This is EXACTLY why we have an illegal problem

[WireEater]

+1

Its funny to see people use the word "Ilegal" and think of Mexicans and people from south America. What about all the rest of the people that come here illegaly from other parts of the world and also use the system? And all the "white" people that are on welfare rather than bust there ass working for mimimum wages.

Ya, but those "other illegals" don't have access to jump the border to get here... which is why they are not flooding us in large quantities. And it also almost forces them to enter legally unless they are smuggled over here.

 

[CARNAGE!]

Please, I don't know what type of financial institution you work for, but as part of the USA Patriot act it is required that all financial institutions KYC (Know Your Customer), if your information doesn't add up...you don't get a bank account..end of discussion.
And as far as the buying them (ITINS & SS#s) off the street crap...it takes 20 seconds to verify a correct SS#.

I'm beginning to think you have no idea what you're talking about....well everyone here seems to think you're stupid...so I might buy into that.

LOL A Consular ID is a primary ID. SSN needed? Not needed to open a bank account. The financial institution I work for is one of the largest banks in the world.

All we have them do is sign a W8 form and the social is not necessary.

 

[RussZTT]

I say if they are over here illegally then send them back now. If they actually tried to become a US citizen, filled out the paper work and paid taxes like everyone else then they are more then welcome here in the US. I don't care if they are hard workers, send them back and that will give more jobs for people here. There are so many houses here now that builders are selling them cheaper to sell them.

 

[rastarajah]

I don't care if they are hard workers, send them back and that will give more jobs for people here. There are so many houses here now that builders are selling them cheaper to sell them.

Do you know as to why those houses are so "cheap"? And no it's not because "there are so many," it's because of the people that work on them.

Now, if the people working on them wanted a "fair pay" of what the trait pays, then the price would skyrocket half to the double of what you paid for your home or other new homes are worth.

 

[wurd2]

I also love knowing the fact that my ancestors were one of the brightest people to ever walk this earth.

This is where ancestral pride meets a level of absolute arrogance. Would you mind summarizing the intelligence factor of all cultures that have walked the Earth and then briefly support your cherished belief that your ancestors are among the brightest? You would do well to drop the us-and-them mentality.

The word Illegal is so loosely used now-a-days.

While this statement may be true, the term "illegal" is not loosely used in the context of immigration. An immigrant is either a citizen or not, legal or illegal. There are no shades of gray here.

 

[rastarajah]

This is where ancestral pride meets a level of absolute arrogance. Would you mind summarizing the intelligence factor of all cultures that have walked the Earth and then briefly support your cherished belief that your ancestors are among the brightest? You would do well to drop the us-and-them mentality.

How is this "absolute arrogance"? It is a proven fact that the people from Toltec, Maya, Olmec, Aztec and Teotihuacan were one of the brightest people to date - Call it arrogance, but I call it pride and facts.

If you want their accomplishments, be my guest and look for them yourself, google is one hell of a search engine. :beer:

While this statement may be true, the term "illegal" is not loosely used in the context of immigration. An immigrant is either a citizen or not, legal or illegal. There are no shades of gray here.

It is used well in this context, never did I say it was not, but you also clearly missed my point.

I will repeat my point once again for you:

Many people stress the fact that it is illegal, yet many of those people are ones to quickly go above the law for a measure of excitement or pleasure and disregard the fact of what they preach. I personally know a lot of people who stress, "Illegal is Illegal" but yet, they are the ones with engine swaps, upgraded fuel systems, etc. Do you see my logic here?

Fact of the matter is, before anyone goes on and preaches about "illegal," they first have to see where they stand as I'm sure a lot of people are not in compliance with the laws - be it from traffic violations, DUI, modification of vehicles (in the states it may concern, of course).

 

[Stewart_H]

Many people stress the fact that it is illegal, yet many of those people are ones to quickly go above the law for a measure of excitement or pleasure and disregard the fact of what they preach. I personally know a lot of people who stress, "Illegal is Illegal" but yet, they are the ones with engine swaps, upgraded fuel systems, etc. Do you see my logic here?

Fact of the matter is, before anyone goes on and preaches about "illegal," they first have to see where they stand as I'm sure a lot of people are not in compliance with the laws - be it from traffic violations, DUI, modification of vehicles (in the states it may concern, of course).

Raj, not a single person walking this earth is perfect. Yet, according to your logic, one must be perfect before that person can "preach" about illegal immigration, or stand steadfast in their opinion about illegal immigration being wrong. That's a tall order my friend.

Again, using your logic, how can one have a jury of peers judge a person who has committed a crime, when in fact they too are doing illegal activities, whether it be speeding, cheating on taxes, or any number of things?

The point is, since nobody is perfect, and we all commit illegal acts in one way or another, that does not prevent us from standing fast on immigration and the illegal aspects of being in this country without permission.

Stewart

 

[RussZTT]

Do you know as to why those houses are so "cheap"? And no it's not because "there are so many," it's because of the people that work on them.

Now, if the people working on them wanted a "fair pay" of what the trait pays, then the price would skyrocket half to the double of what you paid for your home or other new homes are worth.

Most of them are cheap as in prices because that is where the market is right now. My wife is a realtor and I hear it all the time. Its not because of the materials used or who actually builds them.

 

[rastarajah]

Raj, not a single person walking this earth is perfect. Yet, according to your logic, one must be perfect before that person can "preach" about illegal immigration, or stand steadfast in their opinion about illegal immigration being wrong. That's a tall order my friend.

Again, using your logic, how can one have a jury of peers judge a person who has committed a crime, when in fact they too are doing illegal activities, whether it be speeding, cheating on taxes, or any number of things?

The point is, since nobody is perfect, and we all commit illegal acts in one way or another, that does not prevent us from standing fast on immigration and the illegal aspects of being in this country without permission.

Stewart

Stewart, I understand no one on this earth is perfect, pretty easy concept to grasp. My main concerns (if you will) are those who knowingly break the law time after time, but yet give out those cries of "illegal" only when seen to their convenience.

My point is, if people really cared about what is legal and what is not, they should put more into prospective their daily actions and follow those, oh so precious laws. ;-)

Say like, I don't know.. putting on the front plates on your vehicle, Stewart? ;-)

 

[wurd2]

How is this "absolute arrogance"? It is a proven fact that the people from Toltec, Maya, Olmec, Aztec and Teotihuacan were one of the brightest people to date - Call it arrogance, but I call it pride and facts.

Arrogance is about making claims of superior importance. You wear your "love" of "knowing" that your ancestors are one of the "brightest people to date" like it's a crown. You claim this assessment of your ancestors is a "proven fact" as if there was some metric by which we can conclusively determine overall cultural superiority. I liken your attitude to primal in-group out-group behavior.

If you want their accomplishments, be my guest and look for them yourself, google is one hell of a search engine.

I would honestly be interested in what these cultures you’ve listed have contributed to civilization. But I’m not about to go digging for evidence in support of your claim. How about a few examples here so I can try and appreciate your genetic pride?

It is used well in this context, never did I say it was not, but you also clearly missed my point.

I will repeat my point once again for you:

Many people stress the fact that it is illegal, yet many of those people are ones to quickly go above the law for a measure of excitement or pleasure and disregard the fact of what they preach. I personally know a lot of people who stress, "Illegal is Illegal" but yet, they are the ones with engine swaps, upgraded fuel systems, etc. Do you see my logic here?

Fact of the matter is, before anyone goes on and preaches about "illegal," they first have to see where they stand as I'm sure a lot of people are not in compliance with the laws - be it from traffic violations, DUI, modification of vehicles (in the states it may concern, of course).

You definitely chased a red herring here. The topic is illegal immigration. The context in which we are using legal and illegal is clearly laid before us in terms of U.S. citizenship. I don’t think any of us here have a use for your tangent spiel on irrelevant uses of these terms.

 

[rastarajah]

Arrogance is about making claims of superior importance. You wear your "love" of "knowing" that your ancestors are one of the "brightest people to date" like it's a crown. You claim this assessment of your ancestors is a "proven fact" as if there was some metric by which we can conclusively determine overall cultural superiority. I liken your attitude to primal in-group out-group behavior.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence or reading comprehension, but do you know what, "were one of the brightest people.." mean? In its context, it is implying there are MORE.

What little of "arrogance" I will spew is this - they were Superior to many civilizations of its time.

I would honestly be interested in what these cultures you’ve listed have contributed to civilization. But I’m not about to go digging for evidence in support of your claim. How about a few examples here so I can try and appreciate your genetic pride?

If you want evidence, search for yourself as I already know what I have to and what I have studied for years. No one is putting a gun to your head and making you believe what I have to say as it is your word against mine; vice-versa, but if you wish to find out, be my guest and search as I am not here to enlighten you or feel the need to have to prove you otherwise on this topic.

You definitely chased a red herring here. The topic is illegal immigration. The context in which we are using legal and illegal is clearly laid before us in terms of U.S. citizenship. I don’t think any of us here have a use for your tangent spiel on irrelevant uses of these terms.

Are you really all that clueless as to what my arguement is solely based on??

 

[Stewart_H]

My point is, if people really cared about what is legal and what is not, they should put more into prospective their daily actions and follow those, oh so precious laws. ;-)

I agree to a point. I really do. But in my opinion, it is a tad (just a little bit) idealistic.

And while things can be described as "black and white" when it comes to being legal and illegal, there is also severity of the crime.

Say like, I don't know.. putting on the front plates on your vehicle, Stewart? ;-)

Is speeding against the law? Yes. But so is murder.

Because I speed, does that mean I give up my right to take a stand against murder, saying it's wrong and illegal? In my opinion, no. I still have a right to take a stand, say it's wrong, and not open myself up for judgement just because I speed.

Is having a friendly race with a buddy on a deserted street against the law? Yes. But so is stealing.

Because I race on the street (in what I consider a safe manner, NEVER endangering anyone except myself and the other driver...yeah I know, copout), does that mean I give up my right to take a stand against stealing, saying it's wrong and illegal? In my opinion, no. I still have a right to take a stand, say it's wrong, and not open myself up for judgement just because I don't confine my racing to a track.

Is having no front plate against the law? Yes. But so is being in this country illegally.

Because I have no front plate, does that mean I give up my right to take a stand against illegal immigration, saying it's wrong and illegal? In my opinion, no. I still have a right to take a stand, say it's wrong, and not open myself up for judgement just because I don't have a front plate on my truck.

Stewart :beer:

 

[wurd2]

I don't mean to insult your intelligence or reading comprehension, but do you know what, "were one of the brightest people.." mean? In its context, it is implying there are MORE.

If your best response here is to attack my reading comprehension and address a straw man argument, then I’m not sure I should dignify it with a response of my own. All of my responses have acknowledged your claim of one among many superior cultures. I clearly placed emphasis on your love and certainty that your ancestors are one of the “brightest people to date”.

What little of "arrogance" I will spew is this - they were Superior to many civilizations of its time.

First you mention my reading comprehension, and now you are changing your claim!

If you want evidence, search for yourself as I already know what I have to and what I have studied for years. No one is putting a gun to your head and making you believe what I have to say as it is your word against mine; vice-versa, but if you wish to find out, be my guest and search as I am not here to enlighten you or feel the need to have to prove you otherwise on this topic.

You’ve studied these cultures for years and cannot provide me with a few examples to support your claim? As a bit of argumentative advice, when you make a claim, don’t expect the skeptics to support it.

Are you really all that clueless as to what my arguement is solely based on??

The meaning of legal and illegal need not be discussed in a debate over illegal immigration. The meaning of these terms, in this context, are as clear as day.

 

[CARNAGE!]

I would honestly be interested in what these cultures you’ve listed have contributed to civilization. But I’m not about to go digging for evidence in support of your claim. How about a few examples here so I can try and appreciate your genetic pride?



.

What do you want to know? They had superior farming skills. Even more so then what we have today. Their calender is a hell of a lot more accurate. First to use the number 0. Superior doctors. They were a lot bigger then the average European. They were not greedy, they shared. Their whole entire way of treating women was different to the Europeans. They were also the first to use plastic. They made shoes of them. There's a lot more I dont feel like writing about.

 

[rastarajah]

If your best response here is to attack my reading comprehension and address a straw man argument, then I’m not sure I should dignify it with a response of my own. All of my responses have acknowledged your claim of one among many superior cultures. I clearly placed emphasis on your love and certainty that your ancestors are one of the “brightest people to date”.

Wow.. :lol:

First, I made it clear that I was not insulting your comprehension nor did I wish to make it sound that way as I am not one to take "jabs" at people in this manner. You are clearly changing/taking words out of context to try to benefit your arguement that somehow I indulging myself in this great sense of "arrogance."

That highlighted part in red CLEARLY shows how you took things out of context.

First you mention my reading comprehension, and now you are changing your claim!

PLEASE, OH, PLEASE - Back read and PLEASE show me where I stated they are "the best" as I CLEARLY stated "one" of them, meaning - THERE ARE MORE.

You’ve studied these cultures for years and cannot provide me with a few examples to support your claim? As a bit of argumentative advice, when you make a claim, don’t expect the skeptics to support it.

I don't need your support, that is why I have not taken the time to note them. I could not care any less of what you think of my arguement, honestly. If you want to educate yourself, please do so and pick up an encyclopedia or a factual source of your choice.

The meaning of legal and illegal need not be discussed in a debate over illegal immigration. The meaning of these terms, in this context, are as clear as day.

I am not even going to try anymore. I see your point, but you are not WANTING to see mine..

There is no point in your "ancestor arguement" and the smart thing to do would be to just drop it.

As for Stewart, it's not illegal until you (we) get caught, right?! :thumbsup:

 

[wurd2]

What do you want to know? They had superior farming skills. Even more so then what we have today. Their calender is a hell of a lot more accurate. First to use the number 0. Superior doctors. They were a lot bigger then the average European. They were not greedy, they shared. Their whole entire way of treating women was different to the Europeans. They were also the first to use plastic. They made shoes of them. There's a lot more I dont feel like writing about.

Well thanks for some support here CARNAGE!.

How certain are you that they (not sure which specific culture you are referring to) were the first culture to use zero? I'm afraid zero was first used by Arabic cultures. In the realm of mathematics, there is quite a bit of Arabic influence. I would be interested to know the truth of this.

Also, did any of the cultures mentioned by rastarajah make any contributions to science or mathematics?

 

[Stewart_H]

As for Stewart, it's not illegal until you (we) get caught, right?! :thumbsup:

Ummmm, heh, no brah, it's still wrong and illegal. :sheepish grin:

And yeah, I still have a clean front bumper and a loud exhaust.

Stewart :burnout:

 

[wurd2]

rastarajah, I'm done responding to your red herrings. First you claim your ancestors are one of the “brightest people to date”, and then you back-peddle and claim that they are one of the “brightest cultures of their time”. My whole problem with your original post is your crown of arrogance. Other than this, you have a lot of nothing to say.

 

[CARNAGE!]

Well thanks for some support here CARNAGE!.

How certain are you that they (not sure which specific culture you are refering to) were the first culture to use zero? I'm afraid zero was first used by Arabic cultures. In the realm of mathematics, there is quite a bit of Arabic influence. I would be interested to know the truth of this.

Sorry. The Maya were one of the first civilizations to use zero in their calculations.

Here's some more info on that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_(number)

 

[rastarajah]

rastarajah, I'm done responding to your red herrings. First you claim your ancestors are one of the “brightest people to date”, and then you back-peddle and claim that they are one of the “brightest cultures of their time”. My whole problem with your original post is your crown of arrogance. Other than this, you have a lot of nothing to say.

Wow, you just don't stop.. :lol:

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - let me see where I am back peddling as I am not seeing it. As for the, "of their time" part, that is a figure of speech.

I will still back my ANY of my claims 100%.