"The ZL1 name should be protected"

[GTSpartan]

I am honestly asking you this, not a smart ass comment. In your experience and at least basic knowledge of aero/downforce. Do you think a wide open gate would have been better?

I really don't know (know not as in "I don't think so"... I really don't know). I would like a quick look over if you have the time. I know water drainage was considered in the design...

Not trying to bait you, I just really don't understand aero... and input would be greatly appreciated.

Maybe, maybe not. To keep air from reaching certain underhood areas, they probably needed to add that "deflector". On the drivers side, the intake tube is right in the way, which would likely disrupt airflow (create high pressure), so that insert (the notched section) most likely helps smoothly redirect the air out the hood vents.

Not an expect in aerodynamics either, just pointing out that there are compromises on street going cars. I am sure their CFD analysis helped make many of these decisions for them. Water/dirt/critter mgmt I'm sure contributed too.

 

[thePill]

Maybe, maybe not. To keep air from reaching certain underhood areas, they probably needed to add that "deflector". On the drivers side, the intake tube is right in the way, which would likely disrupt airflow (create high pressure), so that insert (the notched section) most likely helps smoothly redirect the air out the hood vents.

Not an expect in aerodynamics either, just pointing out that there are compromises on street going cars. I am sure their CFD analysis helped make many of these decisions for them. Water/dirt/critter mgmt I'm sure contributed too.

Thanks man, I guess I need to see where the hood rest and look at the engine components that would be in the way or affected be water leakage.

Again, thanks for the quickie...

 

[GTSpartan]

Thanks man, I guess I need to see where the hood rest and look at the engine components that would be in the way or affected be water leakage.

Again, thanks for the quickie...

I was wondering about that weird notch on the drivers side, and figured there had to be something physically in the way. A quick Google showed the intake tube running right through there. Judging by where those vents are located and the front of the engine, they probably need to make sure water just doesn't pour all over the pulleys in the event a rain storm hits.

If you wanted to get really serious, and didn't care about modding your car, you'd basically box in the front end to those vents for max flow, and keep almost all the air out of the engine compartment.

 

[thePill]

I was wondering about that weird notch on the drivers side, and figured there had to be something physically in the way. A quick Google showed the intake tube running right through there. Judging by where those vents are located and the front of the engine, they probably need to make sure water just doesn't pour all over the pulleys in the event a rain storm hits.

If you wanted to get really serious, and didn't care about modding your car, you'd basically box in the front end to those vents for max flow, and keep almost all the air out of the engine compartment.

I think that because there is so much front air intake from the grille and lower grille, it creates a large amount of hood lift. Regardless of the shape or commendations the under hood box provides, it acts as a large outlet valve for any under hood pressure. I don't know if an open box would even have a huge effect on down-force... With the current design, it would act as a hot air vacuum , expelling under hood hot air and increasing down-force...

Just kind of free thinking, I don't really have a clue on this subject. (anyone else want to chime in?)

Pretty cool design if it does in fact channel rain water away from belts, increases downforce and extracts heat...

 

[Tob]

The 'funnel' side of the deflector is just that.

The ZL1 manages air very much the same way the Tiger Racing hood works on the Boss 302S.

Boss 302S Wind Tunnel Testing - YouTube

 

[Captain Beyond]

I think the road course guys care but they are probably out numbered by drag racing guys and ‘commoners’ who really just care about 0-60 and the ¼ mile. Just like anything else, people take note about what matters to them and don’t care too much about all the rest. Most people aren’t going to ‘play the road course card’ if they don’t care at all about road course racing. There are plenty of people over at C5 who said the ZL1 didn’t live up to the hype because of the ¼ and 0-60 numbers. There are also people over at C5 saying the exact same thing about their modified SSs handing it to ZL1 owners on the street. The fact is, if that is what is important to you – you are probably better off buying a SS and modifying it. It will definitely be cheaper to achieve the ZL1’s straight-line performance.

What’s cool to me about the ZL1 is the entire package. If I wanted to start from scratch with a car, I would have come up with something similar to the ZL1 (yeah, it would weigh less, etc.). Everything on the car was done with a purpose for performance. Suspension tuning, aero in the wind tunnel, PTM… the engineering track time alone is worth 10k IMO. I could spend $60,000 on my ’91 and may not equal the track capabilities of the ZL1. It would take a lot of testing and tuning on my part. If I were interested only in straight line performance, the ZL1 would probably not be my cup of tea.

It is interesting to me here the ratio of drag racing types to road course people. It is also interesting how I’ve seen Camaro guys called mullet boys a few times already in this thread (have been forever really) but in my mind drag racing can be better associated with mullets than road racing. Just my opinion.

The fact is right now that things are changing with these cars and I think it is for the better. Camaro and Mustang have been the laughing stock of most Europeans and ‘car snobs’. They have been known as basically 1 dimensional drag racing $#!T-boxes around the world and really haven’t been respected that much. One thing I enjoy about the ZL1 going to the ring and getting that lap time is it really sticks it in the ribs of the BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc. owners. Most of them will never admit this because they will say ‘its still a Camaro’ , ‘the interior is junk’ or whatever excuse they have. At the end of the day they know they’ve been beaten at their own game when it comes to overall performance and value even if they would never be caught dead in one, and by a ‘fat pig’ at that. I like the European cars all the same but it is nice to say what the Camaro has done and hopefully the stereotype changes. Get the Mustang with 650 HP over there and now you have two truly world-class cars in this segment.

Now that this bar has been set it is better for everyone. Even if you don’t care about road course times – would you not be happy if the Mustang does better at the track? Competition is best for the consumer no matter who is the ultimate performing vehicle. Why do you think Ford has done what they’ve done in 2011 and 2013 with the GT500? One big reason is the ZL1. And why was the ZL1 created? One big reason was the GT500.

Well, I guess I'm just a "commoner" who prefers drag racing.
It's great to see these cars perform on a road course, but (like many on here have said) a very small percentage will actually race each other there. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that these cars are engineered to handle a road course, but most of the racing will take place on the drag strips and streets. This is reality and where reputations are made. 10-20 years from now, no one will remember or care about lap times. This kinda reminds me of the 80s-early 90s when 5.0 fox body Mustangs were faster, but Camaros handled better. Yet, when looking back to that era, everyone only remembers the Mustang's street and strip dominance. I think this is the way the current generation of these cars will be remembered in the future. :coolman:
As far as the mullet comments, I remember all my Camaro friends had them. :lol1:

 

[Captain Beyond]

The only reason people are so hyped up is because Al O threw a total shit fit when SVT released the GT500 specs. GM is an unlikable company to begin with, and the way they've behaved over this makes them even less so. I mean, open letters, powerpoint presentations, theorizing on simulations...inferiority complex much?

Can you imagine Luca di Montezemolo writing an affirmation letter to Ferrari owners and running around challenging Stephan Winkelmann to run the Aventador on the Ring because he's butt hurt over the specifications? Give me a break. People that don't live in trailers usually don't behave this way.

They are both great cars and few, if any, people will pick one or the other based on specs, so GM is just exercising it's napoleon complex. GM certainly must know the reality is that the first ass raping a GT500 puts on a ZL1 (which it will) on the street will inspire much trash talking, so they are playing up lap times as much as possible. Just let me know when the first wheel to wheel ZL1 vs GT500 nurburgring race happens.

Another great post by DBK. :beer:

 

[Captain Beyond]

Yes, you likely covet some of the deluxe stock track features that most folks don't really care for. In reality, less than 1% of ZL1s or GT500s will ever see serious circle track time. Most will do a parade lap, and maybe an occasional chaperoned track day. Will these folks ever push the car to the limits that 1-2 second difference at VIR is noticeable? No, the handling across both cars is great, and likely a wash. I am sure both cars will be within fractions of a second on any given track. Regardless of stock capabilities, most diehard track fanatics will likely want to add their own dedicated track suspension that exceeds both the stock GT500 and ZL1 specs.

Most of these cars are Garage cars with an occasional romp at the 1/4 mile track or on the strip. That is where the GT500 will eat the ZL1's lunch, and dinner too. 300lbs less and 90HP deficit will be hard to overcome. Mod for Mod, the GT500 runs away from the ZL1 by a greater margin than the stock difference. Nothing against the ZL1, but the bar has been raised far above the current ZL1 specs. The GM response to the 2013 GT500 is the car a GM fan will want to own. Also, let's stop crying about traction on rock hard street tires. Anyone that takes a 11 second RWD car down the strip on street tires is just asking for trouble. Like fractional track time differences, the ET times on stock tires are just for bragging rights. Trap speed is the real indicator of a car's potential, and how fun they are to drive.

+1 :thumbsup:

 

[Devious_Snake]

Maybe chebbie should more be concerned about protecting the volt since today they halted production and are laying off over 1K people.... :nonono:

 

[Captain Beyond]

Maybe chebbie should more be concerned about protecting the volt since today they halted production and are laying off over 1K people.... :nonono:

...and this. :coolman:

Mustang sales nearly double in February 2012; beats Camaro, Challenger

 

[Sinister04L]

...and this. :coolman:

Mustang sales nearly double in February 2012; beats Camaro, Challenger

I saw that yesterday. $3000 incentives and high monthly fleet sales helps a lot. Curious to see the March totals.

 

[thePill]

I saw that yesterday. $3000 incentives and high monthly fleet sales helps a lot. Curious to see the March totals.

The national incentives on Mustang models is $500 and $1500. I believe the national incentive for the Camaro is $1000. Any savings higher than those are dealer incentives and really has nothing to do with Ford themselves. This would not include fleet sales this month, production of the 2013 just started on the 27th of February. Those sales are dealers clearing the lots in preparation for the 2013 stock. It may be like this again next month (depends on how many 2011 and 2012s are left.)

 

[Snagged]

I saw that yesterday. $3000 incentives and high monthly fleet sales helps a lot. Curious to see the March totals.

Not having a car in production for a number of years and re-releasing it to the public helps a lot in the number of sales too. ;-)

 

[SVT 99]

The national incentives on Mustang models is $500 and $1500. I believe the national incentive for the Camaro is $1000. Any savings higher than those are dealer incentives and really has nothing to do with Ford themselves. This would not include fleet sales this month, production of the 2013 just started on the 27th of February. Those sales are dealers clearing the lots in preparation for the 2013 stock. It may be like this again next month (depends on how many 2011 and 2012s are left.)

Do you know if the 13 shelby's will have incentives right off the bat? Also what kind of incentives were on the 12's both dealer and national when it first came out if any?

 

[Chris!]

Do you know if the 13 shelby's will have incentives right off the bat? Also what kind of incentives were on the 12's both dealer and national when it first came out if any?

There will be markups at some dealers, absolutely zero incentives on '13 GT500s whatsoever

 

[IOMZL1]

Well, I guess I'm just a "commoner" who prefers drag racing.
It's great to see these cars perform on a road course, but (like many on here have said) a very small percentage will actually race each other there. Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that these cars are engineered to handle a road course, but most of the racing will take place on the drag strips and streets. This is reality and where reputations are made. 10-20 years from now, no one will remember or care about lap times. This kinda reminds me of the 80s-early 90s when 5.0 fox body Mustangs were faster, but Camaros handled better. Yet, when looking back to that era, everyone only remembers the Mustang's street and strip dominance. I think this is the way the current generation of these cars will be remembered in the future. :coolman:
As far as the mullet comments, I remember all my Camaro friends had them. :lol1:

So in 10 years the Boss LS will only be remembered for straight line acceleration?

 

[Kewlv8]

I really like to leave Sales totals out of any discussions when it comes to discussions about performance cars. It is really irrelevant. It's not like manufacturers make as many cars as they can and 'hope' to sell them all. In the 'real world' sales targets that guide sales are well planned between Finance, Operations, Sales, and Marketing. Companies purposely steer sales lower to garner more margin, or to throttle back volume on some products to provide capacity to others. I am sure if the ZL1 sells 4,200 units in 2013, and the GT500 sells 3,000, (or viced-versa) there will be some kind of moral victory implied. :lol: Leave those arguments for the V6 fanbois on Camaro5.

There will be markups at some dealers, absolutely zero incentives on '13 GT500s whatsoever

C'mon, we can dream. Stop with the reality checks. What's next, you will tell us there is no Santa Claus. :thumbsup:

 

[Chris!]

There is no Santa Claus.

WWE wrestling is fake

The tooth fairy is your mom (or dad, or parental guardian)

Bill did in fact have sexual relations with that woman





Reality is real

 

[91svtbird]

LOL Killin me here Chris....

 

[Kewlv8]

So in 10 years the Boss LS will only be remembered for straight line acceleration?

By many, especially in the nightmares of Camaro owners that remember those taillights growing ever smaller in the distance.....;-)

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