Shorty header options

Totalpkg

Totalpkg

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I know long tubes are better so I dont need those opinions. I have emission testing where I'm at so its a 2011 GT500. I am upgrading to a 2013 OEM H pipe.

These are my options:

- FRPP discontinued shorties - hard to install.

- JBA shorties - anyone with anyexperience with these?

- oem headers, port and polished and ceramic coated - anyone ever try this? I have access to tools and hoist so no issues with installing or paying to get this done. I also have a hook for ceramic coating.

Any opinions on shorty options is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
1 Alibi 2

1 Alibi 2

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Totalpkg said:
I know long tubes are better so I dont need those opinions. I have emission testing where I'm at so its a 2011 GT500. I am upgrading to a 2013 OEM H pipe.

These are my options:

- FRPP discontinued shorties - hard to install.

- JBA shorties - anyone with anyexperience with these?

- oem headers, port and polished and ceramic coated - anyone ever try this? I have access to tools and hoist so no issues with installing or paying to get this done. I also have a hook for ceramic coating.

Any opinions on shorty options is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Click to expand...
.
New Jersey is an inspection state, doesn't use a tailpipe sniffer, but plugs into the OBDII port to verify everything is enabled. I ran Kooks 1 3/4" LT's with their " green " catted X pipe, & had no issues passing inspection with my 2011.
( not sure if this helps you or not )
As mentioned elsewhere, shorty headers are a waste of time & money..
 
Willie

Willie

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1 Alibi 2 said:
....As mentioned elsewhere, shorty headers are a waste of time & money..
Click to expand...

To each his own....

I probably own the last pair left on Planet Earth, new FRPP shorties with original instructions in the original box. I've owned them for quite some time, not knowing what I should do with them..... until now. I decided to modify them for my needs.

The measured outlet on the stock manifolds is 2-inches. On the shorties, they measure 2-1/8 inches, negligible difference. I have a full 3-inch system bolted to my stock manifolds, but it's always bothered me knowing this bottleneck exists. Replacing the stock manifolds with the shorties does not resolve this issue, so I modified the shorties, removed the restrictive outlet and replaced it with a 3-inch ball flange.

My other reason for using the shorties is because my motor is lowered 3/4-inch AND my car is lowered also. Prior to the install, I had only 1-7/8 inch ground clearance at the lowest point, the cats. LT's would be very difficult, if not impossible to modify, to gain ground clearance back that I lost when lowering the motor.

The driver's header was notched to clear the steering shaft and the passenger's was "modified" to clear the frame rail. With this setup, I now have 3-1/4 inch ground clearance, or an additional 1-3/8 inches. I'm happy with just this.

Performance gains, including loss of any boost, remains to be tested..... If I see any gains, that's just a bonus.... So in my case, LT's were not an option, but these shorties give me a full 3-inch system with 1-7/8" primaries with NO bottlenecks.

To each his own....
 
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RedVenom48

RedVenom48

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Ive seen these unicorn shorty headers. Will be interested to see with the mods Willie's planning to do to them how the car responds.

Shame that Ford stopped producing these. Would have been a great asset to guys living behind enemy lines (CARB EO certified).
 
Willie

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And with Rosa moving in (it's already started to rain here), it's gonna be a while!

LT48, be safe up there. Your forecast calls for a LOT more rain than here...

Willie
 
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Harry08

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I have done all 3 options. I had the stock Eaton ported and pullied with long tubes. Switched to a KB 2.8 and followed KB's recommendations about long tubes and put the stock manifolds back on. I thought about having the manifolds port matched and extrude honed but just had them ceramic coated. I found a new set of Ford Racing ceramic shorty headers on ebay and put them on a couple of months ago. They are a challenge to install but the sound and looks are worth it along with being emission compliant. There motor buzzes up faster than the manifolds. I know that there is no HP gain but I am very satisfied with them.
I have often wondered if under the same identical testing is there really no gains with shortys? When longtubes are installed there is a tune involved and usaully a dyno pull. Has anyone ever run a baseline, installed shortys,, tune and then dyno pull to see if there is truly no gain? If anything it would be interesting.
 
Willie

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Harry08 said:
....When longtubes are installed there is a tune involved and usaully a dyno pull. Has anyone ever run a baseline, installed shortys,, tune and then dyno pull to see if there is truly no gain? If anything it would be interesting.
Click to expand...

The items that should be changed in the tune for LT's are:
1) O2 transport delay time,
2) Time delay for closed loop,
3) Temp for front HEGO to go closed loop, &
4) Front O2 heater duty cycle.

NONE OF THESE CHANGES AFFECT PERFORMANCE. That is why many professional tuners (I know of several that won't be named that do not even take the time to make the above changes). Disgusting, IMHO....

All four above should be changed because the distance from the combustion chamber to the O2 sensors are increased with LT's, nothing more. So with shorties, the relative location of the sensors do not change, therefore, no tune changes are needed.

I really think performance gains are hindered because of the outlet diameter. This is why I modified mine. Original opening is 2-1/8" >>

_2.IMG_20180918_143606.jpg


Removed the cone of shame which opened it up to 3" >>

_2.IMG_20180918_143443.jpg


Welded on 3" in/out ball flange >>

_2.IMG_20180925_130323.jpg
 
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RedVenom48

RedVenom48

Let's go Brandon!
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Harry08 said:
I have done all 3 options. I had the stock Eaton ported and pullied with long tubes. Switched to a KB 2.8 and followed KB's recommendations about long tubes and put the stock manifolds back on. I thought about having the manifolds port matched and extrude honed but just had them ceramic coated. I found a new set of Ford Racing ceramic shorty headers on ebay and put them on a couple of months ago. They are a challenge to install but the sound and looks are worth it along with being emission compliant. There motor buzzes up faster than the manifolds. I know that there is no HP gain but I am very satisfied with them.
I have often wondered if under the same identical testing is there really no gains with shortys? When longtubes are installed there is a tune involved and usaully a dyno pull. Has anyone ever run a baseline, installed shortys,, tune and then dyno pull to see if there is truly no gain? If anything it would be interesting.
Click to expand...
Harry, did KB recommend to you NOT to run long tubes with their 2.8? Were you using an offroad midpipe or the factory catted midpipe?

@Willie Apparently we had already doubled the daily record rainfall total by 8am. Definitely going to be a wet one. Im just hoping the forecasted thunderstorms hit after I get home form work lol
 
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Harry08

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KB does not recommend LT's with any of their superchargers. I talked at length with them about this plus I have emission testing here in Lake County Indiana so I pulled the LT's. KB has a great write up on their website about LT's and their own dyno results. I believe the article is on their tech page.
 
RedVenom48

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I don't discount your conversations with KB at all. Though its super interesting that they would NOT recommend headers, especially on their
big boy superchargers.

This is absolutely speculation on my part, but perhaps they are erring on the side of caution with regard to federal emissions laws. Absolutely with CA laws as they are CA based.

I know in AZ we can do whatever the hell we want as long as all of our readiness monitors are complete pass. Of course, you look at all the teams running KB superchargers and they are all high HP builds with headers, intakes, cams etc. So there are obvious benefits with long tubes, but interesting none the less about KB's stance.
 

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