Student Loans: Who's got em, and who thinks its a bubble

[OETKB]

Maybe times have changed, maybe region plays a part. I refer to mostly ChemE and ME and of course operations in petrochemical industry here.
State wide we have at least 12 schools.
We don’t value LSU over ULM or Nichols usually. I do see the point of the hiring manager looking for the same though.

I have been out of the field for five years and this could be true, which has also been during a boom economy.

I think when the economy is booming and employers are hiring in volume it can make a good deal less difference, but when the economy is more steady state, or even soft, and a hiring manager manages to get one or two specific reqs approved for his department, which for me was more often the case than not, they also get very selective.

One thing I failed to mention, if the employer has a specific need and they can't seem to fill it on their own and call in recruiter/s (me) for which they will pay $20k + or - then they tend to "want what they want" and can get pretty picky.

 

[Revvv]

Agreed also.
The shortage of skilled labor particularly welders in our area is amazing.
100k+ easily now and they dont work hard.
Hell, they don’t even grind or fit their own work anymore.


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That tempts a man to get a welding certification. I can weld, but most of my welding was sheet metal. I did a few heavier metals when customizing truck and car frames, but never anything on the scale of what you guys do.

Welding is a field that needs new people, but today's kids refuse to get their hands dirty.

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[Coiled03]

As someone who interviews and helps in the hiring process for a fortune 100 company I will say this, I/we don’t give a flying **** where your degree is from.

Sure you do. You can't tell me with a straight face that you would treat someone from a non-accredited school the same as one from an accredited school.

Couch it however you want, hiring managers DO care where prospective employees go to school. Because there IS a difference in the quality of education from one institution to another.

I completely agree with the notion that in today's world, nobody should be looking to go to a 4-year college off the bat. It makes no sense to take core classes at a school where the first two years are to weed out the poor students, i.e. they're practically trying to fail them out. But when it comes to where your degree is from, you'd better believe it matters.

 

[Zemedici]

I look at it like this.

There is NOTHING that stops an individual from learning new concepts, whether its college, self taught, private tutor, OJT, etc. As with anything there are pros and cons to every single approach.

I am 100% self taught in my entire professional career. From automotive performance to customer service to service writer to currently doing business analytics, all self taught. I have learned more by putting in the effort and time than I EVER would have learned from college. I dropped out before the water got too deep, as I was treading bad....I had 3 professors in one semester that would spend 1 lecture a week trashing the opposing political party....I'm paying you to teach me shit. I don't give a fat **** who you vote for. People get comfortable, and lose sight of 'their own lane' and how they need to stay the **** in it.

As @RDJ said, college is certainly not for everyone. And its completely up to the individual to assess the situation and make the correct decision for their future. Too often now does a situation not go the way the person intended, and someone else should take the blame. Not how it should go....personal accountability.....

 

[IronSnake]

Sure you do. You can't tell me with a straight face that you would treat someone from a non-accredited school the same as one from an accredited school.

Couch it however you want, hiring managers DO care where prospective employees go to school. Because there IS a difference in the quality of education from one institution to another.

I completely agree with the notion that in today's world, nobody should be looking to go to a 4-year college off the bat. It makes no sense to take core classes at a school where the first two years are to weed out the poor students, i.e. they're practically trying to fail them out. But when it comes to where your degree is from, you'd better believe it matters.

I didn't go to an Ivy league College, but I did go to a Top 10 non-Ivy league and have a Bachelors. It matters to me that it carries weight, because I know when someone starts playing the game of "Who's more educated", my Alma Mater carries enough weight to sink their ships.

College choice does matter, greatly. And in the context of hiring, it matters even more when comparing applicants. Joe has a degree from Clemson in engineering- Cool A+. Dave has a degree from Kansas state Technical institute of wichita- Yea no.

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

I look at it like this.

There is NOTHING that stops an individual from learning new concepts, whether its college, self taught, private tutor, OJT, etc. As with anything there are pros and cons to every single approach.

I am 100% self taught in my entire professional career. From automotive performance to customer service to service writer to currently doing business analytics, all self taught. I have learned more by putting in the effort and time than I EVER would have learned from college. I dropped out before the water got too deep, as I was treading bad....I had 3 professors in one semester that would spend 1 lecture a week trashing the opposing political party....I'm paying you to teach me shit. I don't give a fat **** who you vote for. People get comfortable, and lose sight of 'their own lane' and how they need to stay the **** in it.

As @RDJ said, college is certainly not for everyone. And its completely up to the individual to assess the situation and make the correct decision for their future. Too often now does a situation not go the way the person intended, and someone else should take the blame. Not how it should go....personal accountability.....

What were you studying in College?

 

[Zemedici]

What were you studying in College?

Started out as Industrial Design (wanted to design the body panels of cars, a la Chip Foose, started teaching myself CAD in High School)

Changed to Video Game Design (Specifically C# applications)

Then dropped out after that.

 

[Dusten]

I'm glad to see you changed your answer, but sadly there are many that think along these lines. I busted my ass in school, worked multiple jobs and came out debt free. I watch A LOT of 'kids' party their ass off, drive nice cars and lived in nice places--but they were in debt beyond imagination. I sincerely hope they are not rewarded for their lack of discipline by having their loans excused--which would mean I would have to pay for them through taxes. I'm tired of paying for those who made bad choices.



Was he out of state? I was fortunate enough to have grown up here so I paid in-state tuition at GT.



You and I went down similar paths. I started at a community college and lived at home through most of my core classes. I was fortunate enough to have parents that let me live at home rent free and paid for some of my food (at home meals). Living rent free was the biggest kicker. I understand I was very fortunate in this regard, and it was a tremendous help that allowed me to have zero debt out of college. At the same time, I know plenty of people that wanted to party and live on their own...so they refuted the offer from their parents to stay at home.

It also took me nearly 8 year to graduate with a BS degree. I had to alternate working full time and going to school--I still worked part-time during school, but it allowed me to avoid loans.



A lot of truth in this post!



I think it's also due to demand. More and more people are viewing college as a requirement vs an option. I don't think it's needed for everyone--especially those that pursue to worthless degree.



There are plenty of technical schools for those trades...



That story is hard to read...and I feel for her, but that doesn't sound like a very well thought out plan. How in the world do you rack-up $275k in college debt?

No shit. He specifically asked for schools that are good. A lot of for profit trade schools are sketchy

 

[STAMPEDE3]

Sure you do. You can't tell me with a straight face that you would treat someone from a non-accredited school the same as one from an accredited school.

Couch it however you want, hiring managers DO care where prospective employees go to school. Because there IS a difference in the quality of education from one institution to another.

I completely agree with the notion that in today's world, nobody should be looking to go to a 4-year college off the bat. It makes no sense to take core classes at a school where the first two years are to weed out the poor students, i.e. they're practically trying to fail them out. But when it comes to where your degree is from, you'd better believe it matters.

I never said non accredited I said smaller.
Giving an example,
No I don’t give a shit if the guy went to LSU vs ULM.
In most cases LSU grads are cocky think their shot don’t stink assholes.
Take it how you want but I am on the interview/hiring team and I’m telling you what we discuss often.
In most cases the smaller school grads came up from working families and have better work ethic.
And yes, I’ll say it with a straight face.
At least until we start drinking.


Edit: on the difference in quality. A lot of the smaller schools actually can better IMO
Schools like LSU have 300 kids in a class the smaller has 50. More 1 on 1,
More time to comprehend, etc...
If you keep the big school mentality on everything you sometimes miss out on a gem or diamond in the rough.


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[sleek98]

I have a masters, I was very fortunate that my parents paid my undergrad. It was to a smaller school that was instate. Cost about 4-5k a semester and I lived at home.

I paid cash for my masters as I went. Took me 4 years to get it while I was working full time.

My wife screwed around at a state school for a year, went to community college for a couple years then transferred to a private nursing school. She paid for some as she went, got ALOT or scholarships at the private school and still ended up with 21k in loans. We ended up paying her loans off in 15 months I think. We lived in a shitty duplex and threw literally every dollar at it until it was gone.

The problem I see is people think it’s normal to just keep paying the minimum or using the income based plan until they die. Our old neighbors both were teachers with 200ish college hours each. From conversations they both have over 100k each. Both said they will die with the loans.

 

[velocicaur]

It's something that plagues the health professions as a whole. It's extremely noticeable in Veterinary because the salaries are not comparable to similar professions.

Here's a breakdown from the school itself: https://finaid.msu.edu/read/budcvm19.pdf?t=1533834090

That number is on top of any undergraduate loans. Obviously, going to veterinary school is a financial nightmare unless you come from a very well off family. It was/is the "cost" of becoming a veterinarian. It really is an unfortunate situation for any veterinarian that has graduated in the last ~8 years and going forward.

She spent her summers at a vet clinic which she really enjoyed. It's much different now that she has real responsibilities rather than being a side kick. She really likes the medicine part but the social aspect is a bit of a struggle.

 

[CompOrange04GT]

Not a chance. Education is not something I encourage anyone to gamble with. College is not negotiable for either of my children.

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Just an honest question... Why?

Is it honest to God just a " So they can have a paper "?

Or are they going to be a doctor/accountant/ that sort of thing that requires a degree? With so many jobs that pay over 6 figures without a degree, not sure why the push to be forced to get one

 

[CompOrange04GT]

Agreed also.
The shortage of skilled labor particularly welders in our area is amazing.
100k+ easily now and they dont work hard.
Hell, they don’t even grind or fit their own work anymore.


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Yup plenty of welders out here charging 800-1000 a day to pipeline weld

 

[jeffh81]

This time next year i will be finishing school of the Good Lord is willing and the creek dont rise. Then I get to see the equivalent of a NEW truck note going to the government.

 

[JpL4K3]

You were all sold one big fat expensive lie.

 

[nickf2005]

Just an honest question... Why?

Is it honest to God just a " So they can have a paper "?

Or are they going to be a doctor/accountant/ that sort of thing that requires a degree? With so many jobs that pay over 6 figures without a degree, not sure why the push to be forced to get one

I'm a little shocked to see this from Revv as well. College is not for all... gifted or not. The option should be theirs.

We're in a situation where we want to build jobs and bring all this Manufacturing back to the States, but guess what... there's not enough people to work the jobs we want to create. We've ingrained the heads of our youth that you can't amount to anything if you don't go to college. Bull. Learn to program and maintain a robot in 2 years time and I bet you'll be employed for life.

My wife went to a private school (her parents ponied up about half I think?). $40,000 a year for PharmD that pays well. Kids going to the same school for Journalism, Elementary Ed, etc. Not saying those are not valid careers, but do the math! How are you ever supposed to pay $160,000 back making $40,000?

My personal path was a State school for automation. Got a 5 session Co Op with a company that paid a great deal of tuition and a good hourly rate. Graduated with 20-25k I think? Still with that company too.

2010 and we're sitting on just shy of $100k in loans. No sweat, the wife's investment paid off and landed in Retail Pharmacy. 2ish years later, bye bye Sallie Mae. Minimum payments was not even a thought.

If kids just knew how to do a simple ROI calculation and their parents wouldn't throw them under a bus, we wouldn't have this problem.

We're funding a 529 for my 3 year old. It's there if he'll need it, but secretly I hope he doesn't and I can cash the puppy in for a toy. I'm sure the government would live the back taxes on it too.

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[CompOrange04GT]

I'm a little shocked to see this from Revv as well. College is not for all... gifted or not. The option should be theirs.

We're in a situation where we want to build jobs and bring all this Manufacturing back to the States, but guess what... there's not enough people to work the jobs we want to create. We've ingrained the heads of our youth that you can't amount to anything if you don't go to college. Bull. Learn to program and maintain a robot in 2 years time and I bet you'll be employed for life.

My wife went to a private school (her parents ponied up about half I think?). $40,000 a year for PharmD that pays well. Kids going to the same school for Journalism, Elementary Ed, etc. Not saying those are not valid careers, but do the math! How are you ever supposed to pay $160,000 back making $40,000?

My personal path was a State school for automation. Got a 5 session Co Op with a company that paid a great deal of tuition and a good hourly rate. Graduated with 20-25k I think? Still with that company too.

2010 and we're sitting on just shy of $100k in loans. No sweat, the wife's investment paid off and landed in Retail Pharmacy. 2ish years later, bye bye Sallie Mae. Minimum payments was not even a thought.

If kids just knew how to do a simple ROI calculation and their parents wouldn't throw them under a bus, we wouldn't have this problem.

We're funding a 529 for my 3 year old. It's there if he'll need it, but secretly I hope he doesn't and I can cash the puppy in for a toy. I'm sure the government would live the back taxes on it too.

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It's insane. The amount of jobs. I go on indeed a lot, just to look.. As of right now in my small town of Less than 40k people... there are 73 jobs open right now on Indeed.

Many are very good paying jobs.

Hell my GF with ZERO experience in the field shes in now. Landed a job making more money than many people with degrees ( she doesnt have one)... What is she doing right now?

Oh just sitting at the bar with clients. That was after an hour of sitting at starbucks on her company provided brand new Mac Book.. that she drove in her company provided brand new Explorer. Hell I even get jealous sometimes haha.

What you said though here " We've ingrained the heads of our youth that you can't amount to anything if you don't go to college. "

I can barely remember the last time I saw someone in their 20s working in my field of work. I'm 31, and 99.9% of the time, I'm the youngest person in the room at a meeting. I get it.. not everybody wants to work 60-70 hours a week, and/or deal with snow.. or 130 degree temps. But they want to make $100k with absolutely zero life experience or work experience

 

[4GTNSVT]

I paid my loans off 5 years early (they were 10 year loans). I went to community college for a few years and took classes that would transfer. I graduated with a Bachelors in Engineering for a local but well known university. I applied for every scholarship I could. I also worked all thru school and lived at home. I think my total loans were like 25K in 2011. I have a buddy who got the same degree from the same university but graduated 2 years after me and he was close to 80K in loans. I have a few friends with over 100K in loans and still haven't finished. So I guess I was one of the lucky ones. I think student loans are one of the few things even in bankruptcy that are not forgiven so I wouldn't bank on loan forgiveness.

 

[ViciousJay]

THe next bubble pop will be student loans and I've been saying this for years. Education is crap these days.

 

[bglf83]

Nothing to pop, they will just stop loaning money.

Like was posted above, there is no escaping student loan debt.

Maybe limit student loans to school books, classes, lunch rooms and dorms. That would make a huge difference. All the crazy loan people I know did not work during school so they lived for years on loans. Also take away the pay by income crap and force a payoff period.

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