saved invest in better parts for the new build.

 

[mach1033]

I havent seen anyone tune with that kind of timing with 17lbs of boost and pump gas let alone 20lbs and pump.

 

[virginiafiveo]

like I said, I could be wrong. Herman would know for sure. tune was totally safe with no pinging for a very long time. gas is 93 octane from shell that is 10% ethanol

 

[virginiafiveo]

built long block from MMR with their 2500hp pistons looks like it will be about 11k. livornois can't touch that even if I supply my heads they are talking over 14k. any idea why they are so much more?

 

[virginiafiveo]

Herman confirmed, street tune timing was 19. when I was race tune for race gas (never ran but the one time on the dyno) was 22.5

 

[hpbyhermann]

After 4 years of fun and hard use seems bad fuel got you

So what caused the piston lands to let go???? Detonation from what factors???
This car was tuned 4 years ago, at that time there wasn't E-10 fuel except in the winter.
It seems odd that the car ran good all last year and now it let go with nothing being changed.
With the E-10 fuel that is everywhere it forced me to switch the Stoich. point in all cars I tune now to 14.20 to compensate for the 10%alcohol. Actual A/F of this car was at 10.95-11.1 as measured with my lab quality AFM-1000 meter. Again, with the car being flawless for 4 YEARS it is quite easy to see the cause of the carnage, poor fuel quality. I STRESS to ALL of my customers and people that just ask me for info to use Torco with every fillup to guard against problems like Phillip is going through now. It is so much cheaper to guard yourself against unknown fuel octane, do you really think in these times with $4.00 plus per gallon fuel some scumbag gas station owner wouldn't fill the 93 octane tank with lower octane to make a few bucks?? I also got some prime swampland i'd sell you for cheap!:rockon:

I'm interested in what lead up to the damage.
You can build a new solid engine but if you don't learn what caused the carnage,
you could end up in the same boat again.
See above.
What boost level, octane, RPM, cylinder # w/bad piston, Engine temps, Air temps, A/F ratio at WOT, timing, etc...
See above, Actual as measured A/F was 10.9 to 11.1, timing was 19 degrees.
Anyone else have a guess as to why it killed the piston?

No guessing required, see above.

I'm going to guess either a stuck injector (unlikely) or just bad gas. I had just filled up at a station I normally do (no problems before) but it has that E10 shit in it. I hate that stuff and I think it causes a lot of problems. it ran great at the track not a week prior. boost level was approximately 20 psi. octane was 93 from the shell station. I forget the cylinder number but it is passenger closest to firewall. engine temp was 185-190 (full operating temp) air temps outside was approximately 55-60 degrees, sunny, A/F according to AEM WBO2 was green all the way. I was seeing 11s...couldn't tell you the point factors. timing I believe was either 20 or 21. I'd have to check the tune again. it was done so long ago.

I believe it was bad gas and that cylinder just runs hotter so it was the one that went. I do have a head cooling mod (bigger coolant tubes than most, built by Herman at HP by Herman. he also did the tunes. working with a couple different engine builders to come up with the numbers before I order. gotta do some savings too. I'm hoping I have a motor to put in the car june july time frame. but I'm going to go with a 3.4 whipple and an all new fuel system, so the cost adds up very quickly.

Phillip, you are right on the money.

Timing seems agressive for pump gas and that boost IMO.
You know what they say about opinions, i've tuned 100's of these cars, the only time this happens is when fuel quality is no up to the task.
I would build yourself and with the money saved invest in better parts for the new build.

Agree 100%

I havent seen anyone tune with that kind of timing with 17lbs of boost and pump gas let alone 20lbs and pump.

You are correct, and I don't either. see above. 19 degrees.

like I said, I could be wrong. Herman would know for sure. tune was totally safe with no pinging for a very long time. gas is 93 octane from shell that is 10% ethanol

See above Phillip, call me if you need info on your new build.:beer:

 

[virginiafiveo]

No guessing required, see above.

Phillip, you are right on the money.

Agree 100%

You are correct, and I don't either. see above. 19 degrees.


See above Phillip, call me if you need info on your new build.:beer:

as always, hermann is the man. I'd go to him if I was still local to maryland. hell, I still might. :rockon:

 

[Quick Strike]

OP: I think it might be a good time to have you injectors cleaned and flow tested/matched if you intend to reuse them in your new build.

Herman: I am still running strong out here on your tunes (car is currently away for the winter). I want to come down for more power, but can't afford any chance of breakage right now. It is light/medium duty for the Cobra until the financial climate is better. Rest assured, I will be back to watch it punish your rollers and tires as soon as I can. I hope all is well for you and your crew!

 

[bambinov8]

OP how much power are you looking to put down on a regular basis / race track days ?? If you looking to make 700whp -750whp safely and not break your bank account , do the tousley ford long block for 4k and revised heads as it was mentioned earlier and get some CP pistons or diamond pistons and you have a motor that can handle 850whp all day long safe ..fuel supply is very important in this build as you planning to make high HP ..I would look at the magnafuel kits or lethal kits ...why you want a 3.4 over a 2.9 ?? Has been proven that by lethal and other members here that it can be as efficient as the 3.4 so need to lower motor etc ...and most important once you done get that car perfectly tuned ..sorry to hear abt this man ..I went thru the same it is sad ..thankfully I had a friend that help out on the labor ..that's also why I don't trust 93 octane on HP cars ..a bit of low octane and theres goes your 10k motor again ..be careful with mickey mouse stations ..stick with BP , chevron , Mobil .. I'm on E85 daily with a tester on hands all the time filling up... GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BUILD AND I WISH YOU ENJOY YOUR BABY AGAIN ONCE YOU GET IT BACK !

 

[virginiafiveo]

I'm looking to make 600+ on street tune. 750-800ish on high boost race tune (race fuel) and hoping to be able to scratch 1000 with nitrous. looking to go to texas mile and maybe break into the 200 mph club.

 

[ClubVenom1]

Sick Herman!!!! I just gained new knowledge on these motors.
Didn't know you could run 20psi at 19deg. on 93 oct. with 2.3 whipples with OP's mods.

So if your running on the edge of your tune for octane....
run torco for insurance. Lesson learned!

OP, hope your new build goes as planned and you come out with a killer combo. GL
And by the way was the 20psi acheived on the 3.0 pulley or the 2.75 pulley? just wondering for my own info.

 

[bambinov8]

Sick Herman!!!! I just gained new knowledge on these motors.
Didn't know you could run 20psi at 19deg. on 93 oct. with 2.3 whipples with OP's mods.

So if your running on the edge of your tune for octane....
run torco for insurance. Lesson learned!

OP, hope your new build goes as planned and you come out with a killer combo. GL
And by the way was the 20psi acheived on the 3.0 pulley or the 2.75 pulley? just wondering for my own info.

2.75 pulley SIR ...:beer:

 

[virginiafiveo]

2.75 pulley SIR ...:beer:

negative. running my 3.0 pulley I made 668 and saw 19-20 psi. stock lower. gen 2 2.3. the 2.75 if I recall correctly made 684 and had I want to say 22 knocking on the door of 23 psi.

 

[ClubVenom1]

That's awesome! Thanks for the info.

 

[virginiafiveo]

5 of the dyno info pages. there will be another here in a second.

 

[virginiafiveo]

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