The Treadmill & Airplane debate solved & Explained

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Outlaw99

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Alright you bunch of degenerates. Solved and explained. You don't have to like it, you don't even have to agree with it. Physics doesn't require your approval in order to function the way they do. The riddle is designed for you to bicker. Some of y'all have zero understanding of Aeronautical Physics.

Will a plane on a treadmill take off or fly? There isn't anymore details than that. So, people insert their own terms and understanding to answer their perception of the question.

So, what do we know? Well, we know we have a treadmill, and we know we have an airplane. That's it. No other factors. No speed of an airplane, no speed of a treadmill, therefore as we insert our own determining factors that comes from our perception of the question, we answer it from our own perspective. But is that enough?

The only one of you who nailed it, is Deceptive. Let's breakdown the characteristics of sustained, controlled flight.

In order for any winged aircraft to achieve flight, you need 4 forces. Thrust, lift, weight and drag. Yes you need all 4. Not 2, not 3. All 4. Thrust alone, without the other 3 doesn't mean diddly squat. All 4 must be present to have ANY lift and hope sustained, controllable flight.

Four-forces-of-flight.png

Again, we do not have enough information to come to a conclusion, so let's take what we know. There are 3 possible scenarios with 3 possible outcomes.

Scenario 1) There is a pane on a treadmill. As the plane increases it's thrust, the treadmill equally increases its speed. In this scenario, there is no lift. Lift is determined by the amount of air that passes over and under an airfoil. Air needs to pass over the airfoil to create negative pressure under the wing which creates one of the forces needed, Lift. If the airplane and treadmill are matched in speed and thrust, there is no wind or air generated to create negative pressure. Scenario 1 equals no flight.

Scenario 2) There is a plane on a treadmill. The planes thrust is less than the speed of the treadmill. In this scenario, there is not sufficient air or wind to generate negative pressure on the airfoil to produce one of the 4 needed elements to produce lift off or flight. Scenario 2, the airplane moves in reverse. Due to the speed of the treadmill is greater than the speed of the airplanes thrust.

Scenario 3) There is an airplane on a treadmill. The thrust of the airplane is greater than the reverse speed of the treadmill. If enough speed (thrust) is achieved, then the air passing above the airfoil will generate negative pressure under the wing and produce lift. Scenario 3, the airplane will achieve flight.

You do not have to like it. You don't have to agree with it. The physics won't change because of your feelings.

Feel free to read The Airman's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge. Here is a link for your enjoyment. This was the book I had to know front and back to pass the Federal Exam. Enjoy.


Degenerates.
 
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72MachOne99GT

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I have been told repeatedly that scenario 1 will result in lift and subsequent flight.

**** everything whether you comment on this thread or not.
 

blk02edge

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OP do you realize that ANY AND ALL operational aircraft will have thrust and lift regardless of this absolute retard of a treadmill? The rolling resistance would easily be overcome by very small amounts of throttle unless you have awful wheel bearings or the brakes are stuck

Deceptive's retarded argument was taking wings off an aircraft and saying "hEy nOw iT wOnT FlY"... well no shit...

All your 4 forces ARE present, treadmill or no treadmill...

Until planes are somehow powered by their wheels you non flight people will remain to be wrong in the most sad way.

*adds the airman handbook to somehow close argument* sorry, wrong.



:D
 
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Outlaw99

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OP do you realize that ANY AND ALL operational aircraft will have thrust and lift regardless of this absolute retard of a treadmill?

Deceptive's retarded argument was taking wings off an aircraft and saying "hEy nOw iT wOnT FlY"... well no shit...

All your 4 forces ARE present, treadmill or no treadmill...

Until planes are somehow powered by their wheels you non flight people will remain to be wrong in the most sad way.

*adds the airman handbook to somehow close argument* sorry, wrong.

:D
an airplane is stationary, and not moving until thrust is applied. Its on the ground. In this question, its on a treadmill. The treadmill is the runway. If an airplane is not moving, sitting on a treadmill for a runway, it will not fly until thrust is applied. The trick to the question is, if the plane, while on the ground starts moving forward, at the same speed a treadmill begins moving backwards underneath of it, no the plane does not fly. It remains stationary. Its not accelerating because the ground, aka the runway, aka the treadmill is moving at the same speed against the thrust of the planes ability to move forward. A plane must move forward, to generate speed to generate air to pass over the airfoil to produce lift. An airplane, simply by its nature as an airplane does not fly, until all 4 elements are present. With the treadmill as the runway, moving backwards in relation to the airplane accelerating, you only have 3 of the 4 forces applied. Thrust and drag and weight. The Drag is greater then Thrust, in this trick question, in fact its producing negative effects, which means lift will not be present.


Its a trick question.
 
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ZYBORG

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OP is a ****** and dead wrong.

wheels dont matter/conveyor belt dont matter…. Thrust will be generated just the same. Plane will begin path forward and drag/lift will take its effect.

Follow the science!
 

blk02edge

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an airplane is stationary, and not moving until thrust is applied. Its on the ground. In this question, its on a treadmill. The treadmill is the runway. If an airplane is not moving, sitting on a treadmill for a runway, it will not fly until thrust is applied. The trick to the question is, if the plane, while on the ground starts moving forward, at the same speed a treadmill begins moving backwards underneath of it, no the plane does not fly. It remains stationary. Its not accelerating because the ground, aka the runway, aka the treadmill is moving at the same speed against the thrust of the planes ability to move forward. A plane must move forward, to generate speed to generate air to pass over the airfoil to produce lift. An airplane, simply by its nature as an airplane does not fly, until all 4 elements are present. With the treadmill as the runway, moving backwards in relation to the airplane accelerating, you only have 3 of the 4 forces applied. Thrust and drag and weight. The Drag is greater then Thrust, in this trick question, in fact its producing negative effects, which means lift will not be present.


Its a trick question.
Sure, if the plane never goes above idle...

The problem with the question is a plane will always move forward with thrust. There is no "matching wheel speeds"
 
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Rb0891

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I mean if the plane would fly, they probably wouldn't need to put fans on treadmills...
 

rotor_powerd

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OP spent a lot of time typing to make himself look like a moron. Massive fail

You do understand that the wheels are free to turn independently of how fast the plane is moving, right? The thrust of the engines pushes the plane forward regardless of what the wheels are doing. The treadmill will just cause the wheels to spin twice as fast as if they were on stationary ground.

Anyone that brings up running on a treadmill as a comparison is also a moron. Your feet create your movement on the treadmill. It would only be comparable if the planes wheels were what created its acceleration.
 

capnkirk52

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an airplane is stationary, and not moving until thrust is applied. Its on the ground. In this question, its on a treadmill. The treadmill is the runway. If an airplane is not moving, sitting on a treadmill for a runway, it will not fly until thrust is applied. The trick to the question is, if the plane, while on the ground starts moving forward, at the same speed a treadmill begins moving backwards underneath of it, no the plane does not fly. It remains stationary. Its not accelerating because the ground, aka the runway, aka the treadmill is moving at the same speed against the thrust of the planes ability to move forward. A plane must move forward, to generate speed to generate air to pass over the airfoil to produce lift. An airplane, simply by its nature as an airplane does not fly, until all 4 elements are present. With the treadmill as the runway, moving backwards in relation to the airplane accelerating, you only have 3 of the 4 forces applied. Thrust and drag and weight. The Drag is greater then Thrust, in this trick question, in fact its producing negative effects, which means lift will not be present.


Its a trick question.
No it's not. Look at it this way-----what happens if you reverse the direction of the treadmill? Does it slingshot the plane forward? Of course not. Does the plane take off? Of course it does.
 

CompOrange04GT

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Bunch of non plane flying mother ****ers talking about planes flying.

Yall got as much experience with this shit as the Applebees sluts I bork
 

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