I went to various Ferrari outlets first and they were all over the map. I then looked at the Wiki and felt it provided a much better perspective across a far wider range.
Thoughts on DCT
- Thread starter PowerWheels
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I went to various Ferrari outlets first and they were all over the map. I then looked at the Wiki and felt it provided a much better perspective across a far wider range.
If that transmission is only $20k, I would be shocked. That is probably closer to what the repair bill will be. My little Evo X DCT was a 6-speed transmission that cost $12k, and only had a 347 lb/ft max torque rating.
One of the first things I mentioned to Nick was that I was considering the extended Ford warranty mainly due to the engine and DCT. There's 40K+ (retail) in those two items alone.
Shocked it is then as that's what it costs, trans alone. And I can see units getting shipped back to Tremec in Wixom as opposed to Wilbur taking a crack at it at your local dealer. If units fail, at least early on, I'd imagine all new ones will be installed for quite some time.
I just had a conversation regarding Ford's actual costs with respect to Tier suppliers with an engineer that worked on this car among other jobs with various other manufacturers. He said the rough, general fraction that is used is 1/6th the retail price and then suggested for sake of argument to consider 1/5th. This is sans certain ancillaries but it shows how much markup or margin there may be.
There's the cost of the dct...
Then there's the fully burdened cost of the dct which includes software design and engineering. Hundreds or more likely thousands of man hrs.
Not to mention the acquisitions (businesses and honing machines) that were made in order for tremec to be able to mftr this trans in the first place.
Car has a warranty.. Will look into extension later before mine expires if there are concerns assuming that's not an issue.
Then again by yr 2 or 3 I expect ppl may get there hands in these too and figure out how to fix any weak points
Then there's the fully burdened cost of the dct which includes software design and engineering. Hundreds or more likely thousands of man hrs.
Not to mention the acquisitions (businesses and honing machines) that were made in order for tremec to be able to mftr this trans in the first place.
Car has a warranty.. Will look into extension later before mine expires if there are concerns assuming that's not an issue.
Then again by yr 2 or 3 I expect ppl may get there hands in these too and figure out how to fix any weak points
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Tony, I see times all over the map and many of Ferrari's cars are slower than 100ms. I saw a list showing a spectrum of fast shift times this morning...
- Lamborghini Aventador LP 700-4 [Single clutch ISR gearbox]: 50ms[3]
- Ferrari 430 Scuderia: 60 ms[4]
- Maserati GranTurismo MC Stradale 2016: 60ms[5]
- BMW M5 E60 with SMG III: 65-250 ms[6]
- BMW M3 E46 with SMG II: 80 ms[7]
- BMW M3 E92 with M-DCT: 80 ms
- Bugatti Veyron (DSG): 100 ms[8]
- Ferrari FXX: 100 ms[9]
- Drag car: 100 ms[circular reference]
- Maserati GranTurismo S Cambiocorsa: 100 ms
- Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG: 100 ms[7]
- Fastest Automatic/semi-automatic transmission: 100 ms
- Lexus LC500: 120ms[10]
- Chevrolet Camaro ZL1: ~150 ms (36% faster than PDK[11])
- Clio RS EDC 200: 150 ms (race mode)[12]
- Enzo Ferrari: 150 ms[7]
- Nissan GT-R: 150 ms (R Mode)
- FXX Evoluzione: 160 ms
- Lexus LFA: 200 ms
- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale & Ferrari F430: 250 ms[7]
- BMW M3 E36 with SMG I: 250 ms[7]
Other Mentions:
- Aston Martin Vanquish: 250 ms[7]
- The fastest (Race gearbox) manual: 250 ms[citation needed]
- Ferrari 575M: 280 ms
- Lamborghini Performante DCT LDF: 290 ms
*This is an impossibly fast claim which is widely seen on the internet. This could refer to the gear engagement time of the DCT transmission, which would be the time it takes for the shift fork to select the next requested gear. Actual Up-shift time for the VW DSG and PDK may be closer to 200ms.
- AUDI (DSG)(Also S tronic): 8 ms*[circular reference]
- Volkswagen (DSG)(Also S tronic): 8 ms*[circular reference]
- Alfa Romeo Mito & Alfa Romeo Giulietta (2010)Dual Dry Clutch Transmission TCT: 8 ms*[13]
I'd say the GT500's Tremec DCT is pretty ****ing fast considering the above.
I think many of those times are way wrong . Like the ZL1 150ms - that doesn't include converter slip .
No way 50ms for the single disc in Avendators .
here are 2 videos showing a difference between single disc ISR and DCT
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The other beautiful thing about DCT transmissions is a response to paddle shifters . Response to paddles shifters in my R8 is crazy fast . My last 2 cars had DCT transmissions , they are fun to drive with crazy fast upshifts and downshifts. GTR DCT trans was great but little clunky and the logic in auto mode was stupid, shifting into 6th gear at like 30mph . Audi S-tronic DCT in awesome, super smooth in auto / comfort mode but very aggressive in Performance mode
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From C&D just prior to the Aventador coming out...
"It’s a seven-speed single-clutch automated manual gearbox called ISR (for independent shifting rods). Lambo claims it is 40 percent faster than the Gallardo’s sometimes-clunky single-clutch e-gear transmission, and 50 percent faster than a dual-clutch transmission, with shifts taking just 50 milliseconds."
New Lamborghini V12 Details: Murciélago Replacement News – Car and Driver
I think DBK said better than bmw dct and not as good as pdk which I believe he thinks is the best in the world.
Who makes the DTC in the Ford GT?
I wonder how long it will take for someone to transplant a Mustang GT auto shifter into a 2020 GT500? With all the people that dislike the "KNOB" there may be a market for a stick.
I am waiting to see what George at MGW comes up with, if anyone can come up with a manly "KNOB", it's George.
I am waiting to see what George at MGW comes up with, if anyone can come up with a manly "KNOB", it's George.
I see .25 to .3 seconds here
The 1-2 and 2-3 are horrible like .35 but the 3-4 and 4-5 are better like .225
He runs a [email protected] it seems on the fast side of demonville. 45° day at 450altitude. 0-60 2.6 seconds.
The 2 gearshifts to 60 thing is probably hurting 0-60 by half a second imo.
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Here is how Audi S-tronic DCT shifts in my car . If the GT500 shits and has the same response to shift pedals , you guys will be happy . I'll compare them when my GT500 shows up , it's from a small Ford dealer so it will probably be in the later run , I'm thinking around Feb-March
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