upgrading from 2.93

[ViciousJay]

Yeah.... You're in Chicago. You are in a place where people DIE (literally) when it gets over 90*:rollseyes
Hot to you & hot to the rest of us maybe isn't the same thing.

And wtf does winter have to do with anything?? Not too hard to keep temps down when it's 12* outside.


I don't know where you get the idea that we are talking about 'gains' from these mods. They are not hp adding mods; they are mods to prolong the life of an engine. Adding capacity to the volume of the cooling system allows more coolant to be out of the motor and/or sc at any given point, ergo said coolant's temperatures are allowed to dissipate more given the additional time out of the engine. Adding a larger reservoir increases capacity; adding a more efficient h/e dissipates heat more effectively than the stock one; adding the head cooling mod provides an exit route for the pooled coolant in the back of the left head & allows it to circulate back into the system as opposed to sitting there getting hotter & hotter & hotter. And that WILL fck up the engine.

Can you 'get away with' running the stock stuff & no cooling mods? Probably. Is a $6K rebuild worth it because you were to stingy/stupid to add a few hundred bucks worth of cooling mods? IMO, no.

If you truly think that reducing temps is not a vital & intelligent part of engine management, then I am done talking with you because you are a moron.:bored:

right there is where you said it

 

[unit213]

trust you, eh? You plan to pay for his engine if he overheats & ruins it after taking your advice? Didn't think so. Quit giving stupid adviceoke:

I ran my KB @ 17psi with the stock heat exchanger forever. It was
making about 575rwhp and I had absolutely no problems what-so-ever.
A H/E is not a cooling mod. It's only going to help IAT's. I highly doubt
any terminator has overheated due to the H/E. Now, with that said, it's
not a good move to run the stock H/E...but I think you're comments
are a little out of line.

 

[TrueBlueGT]

right there is where you said it

You keep talking RATE OF FLOW. I'm talking about the VOLUME OF AVAILABLE COOLANT. THEY ARE DIFFERENT. If I hook up a 3" hose to our tanker truck (fire dept.) but only open the valve 1/4 of the way, the RATE OF FLOW will be less than if the valve were open completely. It doesn't matter if the tanker is completely full or only 1/3 full because that is the VOLUME OF AVAILABLE FLUID!!! Given that by increasing the amount of available coolant but maintaining the same flow characteristics through the system, MORE COOLANT WILL BE OUT OF THE SC AT ANY GIVEN POINT IN TIME. It has nothing to do with rate of flow because the capacity is the only thing changing.

Unit213, I'm not quite sure just what you're trying to say. First you insinuate that it's ok to run the stock setup because you did & got away with it. Then you immediately flipflop and say that running the stock setup is a bad idea:shrug: I don't need to argue with you; you do a damn fine job of countering yourself.
Only on SVTP could someone give stupid advice, then get backed up by other stupid advice. I'm telling the guy to play it safe and upgrade his cooling system and you jackasses are arguing against it?! Why the fck would you say it's not a good idea to keep your motor as cool as possible? Especially on high-hp applications such as these? Because you did and got away with it for a while? That's a wonderful basis for your argument.:rollseyes

Ultimately, I don't care what you do to your car(s). You can go set the damn thing on fire for all I care. I'm going to upgrade my cooling system as much as possible because it's cheap insurance against heat-related issues. As I said before, we'll have to agree to disagree because I'm done arguing with morons who think reducing engine temps doesn't matter:bored:

 

[repsol]

How many pounds will I be running with the 2.76

 

[unit213]

Unit213, I'm not quite sure just what you're trying to say. First you insinuate that it's ok to run the stock setup because you did & got away with it. Then you immediately flipflop and say that running the stock setup is a bad idea:shrug: I don't need to argue with you; you do a damn fine job of countering yourself.

Too hard to comprehend huh? :read:

The only problem the stock heat exchanger will create is heat soak.
It's not going to cause the motor to overheat. It's a good idea
to replace it with an aftermarket H/E so heat soak isn't as much
of a problem...and timing doesn't get pulled, etc. BUT...it will not
hurt anything to run the stock H/E.

Make sense? Still too difficult to figure out?

 

[JB]

I agree with unit...upgrading heat exchanger is not going to lower engine operating temps and in fact, can actually raise them

if less timing is pulled because of lowered post-intercooler charge temps the engine will produce more power, thus producing more heat for engine coolant to absorb

 

[unit213]

I agree with unit...upgrading heat exchanger is not going to lower engine operating temps and in fact, can actually raise them

if less timing is pulled because of lowered post-intercooler charge temps the engine will produce more power, thus producing more heat for engine coolant to absorb

Indeed sir. :rockon:

 

[TrueBlueGT]

I agree with unit...upgrading heat exchanger is not going to lower engine operating temps and in fact, can actually raise them

if less timing is pulled because of lowered post-intercooler charge temps the engine will produce more power, thus producing more heat for engine coolant to absorb

I'm sorry but I'm not agreeing with this. If the cpu pulls timing at a certain temperature, then it will pull timing at the same temperature regardless of cooling system efficiency or capacity. Yes, no? If yes, then the only difference is that the larger volume of coolant will take longer to heat up to that temperature thereby allowing the car to maintain power for a longer period of time by more effectively extracting heat from the system. And I'm not meaning just a h/e upgrade. I'm talking in terms of having upgraded the entire cooling system to work together. Obviously bolting on one piece at a time is the affordable & generally accepted way to do this but it then negatively affects the remaining stock pieces. We got off on the tangent about h/e's solely, and that was not the context of my thoughts.

 

[unit213]

I'm sorry but I'm not agreeing with this. If the cpu pulls timing at a certain temperature, then it will pull timing at the same temperature regardless of cooling system efficiency or capacity.

Now how about if a specific IAT2 is reached with the stock H/E and
then that IAT2 is never reached again with an aftermarket H/E.
Timing doesn't get pulled and the air charge is cooler. The point of
upgrading the H/E is to reduce IAT2's and to prevent the PCM from
pulling timing (basically).

To the original poster, the answer is that it would be wise to upgrade
the stock H/E. Yes, LFP provides a nice product. I run one myself.
However, it's not mandatory to make good power.

 

[TrueBlueGT]

Now how about if a specific IAT2 is reached with the stock H/E and
then that IAT2 is never reached again with an aftermarket H/E.
Timing doesn't get pulled and the air charge is cooler. The point of
upgrading the H/E is to reduce IAT2's and to prevent the PCM from
pulling timing (basically).

To the original poster, the answer is that it would be wise to upgrade
the stock H/E. Yes, LFP provides a nice product. I run one myself.
However, it's not mandatory to make good power.

I agree with you on this. This also is why I mentioned that I was looking at from the standpoint of upgrading the entire system, not just the h/e. As I said, the topic was pigeon-holed down to just the h/e.

 

[JB]

I'm sorry but I'm not agreeing with this. If the cpu pulls timing at a certain temperature, then it will pull timing at the same temperature regardless of cooling system efficiency or capacity. Yes, no? ...

the PCM doesn't pull timing because of coolant temps until you reach the point of it going into 'limp mode', which is a severe cut and not germane to this discussion

the timing decrease/power increase scenario that I am talking about is the everyday one that uses IAT2 temps and that is measuring the temp of the aircharge

 

[TrueBlueGT]

I'm sorry...I thought you were speaking of the car actually going into limp mode.

 

[JB]

no problem....it's a good discussion :beer:

I agree that cooling mods are great but because of the inherent flaws in the stock system, it's an expensive thing to do correctly (Evans stuff)

 

[TrueBlueGT]

Then while we have the topic at hand, what would you say is the proper way to go about this task?

Apparently I've been wrong here; I'm not hung on an ego that won't let me admit it & apologize although I do want to know what is right so I can do it.

 

[unit213]

Then while we have the topic at hand, what would you say is the proper way to go about this task?

Apparently I've been wrong here; I'm not hung on an ego that won't let me admit it & apologize although I do want to know what is right so I can do it.

Same here. In the grand scheme of life, I don't know shit. True
knowledge lies in the fact that we all know nothing. :??: Ok...that's
a stretch and I've gone off on a tangent.

I've yet to do the cooling mods. I'll do them all he next time I need a new
clutch. So far so good...

 

[snake134]

How many pounds will I be running with the 2.76

I think its 15.2 psi but check again to make sure......Billet flow is the only way to go for pulleys.....make sure to get ATLEAST the 1 piece idler set from billet flow and a good belt(gatorback/gates).

 

[unit213]

I think its 15.2 psi but check again to make sure......Billet flow is the only way to go for pulleys.....make sure to get ATLEAST the 1 piece idler set from billet flow and a good belt(gatorback/gates).

I seem to recall making just shy of 14psi with a 2.76.

 

[ViciousJay]

I seem to recall making just shy of 14psi with a 2.76.

x2, thats where im at... my port will be done in teh next 3 weeks... just looking for another stocker that i can port myself