timing on pump e85

iceman22

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Recently i have been researching and studying a lot about the benefits of running e85 in any boosted vehicle and the best way to approach the setup to get the most reliable power . I am currently running 2.9 whipple ,with all supporting mods on my 2011 Shelby and was getting knock activity out of the ks at 16-17 degrees advanced ,which leaves a lot of power on the table . For about a year now I have been running pump e85 ,which in my region or climate is about 78 % ethanol and who knows what the other 32 % is . I kept reading that for pump e85 you should run pump gas timing advance , but I have found this information to be far from accurate , I have ran my car on pump e85 and mbt timing everywhere except the max rpm and load column with much success and no ks activity other than it still trying to add a lil timing ,as for total max load and rpm im running a conservative 24 degrees advanced with no sign of knock . I have also noticed anything over 60 % ethanol seems to be good enough for this timing increase . I usually never post to the forums but I had to share my results because of all of the misinformation out there . I know switching from 93 octane to pump e85 was by far the best mod I have seen or done to the boosted pump gas setups , so don't be afraid to turn it up , especially if your car is equipped with knock sensors , tell your tuner to allow the ks to pull more timing if needed and run your knock tables up close to mbt timing . The only reason I haven't tried mbt on the max load and rpm is because the cars traction is very limited at 24 degrees so ive decided to stay there and she still blows the tires off at 40-60 rolls . I tune with sct pro racer and anyone who would like to see my knock tables you can pm me and I will gladly share my info as well as any other knowledge I have acquired in tuning these powerplants . I have tested all this info with great results on the street and track , don't have dyno numbers because they are numbers and mean nothing to me . Bottom line is that ethanol is the king of race gas for many reasons so don't be afraid to turn it up once you have your setup working correctly with right amount of fuel , and also your maintenance intervals will be shortened running e85 all the time , change your oil about 2500 miles and plugs at least every other oil change is good idea , and if you run stock fuel filter change it every 5-7500 miles or buy a stainless filter , and always test the pump e85 because it varies a lot season to season and station to station.
 

Willie

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I read in disbelief. THE ENGINE WILL NOT KNOCK ON E85 NO MATTER HOW LEAN IT RUNS. You'll melt a piston (literally) before she knocks, so a lean condition on e85 is tough to diagnose. Just one reason why I'll never run this junk.... There's nothing cheap about cheap octane...
 

gt347mustang

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I read in disbelief. THE ENGINE WILL NOT KNOCK ON E85 NO MATTER HOW LEAN IT RUNS. You'll melt a piston (literally) before she knocks, so a lean condition on e85 is tough to diagnose. Just one reason why I'll never run this junk.... There's nothing cheap about cheap octane...

Are you saying e85 and ethanol in general is junk? If so, that's the dumbest thing I've read all week.
 

merkyworks

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I would take a guess that Willie is saying local gas station pump E85 is junk. It's not regulated very tightly so unless you test it every time you don't know if you filling up with E60, E70, E80, E85 or even E90. Versus you don't mess with E85 and just run race gas.
 

HISSMAN

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If you are filling up with E85, then you should be getting E85, by law. If you are filling at a flex fuel pump, then it is anything from E51-E85 by law.
 

Weather Man

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Pump E85 starts out around E60ish (MN) and rising until you hit E80ish mid summer. Lots of guys run 2 tunes to reflect the change. DB Performance actually reminds their customers who are set up that way to change over.
 

GNBRETT

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E85 is great stuff. Have u used it before? It will make more HP then C16 and cost 1/4 the price! And can be found at many gas pumps so why is it junk in ur opinion? I always like to hear what others have to say about E85 as I have limited experience with it.



I read in disbelief. THE ENGINE WILL NOT KNOCK ON E85 NO MATTER HOW LEAN IT RUNS. You'll melt a piston (literally) before she knocks, so a lean condition on e85 is tough to diagnose. Just one reason why I'll never run this junk.... There's nothing cheap about cheap octane...
 

genesmob

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Recently i have been researching and studying a lot about the benefits of running e85 in any boosted vehicle and the best way to approach the setup to get the most reliable power . I am currently running 2.9 whipple ,with all supporting mods on my 2011 Shelby and was getting knock activity out of the ks at 16-17 degrees advanced ,which leaves a lot of power on the table . For about a year now I have been running pump e85 ,which in my region or climate is about 78 % ethanol and who knows what the other 32 % is . I kept reading that for pump e85 you should run pump gas timing advance , but I have found this information to be far from accurate , I have ran my car on pump e85 and mbt timing everywhere except the max rpm and load column with much success and no ks activity other than it still trying to add a lil timing ,as for total max load and rpm im running a conservative 24 degrees advanced with no sign of knock . I have also noticed anything over 60 % ethanol seems to be good enough for this timing increase . I usually never post to the forums but I had to share my results because of all of the misinformation out there . I know switching from 93 octane to pump e85 was by far the best mod I have seen or done to the boosted pump gas setups , so don't be afraid to turn it up , especially if your car is equipped with knock sensors , tell your tuner to allow the ks to pull more timing if needed and run your knock tables up close to mbt timing . The only reason I haven't tried mbt on the max load and rpm is because the cars traction is very limited at 24 degrees so ive decided to stay there and she still blows the tires off at 40-60 rolls . I tune with sct pro racer and anyone who would like to see my knock tables you can pm me and I will gladly share my info as well as any other knowledge I have acquired in tuning these powerplants . I have tested all this info with great results on the street and track , don't have dyno numbers because they are numbers and mean nothing to me . Bottom line is that ethanol is the king of race gas for many reasons so don't be afraid to turn it up once you have your setup working correctly with right amount of fuel , and also your maintenance intervals will be shortened running e85 all the time , change your oil about 2500 miles and plugs at least every other oil change is good idea , and if you run stock fuel filter change it every 5-7500 miles or buy a stainless filter , and always test the pump e85 because it varies a lot season to season and station to station.

How much boost?
 

biminiLX

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OP I have found the same experience, on our quality pump E87-89 (we tested one at 92 last week on the change over) and my GT500 rips HARD on 23 degrees. Car will actually add 1-2 degrees if you let it.
I've heard Arizona has shit pump E, but not sure who wouldn't run it if available and of decent quality.
As referenced above, detonation resistance doesn't change much between E50-85. Octane and your lambda number for tuning might, but it remains the best boosted fuel.
If you're paranoid about the E %, several gauges and flex fuel sensors exist.
We've ran higher compression boosted E85 combos for a while successfully.
-J
 

iceman22

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I read in disbelief. THE ENGINE WILL NOT KNOCK ON E85 NO MATTER HOW LEAN IT RUNS. You'll melt a piston (literally) before she knocks, so a lean condition on e85 is tough to diagnose. Just one reason why I'll never run this junk.... There's nothing cheap about cheap octane...
I would hope most people have a wideband and monitor the a/f religiously , so lean condition should be noticed pretty easy .
 

biminiLX

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In addition to datalogging and checking plugs.
E85 seems to like one heat range hotter plugs for a given power level in comparison to gas
-J
 

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