03DSG
New Member
Does anybody know the legality (emissions/C.A.R.B) of just swapping pulleys, no computer reflash or chip, just a pulley swap.
Thanks!
Thanks!
pulley swap....emission/C.A.R.B legal?
- Thread starter 03DSG
- Start date
Good question. I would think the answer is that they are not C.A.R.B. approved and are meant for racing purposes. I checked a couple of the pulley websites but there is no reference whatsoever to this. Anyone? Doug?
I would have to guess no, but I would not do a pulley swap without a chip/tune.
Short answer: not legal unless it has an E/O number. Long answer see below.
I'm speaking from experience in California only with my '92 supercharged LX. (BTW you don't EVER want to get to a point where you tangle with the CARB boneheads, especially with a car like a modded '03 Cobra). Contrary to what you might think they know absolutely nothing about automotive operation let alone performance cars. They look up numbers in books and make a ruling based what's in print. I'll explain more below.
Strictly speaking, the manufacturer has to apply for a CARB E/O (Executive Order) exemption number for any aftermarket part that could affect emissions. Examples: the K&N FIPK has a CARB number, supercharger kits, after market heads, cams, headers, cat backs all must have CARB numbers to be smog legal. Note, any high flow catted H or X pipe probably will not have a CARB number and therefore will not be smog legal because you are not allowed to change your cats before 50,000 miles unless they fail and then I believe they've got to be factory replacements.
Now for the explanation. If you add parts that cause you to fail the sniffer/dyno test you're SOL. They send you to a smog referee. Good luck with this guy. You will have to put things back in factory condition to get the emission test to pass. There's no limit on the number of trips you can make to the referee in order to pass. Once you get sent to a referee you cannot go back to a plain old smog check location. You're a marked man.
The CARB inspector (at the Smog check station) also will give your engine compartment a visual check. If he finds something that doesn't match factory arrangement (i. e., you have a K&N FIPK) he will look for a nameplate or sticker that shows the CARB E/O number. Then he goes to his trusty manual of aftermarket parts that is published by the CARB and looks up the number. If the manufacturer and part match up you're good to go. If not you've got an appointment with the referee.
Practically speaking, the visual inspection can only go so far. For example, I had a non-smog legal cam in my '92 LX. It was mild enough for me to pass the sniffer/dyno test. Take it form me, the inspector doesn't even know what a cam is let alone where it is located. So I was cool on that one. Not so with my supercharger. It had a CARB E/O number but the inspector thought it was a TURBO. He couldn't find the manufacturer in his manual so he was going to fail me. I had to explain that it was a supercharger and we both went to the right section of the manual and found the right information.
As far as a pulley goes, I would say that the effect will not show up on the sniffer/dyno because of the speeds they test at (below 2500 RPM). At that speed you're not making boost so you not dumping extra fuel in that would make your HC level rise. There's always the remote chance that the inspector would notice the pulley and look for the CARB number stamped on it. If you put the belt guard back on, problem solved. In the case of the cats, as long as you pass the emissions test, who is going to get under the car to check if there's an E/O number. Usually not a problem either.
But you need to understand when you mod in California the burden is on you to prove that you're legal if one of these guys ever fails you.
You decide,
bones
I'm speaking from experience in California only with my '92 supercharged LX. (BTW you don't EVER want to get to a point where you tangle with the CARB boneheads, especially with a car like a modded '03 Cobra). Contrary to what you might think they know absolutely nothing about automotive operation let alone performance cars. They look up numbers in books and make a ruling based what's in print. I'll explain more below.
Strictly speaking, the manufacturer has to apply for a CARB E/O (Executive Order) exemption number for any aftermarket part that could affect emissions. Examples: the K&N FIPK has a CARB number, supercharger kits, after market heads, cams, headers, cat backs all must have CARB numbers to be smog legal. Note, any high flow catted H or X pipe probably will not have a CARB number and therefore will not be smog legal because you are not allowed to change your cats before 50,000 miles unless they fail and then I believe they've got to be factory replacements.
Now for the explanation. If you add parts that cause you to fail the sniffer/dyno test you're SOL. They send you to a smog referee. Good luck with this guy. You will have to put things back in factory condition to get the emission test to pass. There's no limit on the number of trips you can make to the referee in order to pass. Once you get sent to a referee you cannot go back to a plain old smog check location. You're a marked man.
The CARB inspector (at the Smog check station) also will give your engine compartment a visual check. If he finds something that doesn't match factory arrangement (i. e., you have a K&N FIPK) he will look for a nameplate or sticker that shows the CARB E/O number. Then he goes to his trusty manual of aftermarket parts that is published by the CARB and looks up the number. If the manufacturer and part match up you're good to go. If not you've got an appointment with the referee.
Practically speaking, the visual inspection can only go so far. For example, I had a non-smog legal cam in my '92 LX. It was mild enough for me to pass the sniffer/dyno test. Take it form me, the inspector doesn't even know what a cam is let alone where it is located. So I was cool on that one. Not so with my supercharger. It had a CARB E/O number but the inspector thought it was a TURBO. He couldn't find the manufacturer in his manual so he was going to fail me. I had to explain that it was a supercharger and we both went to the right section of the manual and found the right information.
As far as a pulley goes, I would say that the effect will not show up on the sniffer/dyno because of the speeds they test at (below 2500 RPM). At that speed you're not making boost so you not dumping extra fuel in that would make your HC level rise. There's always the remote chance that the inspector would notice the pulley and look for the CARB number stamped on it. If you put the belt guard back on, problem solved. In the case of the cats, as long as you pass the emissions test, who is going to get under the car to check if there's an E/O number. Usually not a problem either.
But you need to understand when you mod in California the burden is on you to prove that you're legal if one of these guys ever fails you.
You decide,
bones
I think that a cobra with a smaller pulley will pass. I dont think that the smog nazi will look at that if it got the pulley cover on, but if you got a chip make sure you take it off just to make sure. A chip maybe the only reason why you wont pass the sniffer test.
i think your best bet is talk to your tuner or one of the local speed shops and find out where they take their cars and go there
03DSG
New Member
thanks everyone! I found this web site:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/aftermkt.htm#additional
there is not a section for supercharger pulleys, the closest thing was underdrive pulleys... thats why I was asking here I thought some of the people from AR, SFPH or billetflow could shed some light on whether pulleys are "not for sale or use on public roads" that rule isnt just for California right?
What about other things that are not listed on there site that could change emissions: cooler radiators, heat exchangers, spark plugs. all of these things can make the car run leaner and therefore change the emissions????
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/aftermkt.htm#additional
there is not a section for supercharger pulleys, the closest thing was underdrive pulleys... thats why I was asking here I thought some of the people from AR, SFPH or billetflow could shed some light on whether pulleys are "not for sale or use on public roads" that rule isnt just for California right?
What about other things that are not listed on there site that could change emissions: cooler radiators, heat exchangers, spark plugs. all of these things can make the car run leaner and therefore change the emissions????
Wouldn't mods coupled with a good, safe tune easily pass an emissions test anyway. Maybe an older engine would have some trouble, but these motors really shouldn't have any problems passings emissions tests at all. I remember when my '94 Z-28 was sent to Callaway for a engine swap the new motor (450hp) got better emissions scores than the stock motor.
03DSG
New Member
thanks for the info doug!
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