Tales from the "Dark Side".

[365 Saleen]

Throughout my career of 40 or so years, I have worked for several Ford Dealerships, in 5 different States, ran my own Ford Performance shop for 7 years, worked at various independent and performance shops.
This is my first foray into working for a non Ford Dealership. (in the classic sense) In fact it is a Chevrolet/Cadillac Dealership. I just finished my 7th week there.
Needless to say, there are many differences, some quite dramatic. First off, I like my current position at this particular Chevrolet Dealership. I am making good money (more than at the Ford Dealership, by a lot) and while I have a long history of really really "hating" GM, I can overcome some of that for a paycheck. Lol.
When it comes to automobile manufacturers, I can say with no doubt, that they all have problems, regardless of make. After all, the largest part of ANY Dealership, regardless of brand, is the Service department, because everyone's shit breaks down.
I have had extensive experience with Ford Diagnostics, starting out with a simple "STAR" tester, then on to the NGS (New Generation Star) tester, then the WDS, followed by the IDS and finally FDRS. In fact I am about 2 classroom sessions away from being a Ford Senior Master Tech. I would have obtained that years ago if I would have stayed put at any of the various Ford Dealerships. I always thought Ford was behind the 8 ball when it came to WSM, (Work Shop Manuals) and diagnostic routines.
Boy, Howdy...was I wrong. GM sucks. Period. When it comes to Diagnostic support, this has been the most difficult part of assimilating into the GM way of doing things.
With Ford, if you have a CEL code, you go to the PCED for that code and get a printout of the diagnostic routine, which includes any relevant connector views and pinouts with directions on which connector on which module and which pin # to test.
With GM, it sometimes just says, "test the appropriate wire at the appropriate connector at the appropriate module". Mmmmm. OK? So off to the wire diagram to find out which module, connector and wire is "appropriate". How obtuse can you get?
Anyway, maybe I am spoiled by having relevant information spoon fed to me to perform a diagnostic.
Seeing how this rant has gone on long enough, I will leave it as is. I could expand on this subject quite easily, but i won't bore anyone further.

 

[me32]

Actually thanks for sharing. As you gain more time there would be great if you would keep this thread updated with the good and the bad.

Ive also always seen the ford master tech programs as big plus.

 

[CobraBob]

I hope enough good outweighs the bad to keep you there. Sounds like there's a world of difference between GM dealerships and Ford dealerships.

 

[365 Saleen]

If you think that Ford has a lot of production problems, and they do, GM has the same issues. The new Blazer? Yes, that fine tuned piece of, well, lets say it needs some work. There is a recall right now for the jack in the spare tire area for changing the tire. The recall simply states, "Remove Jack from vehicle and dispose of". Apparently, it is not able to support the weight of the vehicle. (it is a scissor jack) Why, you ask? Because it is made out of PLASTIC!!!. WTF? What brain dead "engineer" thought that would work? And what brain dead moron gave the OK for that jack to be included in the vehicle for production? Holy Hanna! (IDK what that means, my wife uses it a lot..LOL)

 

[CobraBob]

What?! It's actually a plastic jack? Wow! Is that a first in the industry, because I've never heard of a plastic scissor jack from a manufacturer's factory.

 

[365 Saleen]

What?! It's actually a plastic jack? Wow! Is that a first in the industry, because I've never heard of a plastic scissor jack from a manufacturer's factory.
View attachment 1715483

Yes. Lol. I will take a picture of one when I go into work on Monday.

 

[365 Saleen]

I hope enough good outweighs the bad to keep you there. Sounds like there's a world of difference between GM dealerships and Ford dealerships.

A lot of differences is in how the Dealership is run. Just because I can make good money at this Chevy Dealer and not the Ford Dealer I was at has more to do with how the Service department is run. It is not a real reflection on quality of product per se.
The fact that Maine is one of the few States were Chevrolet actually out sells the Ford F-Series has a lot to do with it as well. Chevy and GMC pick ups are everywhere. It keeps the service department busy.

 

[DSG2003Mach1]

Because it is made out of PLASTIC!!!

CoMpOsIte Is BeTtEr

 

[Blown 89]

I made the switch to two GM products, a 12 cts-v and a 17 Volt. I can confirm that GM engineers are all mentally handicapped.

The most inappropriate parts are made out of plastic, the most serviced parts are inaccessible without disassembling the entire car, and their idea of longevity for typical 100k wear items is 5k miles.

Fuel line elbows on a CTS-V? Made of thin plastic so they crack and leak. How do you get to it? Take out the entire rear suspension and carriage. How long do these parts last before cracking? 10k miles. Suspension bushings? Non replaceable. Mine went bad at 10k. Need to change the alternator? Start by removing the front of the car, radiator, fans, heat exchanger, hoses, and steering pump (my day today btw).

GM cars are miserable pieces of shit.

 

[365 Saleen]

I made the switch to two GM products, a 12 cts-v and a 17 Volt. I can confirm that GM engineers are all mentally handicapped.

The most inappropriate parts are made out of plastic, the most serviced parts are inaccessible without disassembling the entire car, and their idea of longevity for typical 100k wear items is 5k miles.

Fuel line elbows on a CTS-V? Made of thin plastic so they crack and leak. How do you get to it? Take out the entire rear suspension and carriage. How long do these parts last before cracking? 10k miles. Suspension bushings? Non replaceable. Mine went bad at 10k. Need to change the alternator? Start by removing the front of the car, radiator, fans, heat exchanger, hoses, and steering pump (my day today btw).

GM cars are miserable pieces of shit.

It keeps me busy...
GM has issues with making their Direct Injectors last any length of time. Plus it takes weeks to get replacement Injectors. Another issue they are having is the hyd roller lifters on the LS engines. We are seeing quite a few failures on vehicles with less than 5K miles. So you end up pulling the heads and front of the engine apart so that you can replace the camshaft because it got damaged when the lifter failed, and inspect for metal contamination in the oil pan. For a new vehicle owner that can not make you feel very confident in the reliability of said vehicle.

 

[Silverstrike]

It keeps me busy...
GM has issues with making their Direct Injectors last any length of time. Plus it takes weeks to get replacement Injectors. Another issue they are having is the hyd roller lifters on the LS engines. We are seeing quite a few failures on vehicles with less than 5K miles. So you end up pulling the heads and front of the engine apart so that you can replace the camshaft because it got damaged when the lifter failed, and inspect for metal contamination in the oil pan. For a new vehicle owner that can not make you feel very confident in the reliability of said vehicle.

And they had to go psudo Ferrari for the Vette, I totally can not wait until the owners get to fork over a small fortune when the warranty goes bye bye to get the cam, timing chain, oil and water pump fixed when 75% of the car has to be disassembled to get to the engine. Guess what the C5 to 7 you can do most of that with just the radiator and said support being taken out only.

 

[Blown 89]

Plus it takes weeks to get replacement Injectors.

GM's parts supply chain is devastatingly poor.

 

[Crimson2v]

Working at a fleet as an ex Ford tech I cringe when I have to work on a Chevy or Dodge. The wiring diagrams and the workshop diagnostics are crudely written. I have ran into issues with the newer DI tahoes with carbon build up on the valves, I had to walnut shell blast the valves on this tahoe that had 35k miles on it. Why did they not put DI and port on them like Ford? Another issue we have had is with the Equinox and their lack of tolerating E85. I have also had issues with the 5.3's wiping out lifters, which is a big job. When I was pulling the head bolts out of the last one I did it felt like they were going to snap off in the block.

 

[*Jay*]

Throughout my career of 40 or so years, I have worked for several Ford Dealerships, in 5 different States, ran my own Ford Performance shop for 7 years, worked at various independent and performance shops.
This is my first foray into working for a non Ford Dealership. (in the classic sense) In fact it is a Chevrolet/Cadillac Dealership. I just finished my 7th week there.
Needless to say, there are many differences, some quite dramatic. First off, I like my current position at this particular Chevrolet Dealership. I am making good money (more than at the Ford Dealership, by a lot) and while I have a long history of really really "hating" GM, I can overcome some of that for a paycheck. Lol.
When it comes to automobile manufacturers, I can say with no doubt, that they all have problems, regardless of make. After all, the largest part of ANY Dealership, regardless of brand, is the Service department, because everyone's shit breaks down.
I have had extensive experience with Ford Diagnostics, starting out with a simple "STAR" tester, then on to the NGS (New Generation Star) tester, then the WDS, followed by the IDS and finally FDRS. In fact I am about 2 classroom sessions away from being a Ford Senior Master Tech. I would have obtained that years ago if I would have stayed put at any of the various Ford Dealerships. I always thought Ford was behind the 8 ball when it came to WSM, (Work Shop Manuals) and diagnostic routines.
Boy, Howdy...was I wrong. GM sucks. Period. When it comes to Diagnostic support, this has been the most difficult part of assimilating into the GM way of doing things.
With Ford, if you have a CEL code, you go to the PCED for that code and get a printout of the diagnostic routine, which includes any relevant connector views and pinouts with directions on which connector on which module and which pin # to test.
With GM, it sometimes just says, "test the appropriate wire at the appropriate connector at the appropriate module". Mmmmm. OK? So off to the wire diagram to find out which module, connector and wire is "appropriate". How obtuse can you get?
Anyway, maybe I am spoiled by having relevant information spoon fed to me to perform a diagnostic.
Seeing how this rant has gone on long enough, I will leave it as is. I could expand on this subject quite easily, but i won't bore anyone further.

Its sad but garbage WSM and Service Manuals are really widespread and not just confined to Automotive. Ive seen it in aviation, large ships and small craft systems as well. I am currently working on re-vamping service manuals where I work and actually used Ford as one of the best models (that I have experience with) of operational testing (computer assisted and manual) and navigating the levels of repair for fault isolation (system > subsystem > component). Sounds like I picked a good model, thanks for the confirmation!!!

 

[365 Saleen]

Update:
GM has already addressed the "plastic scissor jack" issue. Today I performed a PDI on a new TrailBlazer and the jack was now made out of metal.
GM really missed the boat on the Blazer/Trail Blazer. Compared to the new Bronco, it is nothing more than a glorified Equinox.
In other news, the HHR. Yes, that POS. It is worse than it looks. They have a real issue with the fuel lines rotting out and leaking fuel. 3rd one in in 2 weeks for fuel lines leaking. Other guys in the shop have said this is an ongoing issue for the last 5 years.
We have 4 Silverado's down in the shop with bad lifters. I have been waiting now for over 2 weeks for DI fuel injectors for another Silverado.
Always an adventure.

 

[me32]

Update:
GM has already addressed the "plastic scissor jack" issue. Today I performed a PDI on a new TrailBlazer and the jack was now made out of metal.
GM really missed the boat on the Blazer/Trail Blazer. Compared to the new Bronco, it is nothing more than a glorified Equinox.
In other news, the HHR. Yes, that POS. It is worse than it looks. They have a real issue with the fuel lines rotting out and leaking fuel. #rd one in in 2 weeks for fuel lines leaking. Other guys in the shop have said this is an ongoing issue for the last 5 years.
We have 4 Silverado's down in the shop with bad lifters. I have been waiting now for over 2 weeks for DI fuel injectors for another Silverado.
Always an adventure.

For the silverado all they all 5.3L?

 

[365 Saleen]

For the silverado all they all 5.3L?

No, you can get a 2.7L turbo 4 cylinder (gutless wonder) a 4.8L V-8, the 5.3L V-8 and the 6.0L V-8.

 

[me32]

No, you can get a 2.7L turbo 4 cylinder (gutless wonder) a 4.8L V-8, the 5.3L V-8 and the 6.0L V-8.

Sorry i ment to say are all the lifter issues you are dealing with on the 5.3L?