Supercharger or Cams???

[lemosley01]

I would imagine that it's easier to put a S/C car into the mid 12's than it is a cammed car for your 'normal' driver. Bob Cosby and others are just freaks in their ability to drive consistently into the 11's like that. Most S/C cars aren't running the kinds of ETs they see.

Everything quadcammer brought up in his post about installation of the cams is something to really consider. When you look at them $ for $ a blower might not be THAT much more expensive, and it's got lots more power potential.

 

[Wylde Horses]

Originally posted by quadcammer
you will need a solid axle, short gears, and some damn serious driving(i.e. powershifting) before you are going 11s NA.

there are about 10 to 15 people that regularly go 11s in an NA cobra that i know about.

there are about 600 people in the high 11s with simple blown combos.

That's the thing that kinda troubles me. Low twelves have been done n/a without cams with a great degree of regularity. As you mentioned a few even into the elevens. For the cost involved with installing a supercharger, I would expect to see close to a second worth of ET. But most blower guys get low 12s to high 11s, maybe a gain of 5 tenths from their previous best time. It just doesn't seem worth it. Hell, for the 2 or maybe 3 tenths cams will give you, they hardly seem worth it for the cost involved either. :shrug:

 

[lemosley01]

Originally posted by Wylde Horses
That's the thing that kinda troubles me. Low twelves have been done n/a without cams with a great degree of regularity. As you mentioned a few even into the elevens. For the cost involved with installing a supercharger, I would expect to see close to a second worth of ET. But most blower guys get low 12s to high 11s, maybe a gain of 5 tenths from their previous best time. It just doesn't seem worth it. Hell, for the 2 or maybe 3 tenths cams will give you, they hardly seem worth it for the cost involved either. :shrug:

'A great deal of regularity for a few people' should be the phrase. I doubt most of us will be able to put a bolt-on 99/01 Cobra into the Low 12's with any degree of regularity.

Those guys that are now running low 12s or 11's with their superchargers probably shaved a second or more off of their 1/4 times because they were probably low 13/high 12 drivers.

You have more potential with the blower but the driver does have an awful lot to do with it.

But to have a blower...ah...I dream of it. MAD power on tap at anytime, not just when you're running in the 1/4.

I guess one could make the argument that until you consistently can drive your car at or near it's 'theoretical ET/trap speed' you shouldn't do any mods.

Maybe we should do a poll to see how much people dropped from their times after adding a blower, nitrous, or cams? Then we wouldn't have supposition and bench-racing to go off.

How's that sound SVT Chic? Maybe it will help you make up your mind?

 

[Wylde Horses]

That's sorta the thing. I'm watching one guy who had his car in the low 12s (12.1 I believe was his best time) when he installed a supercharger with intercooler. I expected he would drop about a second. So did he. The best he has been able to pull off has been an 11.6. This is in a drag oriented car with sticky tires, the whole deal. Don't get me wrong, that's a real good time and faster then I'll probably ever go, but all the expense for only 5 tenths? That's where I get hung up on power adders, the engine is delivering 50% more power, but where is it hiding on the timeslip? (Well, other then the trap speed...)

 

[lemosley01]

I can see your point, but, by the same token, where else is he going to pick up another .5 second from? Compared to internal engine work to get that same .5, a supercharger can look downright cheap!

 

[Wylde Horses]

Yes, that's true. The only other thing you could do would be to go big bore, meaning you gotta build a whole new engine. I kinda just figure if I'm only be able to knock off 5 tenths, I might as well run a little slower and save the cash and trouble and just be astisfied with what I got. That's just me though. :beer:

 

[SVT Chic]

Originally posted by lemosley01

How's that sound SVT Chic? Maybe it will help you make up your mind?

Actually, seeing each person's points makes me want to go with cams more. I understand FULLY the cost of the cam kit, the cost of the cam install and the ESTIMATED hp/tq gain. No matter how many times someone types something thinking I don't already know these things makes me laugh What I'm simply saying is that to me, I would feel better running good times with bolt ons only as opposed to skipping all that makes modding cars fun and slapping on a s/c to get the instant hp.

I'm not downing the s/c guys by far, I've considered the option...hence the topic of this thread. Just after thinking and seeing other peoples inputs, it has pushed me to the cams side. I do value everyone's input on this thread as it has helped me with my future decision. I'll be sure to keep you guys posted when the install is going to happen (before&after results).

~Cheryl

 

[lemosley01]

Have fun with it!

You can always put on nitrous!

 

[Quadcammer]

you may already know it(sorry for trying to help ) but if you go with big NA cams, say over .470 of lift, you would probably be better off getting some aftermarket valvesprings. I was getting some valve float with a .475 lift regrind.

i picked up some crowers for 600 with the steel retainers. so far they have been perfect.

are you gonna do the swap yourself?

 

[GR8WHITE]

Cams are the cheaper option. I've had both, and the SC is awesome power, but the cams and NA route is the path less traveled and more fun. My NA GT is quicker in the 1/8th and 1/4th than my old 97 SC'd cobra. Granted it won't turn the MPH my old Cobra would, but the lower ET wins the race. Also most of the milder cams will still work well with SC'd applications. MM&FF just did a comparo of all the Comp cams, even the wilder NA street cams were still decent for SC'd applications. Also in doing the cams first it still leaves you the room to do the sc later and have even larger gains than just SC alone. :beer:

 

[duane v]

Get the hair dryer for your stang...In your situation, even if you go with a wicked set of cams, you wouldnt even come close to recieving the full benefits from them. Reason's why is that your heads and intake are untouched..Also if you get a set of cams that will actually add some hp to your stock motor, you definately wont pass smog...Ive done quite a few cam swaps on 2V and 4V's, and the untouched motors dont nearly benefit as much as a motor that's had head and intake work performed to them...Also drivability is affected, the more duration the more drivability is affected...Basically a blower will get you an additional 140 rwhp and pass smog, cams with your motor set up will get you an additional 10 to 20 rwhp tops...IMO the descision is very clear...DA snake boy!!!

 

[duane v]

Just as a comparison in respect to a N/A track car versus a blower car..Most of your N/A guys that have stangs that run low 12's are under 3000 lbs, no back seat, no A/C, tubular k-member, full drag suspension, and just about every weight reduction mod in the book, and in the end all your stang is good for is going straight, trust me I know. With a blower Stang, I have seen numerous stangs with an S-trim blowing 10 lbs of boost (tuned), full interior, 4.10 gears, 31 spline axles, stock suspension and a set of 26x10.5x15 slicks hit mid to high 11's all day in SoCal...On the street a blower car will own a drag car radial to radial, well unless you drive around with 315x60x15 BFG DR's and skinnies like I do:-D...Basically if I had it to do all over again, I would have a hair dryer on my POS, and not having to worry about paying a crooked smog guy $300 to look the other way every other year...DA snake Boy!!

 

[GR8WHITE]

I'm gunning for 11's with my 2V untouched headed car. Yep it's got the K member, coil overs and A arms. Yep it sports a www.yellowmustangregistry.com rear seat delete kit. I mean who rides 4 people in their Stang anyway. Well 2 adults and 2 midgets in the back might fit. I still have all my factory accessories It is not a drag only setup though. Tokico 5 ways at all four corners is hardly a drag only suspension. The 4V heads flow close to 300 CFM untouched. Adding cams to them is not going to max them out. Hogging them out tends to KILL the bottom end. The 4.6's don't have tons of that to begin with.
The cams I have are off the shelf Comps and are a little on the big side. I still pass emissions. Passing the emissions with bigger cams in the OBD II cars should be easy provided the tuner is good. The SCT tune is the way to go on this route.

 

[SVT Chic]

Originally posted by GR8WHITE
Cams are the cheaper option. I've had both, and the SC is awesome power, but the cams and NA route is the path less traveled and more fun. My NA GT is quicker in the 1/8th and 1/4th than my old 97 SC'd cobra. Granted it won't turn the MPH my old Cobra would, but the lower ET wins the race. Also most of the milder cams will still work well with SC'd applications. MM&FF just did a comparo of all the Comp cams, even the wilder NA street cams were still decent for SC'd applications. Also in doing the cams first it still leaves you the room to do the sc later and have even larger gains than just SC alone. :beer:

:beer:

 

[duane v]

Originally posted by GR8WHITE
I'm gunning for 11's with my 2V untouched headed car. Yep it's got the K member, coil overs and A arms. Yep it sports a www.yellowmustangregistry.com rear seat delete kit. I mean who rides 4 people in their Stang anyway. Well 2 adults and 2 midgets in the back might fit. I still have all my factory accessories It is not a drag only setup though. Tokico 5 ways at all four corners is hardly a drag only suspension. The 4V heads flow close to 300 CFM untouched. Adding cams to them is not going to max them out. Hogging them out tends to KILL the bottom end. The 4.6's don't have tons of that to begin with.
The cams I have are off the shelf Comps and are a little on the big side. I still pass emissions. Passing the emissions with bigger cams in the OBD II cars should be easy provided the tuner is good. The SCT tune is the way to go on this route.

Do you have a video of your stang doing an 11 sec pass...I only know one guy that has an un-touched motored 2v that hits 11's actually 11.52 and his car weighs 2475 lbs and he makes 271 rwhp, basically his stang has a seat and a steering wheel...Im curious as to the hp and weight of your stang...EDIT* BTW 4v heads flow a max 230 to 238 cfm stock...a good port job will get you to 300 cfm...My heads now flow at 310 cfm at .550 valve lift...DA snake boy!!

 

[GR8WHITE]

Originally posted by duane v
Do you have a video of your stang doing an 11 sec pass...I only know one guy that has an un-touched motored 2v that hits 11's actually 11.52 and his car weighs 2475 lbs and he makes 271 rwhp, basically his stang has a seat and a steering wheel...Im curious as to the hp and weight of your stang...EDIT* BTW 4v heads flow a max 230 to 238 cfm stock...a good port job will get you to 300 cfm...My heads now flow at 310 cfm at .550 valve lift...DA snake boy!!

No vids of the 11's yet. As I said, it is my goal for now. My motor is not "untouched", the heads are. The motor would have been untouched but the piece of crap Will Laney that put my cams in timed them wrong and destroyed the motor. Spit 4 rod bearings out, bent all 16 valves, and the idiot just disappeared. So I had to go 20 over to clean the bores up and forged the internals while I was there. So no it isn't an "untouched motor", but it isn't a huge deal either. I'm probably putting a smidge over 300RWHP down. Should weigh in at around 3000 without driver. Car started out 3260 without driver. I'll post the dyno sheets when Dale at Custom Performance finishes the tune. Gotta swap the 19's out for some bigger/better injectors.

Ken Bjonees, John Edwards, Bill Putnam are all knocking down 11's easily without being a gutted 2400lb car. Ken and John are both putting down over 350 RWHP without bore or stroke added. I think Ken and John are gunning for 10's.

Sorry, was thinking the DOHC heads flowed around 260 untouched. Still 230 is better than most cnc'd SOHC heads. I can't see that much flow limiting the cams. I mean it isn't like we can go to the aftermarket for 2000 different head castings. We're just stuck with what Ford gave us for now.
:beer:

 

[duane v]

Its not the flow, its the ford crappy valve job that ****s everything up....And its even worse on a 2v head...DA snake boy!!

 

[GR8WHITE]

I dunno, about the 2V heads being vrappy. I've seen quite a few 700RWHP Stangs out of CobraKiller's stable. Only flowing about 250 CFM on those cars.

All I was saying is that too much flow tends to hurt the lower RPM power and torque. :beer: