I change my oil a lot so I'm a bad person to ask.
I run FTW Clear on race day. Very confident that if my engine let's go, it's not due to bad fuel. Making 1000 crank horsepower is very impressive either way.
TVS, E85, bolt ons (100% stock longblock) - 875rwhp
- Thread starter Turbo98GT
- Start date
I change my oil a lot so I'm a bad person to ask.
I run FTW Clear on race day. Very confident that if my engine let's go, it's not due to bad fuel. Making 1000 crank horsepower is very impressive either way.
Good to know you and me think a lot alike :beer:
Not assumptions. All you have to do is use the search option. Posts for days.
But, your right. I'm wrong. Engines pushing 1000hp on stock internals aren't an issue. I'm sure it will last 100k miles. Good luck.
On the E85 in the oil note: there are pictures somewhere on the site of someone who blew a 5.8 and once torn apart had corrosion on the internals. Believe Kurt had a solid right up on it? Maybe it was someone else. There is a company that came out with a switching tune for our cars that switches once picking up E85, then switches back like the Flex Fuel vehicles when you feel the need to run some gas through it to purge it out a bit.
No assumptions? So you think I will make this power for the next 5-7 years with no issues? Sounds like an assumption to me. Please sit out giving advice to probably knows more about these cars than you. Cheers .
Justin
I'm not going to give you advise on the structural strength/integrity of the stock 5.8L rods at this power level.
I know you have John's cell number in CA. I know you will consider his opinion with the highest regard on this topic. Call or text him with the power level you're producing, but also explain exactly how often you want to do a 1/2 mile or mile event each year. What RPM levels you're turning at the shift while racing or playing on the street, but also what the RPM flares you see during those shifts by data logging this info. I'd bet you a steak dinner at Ruth Chris's at Fairfax Town Center what his comments will be.
Now I wasn't the one who wrote up the issues with E85 and short around town jaunts. Without proper heat in the oil to evaporate both the contamination of fuel and water condensation in the oil. The oil will need to be changed at very high intervals. Also take into consideration that one of the major mods is to go with a 170*F thermostat in these engines while lowering the fan turn on temperature in the PCM. This further reduces oil temperatures, which again doesn't raise the level of contaminate evaporation from the oil with short drives around town. The oil needs to be changed rigorously and at very short intervals with E85.
1320junkie was the person that had a rod bearing failure due to oil contamination from the factors listed above.
I'm not going to give you advise on the structural strength/integrity of the stock 5.8L rods at this power level.
I know you have John's cell number in CA. I know you will consider his opinion with the highest regard on this topic. Call or text him with the power level you're producing, but also explain exactly how often you want to do a 1/2 mile or mile event each year. What RPM levels you're turning at the shift while racing or playing on the street, but also what the RPM flares you see during those shifts by data logging this info. I'd bet you a steak dinner at Ruth Chris's at Fairfax Town Center what his comments will be.
Now I wasn't the one who wrote up the issues with E85 and short around town jaunts. Without proper heat in the oil to evaporate both the contamination of fuel and water condensation in the oil. The oil will need to be changed at very high intervals. Also take into consideration that one of the major mods is to go with a 170*F thermostat in these engines while lowering the fan turn on temperature in the PCM. This further reduces oil temperatures, which again doesn't raise the level of contaminate evaporation from the oil with short drives around town. The oil needs to be changed rigorously and at very short intervals with E85.
1320junkie was the person that had a rod bearing failure due to oil contamination from the factors listed above.
My good friend destroyed his LS7 running E85 at a half mile event, E85 is awesome race fuel and you can't beat the cost, but yes it gets in your oil very fast. Either way I'm going to keep running it and changing my oil very frequently. I take very good care of my car and im not that hard on it so I feel safe at my power level.
I've talked to John about this. I just have a very efficient engine setup and Per his words, it's no more likely to blow up now than it would at 750rwhp on pump E85. Everything I've done is very calculated. Some ive posted, others I'm keeping to myself. No nitrous and still on stock fuel system through.
Why dont you like the kb anymore? I feel like switching to tvs after these number op put down lol
The stock 5.4 and 5.8s can't spin the big KBs (3.6 4.2 4.7) fast enough safely, not to mention the KBs are harder to spin than the 2.3 TVS.
Yes I understand efficiency and how that is done. The advantage of spinning the smaller TVS versus a 3.6L KB probably netted you 35 hp at the tires. But Hp is also a direct result of cylinder pressures. You can change cams to lower boost by increasing the volumetric efficiency of filling the cylinder. You can install headers to increase the volumetric efficiency. But it is also means you increased the CFM airflow into the cylinder with the lower boost. You can reduce inlet air restrictions into the SC to net more CFM of output with the same SC RPM for a gain. You can install a different intercooler to reduce restrictions that lower IAT. Yet with the extra oxygen you gained by increasing efficiency of the air in and the exhaust out of the engine, you also increased fuel delivery to keep the A/F Ratio correct to keep the engine from melting a hole in a piston. More air and fuel combined increased cylinder pressures. This equates to more work load for the rods on each full load power stroke. One of the thing I'll say is I never watched the video until now. I can't see the dyno graph clearly enough to be certain, but it looks as if you spun this engine to 6400 RPM. This equates to high piston speeds in the middle of the stroke with these engines, which is trying to stretch the rod to the point of failure at the top of each stroke and compress it at the bottom of each stroke. As you gain Hp the engine's ability to acceleration through the RPM range, the rate of acceleration per second increases significantly also. Which in itself is another load factor to consider with rod strength.
Making an engine more efficient and netting Hp gains is good. But you also added fuel and air for more gains than the efficiency changes gave you. My engine built 1002 Hp on 16.6 psi max boost with an average boost from 2500-6400 RPM of only 15.4 psi. I know how to make things more efficient to gain power. But at the same time I moved a lot more air and fuel into the cylinder to gain that power. I netted 127 more Hp with a max boost that was 1.4 psi less than yours for what I believe is the same engine RPM you spun this engine to net 875 Hp. In the long run doing anything to increase efficiency and reducing IAT temperatures is truly the best way to modify these engine for longevity, with the benefit of gaining Hp at the same time.
The net Hp an engine produces has to do with the amount of fuel and air in the cylinder you're burning. Volumetric Efficiency can help reduce the workload of the SC moving that air into the engine for gains, but the real factor is cylinder pressures created by burning that extra fuel and air combination in the cylinder. And how they work the engine structure as a whole some of its total parts.
A 1/2 mile event will work those some of engine parts for significantly longer periods of time at full load than 1/4 mile racing ever does.
I'm not questioning anybody's judgement or opinion with this post. I'm trying to explain my logic as to what type of workload I believe you're subjecting this engine.
You may have an idea of some of my mods I'm making this time to increase my engine efficiency, if you've talked to John about my situation. I'd rather build 1100 Hp with 15 psi of boost versus building 1200 Hp with 21 psi of boost. That is how much I believe it is easier on the engine in the long haul
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I may be missing the fact that you are not an aggressive driver on the street, so you'll only be working this engine at a track. But you will be working it hard when you're at the track, especially if you decide a mile event is something you will want to do in the future
Is the moral of all these warnings that race cars can break, lol?
It isn't usual a question of a possibility that it will break. It is more of a question of when will it break.
Look at the NHRA Top Fuel classes at the National Events. Those guys are pushing the limits of the engine with each run that I'd estimate that in 35% of those races the competitors hurt the engine during the run. The other 65% of the competitors that finished the one run pushed the parts reliability to the point of not being able to reuse a lot of those parts for the next round. So they rebuild the engine between rounds to increase the reliability for the next round. To them it isn't a matter of if it will break, but when will it break.
Wow, so this engine is immune to the laws of physics apparently. Don't even bother posting if you have an oil pump failure or over-stressed rod let go. With an attitude like that you'll be laughed off of the forum.
Justin one thing I didn't mention and need to is what is know as Engine RPM Flares. It was something I never took into consideration until I was at a track where a car was being data logged for a number of runs.
Your peak power was at 5910 RPM. What this means is that you should shift close to that RPM. Your peak torque was also at an average of 4060 RPM. Fortunately for you, you have a very flat torque curve below the peak. So you'll want to shift at the 5900 RPM mark on your tachometer, because your flat torque will allow you to drop below its peak without hurting the run. If you Data Log yourself at the track. You will see at your 5900 shift point a higher recorded RPM when you look at the Data Logs after the run. The engine could have flared to as high as 6700 RPM during the shift. Why? Remember what I posted earlier about the rate of acceleration of the engine per second being faster as Hp increases. When you shift that rotating mass becomes stored kinetic energy in the rotating mass of the engine that continues to increase engine RPM until you can finally engage the next gear. The difference can be large depending on the driver and how fast he is in moving the stick. A very experienced driver may only see flares of 400 RPM above his shift point. Someone else may see flares as high as 1100 RPM above the shift point.
These RPM flares during the shift are working the sum of the total of the parts of the engine. This is another factor you must take into consideration for longevity of those parts
You may have played with a few of the friction reduction processes in the driveline to net some more power without working the engine any harder. Those gains will be good towards helping increase engine longevity as it is free Hp at the tires. The things I've mentioned in my earlier posts are shortening the longevity of the parts combo also.
Your peak power was at 5910 RPM. What this means is that you should shift close to that RPM. Your peak torque was also at an average of 4060 RPM. Fortunately for you, you have a very flat torque curve below the peak. So you'll want to shift at the 5900 RPM mark on your tachometer, because your flat torque will allow you to drop below its peak without hurting the run. If you Data Log yourself at the track. You will see at your 5900 shift point a higher recorded RPM when you look at the Data Logs after the run. The engine could have flared to as high as 6700 RPM during the shift. Why? Remember what I posted earlier about the rate of acceleration of the engine per second being faster as Hp increases. When you shift that rotating mass becomes stored kinetic energy in the rotating mass of the engine that continues to increase engine RPM until you can finally engage the next gear. The difference can be large depending on the driver and how fast he is in moving the stick. A very experienced driver may only see flares of 400 RPM above his shift point. Someone else may see flares as high as 1100 RPM above the shift point.
These RPM flares during the shift are working the sum of the total of the parts of the engine. This is another factor you must take into consideration for longevity of those parts
You may have played with a few of the friction reduction processes in the driveline to net some more power without working the engine any harder. Those gains will be good towards helping increase engine longevity as it is free Hp at the tires. The things I've mentioned in my earlier posts are shortening the longevity of the parts combo also.
On the topic of rpm flares, how does the no lift shit feature of the n2mb work? I know not to use the launch feature because it will break the crank snout given enough time (probably spin the tires also because of full boost). But does it still cut only one spark plug or does it cut all ignition for a short time? Lund mentioned during (interstate driving) tuning I might look into one of these as I flared from 6500 to about 7100 rpm.
I'm trying to explain it in a non-hostile eloquent manner. I don't know Justin or have I ever met him, even though he lives less that 65 miles from me according to where he claims his location is. His car did have Georgia tags on it, but I can understand that one too with his stated location also. LOL
Hostility only begets more hostility. He believes he is defending a good combination he has spent a lot of money on. He has talked to someone that is a premier Mod Motor engine builder in this country. what we both don't know is how this engine is going to be used. Locally to me is a gentleman with a Super Snake, I doubt this car has ever seen the max Hp but a few times in since this gentleman bought the car. Justin may only use this Hp a few times a year himself in this build, which will increase the engine longevity also. This is something him and the engine builder may have discussed at length about and decided the risk is worth the reward. This is something you or I have no knowledge of
My posts are only meant as a warning for him to consider the possibilities of and I hope he doesn't think I'm being combative with them. Unfortunately I can't say the same for yours.
These sites are designed as a method to entertain ourselves with, while also learning from each other. Combative comments aren't enjoyable or in my opinion entertainment. Even though I've been on a number of sites where people think it is the best form of entertainment in the world. These were truckers that are subjected to long periods of no real human contact on a daily basis and used the Internet strictly to entertain themselves whether it was fighting with others or trading info to learn. Most of the time it was fighting, I've come to hate those types of posts no matter what topic is being discussed, because nobody learns anything from it.
See Ya Justin, Good Luck with the car. John can bang my phone and chew my ass if he so decides. I could use his blunt humor as I haven't talked with him in a while
I have no idea how they work. I would hope it kills fuel to all the cylinders at once. Doing it in this manner will not create serve engine harmonics that will destroy other parts. Killing fuel is easier on the engine then turning off spark. Otherwise you'll have a bunch of raw fuel in the exhaust if it kills the plugs, which will ignite with a big bang once the box turns the plugs back on.
...but then you'll run into very lean conditions, I don't think the exhaust stroke completely empties the cylinder does it? I just need to drop the shift point lower.
N2MB cuts ignition briefly for a predetermined length of time (ms) upon clutch activation. It's fully customizable via laptop. Makes the shifts much smoother as well. No flare.
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