ripping my hair out!!! wot afr help!!!

[ctgreddy]

***EDIT*** Please skip to post 8 for my current problem!

I've been trying to dial in my wot afr using sct prp. Around town I could only find a place safe enough to do 3rd gear pulls, so that's what I did and got it in the 11.3-11.6 area which I'm happy with. So I figured my car was good. A little bit after that I raced a buddy and noticed in 2nd/3rd the afr is were it should be, but in 4th it goes rich, like low 10's rich.

Fast forward to today, I finally got around to getting on the highway later in the day with no traffic, so did some 4th gear logs. It's rich past about 5k rpms, like low 10's like I thought. So since it seems everyone dyno's/tunes the cars in 4th I figured I'd try dialing it all in again using 4th gear logs. I got it close and figured I'd try and do a 3rd gear pull, well wouldn't you know it anything in 2nd/3rd is lean now, right around 12.4 from what I saw before I let out.

So wtf am I doing wrong? One thing i've noticed and have wondered about is that my load seems really high. when I start a pull it goes to 2.0, and as it gets past 5k it starts to slowly decline and at 6500 it's around 1.8. I thought these cars are usually in the 1.5-1.6 load area? Also the timing is the same no matter what gear I pull in, boost looks to be the same also. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[ctgreddy]

well I tried a few things today. I put in new o2 sensors, cleaned my maf, and switched from my no-name 55lb injectors down to some frpp 47's that my buddy just took off his car a few days ago. I had to totally re-dial in my maf table, after a few hours tweaking it I got it normal again, did some wot pulls and got the wot table close.

Now the load is where I figured it would be, 1.4 during wot. However I'm still having the same issue. afr's are good in 2nd/3rd gear pulls but when in 4th at around 5600 afr's start richening and by the time it's at 6k I'm at 10.2 and it stays there. Anyone have ideas?

 

[watman02]

What happens to rail pressure in 4th gear runs? Is load the same as 2nd and 3rd runs? Iat's?

 

[ctgreddy]

Yes every things identical from what I can see. I haven't checked rail pressure, but load, boost, and timing are the same. Iat2's get 4 degrees hotter but that's it. And the maf counts are the same range in 3rd or 4th so I can't tweak the maf curve for 4th without leaning out 3rd.

 

[y2k2gt]

You have to load the correct values for the injectors your running.
Seems like you are going about it wrong.
How much boost are you running?

 

[ctgreddy]

You have to load the correct values for the injectors your running.
Seems like you are going about it wrong.
How much boost are you running?

Yes I loaded the frpp values for the injectors. Not sure why everything was so far off unless my no-name 55's were screwed up when I originally dialed in the maf.

Boost is 16psi then tapers to 15, in both third and 4th pulls.

 

[Don 95Vert]

If you swapped injectors and the tune has been scaled to get under the airflow limit of the MAF curve, you need to (in this order exactly): return injector slopes and breakpoint to stock, return manifold volume to stock, return MAF curve to stock and return the engine displacement to stock. Then reload the new injector file, then the MAF values- and if you have a MAF extender then change the tune for that. Then tune away. If you use the BP modifier method for avoiding the airflow limit, then you should be OK - but keep in mind some MAF values will automatically scale things.

 

[ctgreddy]

If you swapped injectors and the tune has been scaled to get under the airflow limit of the MAF curve, you need to (in this order exactly): return injector slopes and breakpoint to stock, return manifold volume to stock, return MAF curve to stock and return the engine displacement to stock. Then reload the new injector file, then the MAF values- and if you have a MAF extender then change the tune for that. Then tune away. If you use the BP modifier method for avoiding the airflow limit, then you should be OK - but keep in mind some MAF values will automatically scale things.

That's what I was thinking about was just starting from scratch again. I thought something was a little "off" when I originally did my first tune as the maf was way off, and I have a stock maf in a stock housing with a mafia, so I figured it would be close right out of the gate but I was wrong. Shoulda been a red flag there I was starting off with something not quite right.

 

[ctgreddy]

Ok Now I'm just starting to get super irritated. I have a stock maf with a mafia. siemends 60# injectors and the rest of the mods in my sig.

My current problem is that I tried starting over from scratch with a base YDH0 file. The only things I did was turn off adaptive learning, set my base fuel table to 1.0 lambda to try and get the maf table setup easier, loaded the injector files, and edited the high/low slops and displacement for my mafia. When loaded in the car it's dead rich everywhere, like 10.0, at idle, and when doing unloaded revs. I usually try and get unloaded revs setup first then move onto actually driving the car. But Nothing I did changed the afr's. I multiplied my maf table by .7 and no change, did it again, still no change. wtf am I doing wrong?

With my understanding and having a stock maf in a stock housing, with just a stock tune modified for injectors and mafia shouldn't I be a bit closer then this? At this point I'm not sure if I want to try buying a new maf and seeing if anything changes or what. I dont want to keep trying to make huge changes because at this point I think I'm just trying to cover a problem and that's not what I want to do.

 

[01yellercobra]

What about starting from scratch without the MAFia?

FWIW I had to make big changes when I went to the 80lb injectors and then the slot style MAF. The first time around with the 80's it took me removing 20% fuel just to get it started. And it still took work to get it dialed in.

 

[ctgreddy]

Tried no mafia and no change. I thought maybe that was taking a dump but no difference.

So far I've taken 30% out twice and it still idles at 10.0:1. That's what makes me think something isn't right.

 

[Don 95Vert]

Did you also adjust the breakpoint for the MAF.ia? Is the MAF plugged in all the way? It almost sounds like you are running off the failed MAF table where the MAF is not hooked up. Email me the file and I will look it over before you get to the driving the car off a cliff stage with it...

Don

 

[cj428mach]

Tried no mafia and no change. I thought maybe that was taking a dump but no difference.

So far I've taken 30% out twice and it still idles at 10.0:1. That's what makes me think something isn't right.

What wideband are you running? My innovate is a pain in the rear sometimes and will get out of calibration, when it does it just flashes 10.0 sometimes it'll jump straight to 15.9 then back to 10.0. I don't know why but it usually gets screwed up when I'm flashing the car or I leave the ignition on for a few minutes then start the car. I usually load my tunes on at the end of the night then go datalog the next day after work. Yesterday I hopped in the car, loaded livelink, and setup a new datalog configuration. Then I proceeded to start the car, the wideband just stayed on 10.0, a quick blip of the throttle got it to jump straight to 15.9 then back to 10.0. A quick free air calibration brought it back to normal. Its very very frustrating.

Did you also adjust the breakpoint for the MAF.ia? Is the MAF plugged in all the way? It almost sounds like you are running off the failed MAF table where the MAF is not hooked up. Email me the file and I will look it over before you get to the driving the car off a cliff stage with it...

Don

This is why I'm glad I bought the PRP from you.

 

[ctgreddy]

Did you also adjust the breakpoint for the MAF.ia? Is the MAF plugged in all the way? It almost sounds like you are running off the failed MAF table where the MAF is not hooked up. Email me the file and I will look it over before you get to the driving the car off a cliff stage with it...

Don

I did not adjust the break point, I was under the impression I had to only adjust high/low slope and displacement. Thanks for the offer! what's your email and I'll send it right over.

 

[ctgreddy]

What wideband are you running? My innovate is a pain in the rear sometimes and will get out of calibration, when it does it just flashes 10.0 sometimes it'll jump straight to 15.9 then back to 10.0. I don't know why but it usually gets screwed up when I'm flashing the car or I leave the ignition on for a few minutes then start the car. I usually load my tunes on at the end of the night then go datalog the next day after work. Yesterday I hopped in the car, loaded livelink, and setup a new datalog configuration. Then I proceeded to start the car, the wideband just stayed on 10.0, a quick blip of the throttle got it to jump straight to 15.9 then back to 10.0. A quick free air calibration brought it back to normal. Its very very frustrating..

I have aem, I thought it was my sensor so I actually bought a brand new one and still have the same readings.

 

[ctgreddy]

Ok I tried a few things tonight and started from scratch again and for some reason I got everything to work pretty well now! My only issue now is it's still slightly richer at the top of 4th then it is thru the rest of the pull.

I have a question about it, for instance in 4th my afr's start to go rich when the maf counts get in the 940 area. My table only has 91x and 980 count rows, can I change the 980 to 940 and dial it in better or will that not make a difference?

 

[04sleeper]

What "Value File" are you running for the injectors? Try the "Old 60's" value file and I bet your problems will go away.....

Remember, Load Injectors first, then make the adjustments for the MAFIa second.

Also, raise your MAX MAF AD Counts to 1023 to give you more room.

 

[ctgreddy]

What "Value File" are you running for the injectors? Try the "Old 60's" value file and I bet your problems will go away.....

Remember, Load Injectors first, then make the adjustments for the MAFIa second.

Also, raise your MAX MAF AD Counts to 1023 to give you more room.

That's what I tried this past time, I used the older generic 60's values and it was much better. And yes I did change the max counts to 1023.