Pros and Cons (Long tube headers)

[brad65ford]

Wait a minute the 98 and down 4v use the egr tube? Yes the older Mac header for the 98 and down 4v can be used but the egr needs to be closed off. tmhutch, I totaly agree with ya, the headers should flow unbelievably so I've been told. Their on there why so I'll let ya know.:beer:

 

[SlvrSnke01]

Brad,


Did you recieve your LT's yet from Jet-Hot? Have you heard anything about delivery? I also got in on the Hooker group purchase w/ matching off-road X.

I think you are running the FR-500 as well, correct? I can't wait to get these on the car with some dyno #'s. Who is doing your install? I was going to try myself to save the labor but I have little space and time.

Bill

 

[brad65ford]

My long tubes from Jet hot coating should come in Monday or Tuesday. I've got a local Mustang nut in are area. He has done 3 cobra's so far and the price is 500. I've tried to speak with them all and only spoke with one guy on the phone which he stated he love it, and he has motor problems 01 ring blow-bye, he had this before. He still say its fast a hell. Great idea on the Hooker, if I were to have done it again I'd do Hooker myself. But why the X pipe why not a h pipe? I don't like the sound of my bassini x, but I've heard from alot of people that the bassini's are quiet. And are you stating that you also have a FR500 cat back system. When I bought the catback I knew I was going to replace the x-pipe, in my head its like the exhaust is coming together one to many time (like a double negative).. Also I like low end torque. The x-pipe has been tested better high rpm hp then low end torque were the h-pipe built more hp down low.

Also the guy installing the l/t states that all the longtube installs he's done makes the cars run leaner? Well,, we'll see. I hope I have no driveablity problems. There always seem a trade-off.

Now I'm screwing with replacing the stock t/b. It seem to run better but I'm not sure about the proformance (most hp or driveablity - stock/vs aftermarket). Boy... If we only had a dyno in each of our homes. I'll keep ya posted on both.

:beer: :coolman:



O- I forgot to ask all of ya. Do you runners switch at 3,500 rpm and the car starts pull hard till 6300? Do you feel the switch of these tumble design verses the flapper valve on the 96-98 4v's.

 

[SlvrSnke01]

I went with the X-pipe becuase it was included in the Hooker group purchase. Your right about the exhaust coming together two times now as opposed to one with the FR-500. We will just have to see wait until the dyno answers the call.

I am also worried about what the off-road pipe is going to do for torque, the car right now puts down 301 ft-lbs with just the Fr-500. I think I may gain with the LT's but lose with off-road, up top above 5K this car is going to scream.

Do you live in the Jersey area? Any plans of going to the Ford show at Englishtown in October?

 

[brad65ford]

Yes I live in Jersey. I went to Ford Nationals this year at Cariliel. I was think about the English Town with some friends.:rolling:

 

[calwyglfer]

I received my Hookers from Jet hot about 2 days ago. You can also use you Bassani x-pipe w/cats you just need to cut it down and weld in a flange to make it fit.

 

[viperbluelx]

Do not use MAC longtubes on your Cobra, they are known for causing oil consumption problems. Do a search on the Corral for more info.

 

[brad65ford]

? Not to sure about that.

The oil problem is a problem most likely before the Long Tubes installs. As I do know someone that had the oil problem before the Long Tube install... If ya have a link I (we'd) love to read it.

 

[viperbluelx]

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=167953

 

[brad65ford]

Thanks viperbluelx, I love more info. I wrote to them and posted our link.. Thanks again.:beer:

 

[brad65ford]

Its seems as tho the answers are, don't do it. No one whats to talk about it. Even the people that have the problem. O- fu*ken well.... Alot more cons tho.:cuss: Anyone what to buy a Mac l/t with Jot-hot coating and matching catted-h pipe if ya willing to rist it, cheap.:kaboom:

 

[raider187]

Originally posted by brad65ford
SVTNICK, I thank you for the info, but I order the mac with catted h this week. yeah i got to lift the motor! Fun right! About the oxygen sensors, I've heard that since they are going to be farther away (down stream) the car runs leaner. Ok with me, my car run rich right now. I'll let ya know if it pings.

What did you pay for them, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[brad65ford]

Not at all, we're all here for something, right? I payed 300 each and 275 for coating which looks amazing. I see in the other form that you too are looking to get rid of the Headers. I believe there is a answer. I don't believe in the greater flow theory, no way. The BBK's,Hooker's,JDM all have long tube great flow charactericts. The only thing that might be different would be the EGR (location and pressure low or high) and the coating. The other companys with long/tubes should flow the same nor no better. Its amazing that know one has compared the two BBK/Mac side by side and or a flow test them. Hopefully are monthly bibles that coming in the mail will answer some questions. I've been on all the boards and spoke with alot of people about this with no luck on the Mac l/t's. Just screwing around with little success IMO. I bought mine for the sound and the the extra power when s/c'ing. I believe with enough people that have the problem (which it seems as tho there is) the answers are around the bend. Like that tv show say's "the true is out there" :smmon:

 

[raider187]

My pipes have atleast 100 miles on them, and their in pretty ggod shape, can the still be jet-hot coated? I also received some special fastners to go on them, did you buy those also?

The big reason that I want to get rid of them is.

1. They're not coated already, don't know if they can be?
2. I have heard they're a mother to install and was hoping for an easier way out if possible.


I guess JetHot will do used parts also, just went to their web site... The Mounting Hardware is from ARP. Hmm, sell or not to sell? :dw: I have a Dense Charger too, I was thinking about selling iit all on eBay.

 

[brad65ford]

Not so sure about sell them. I just got off the phone with my Ford guy (he really knows his sh*t). He believe the problem is that they flow to well, the flow theory. Well, I now doubting myself and others about the slag theory. It make sence, the headers are starving the EGR. Which causes the wrong pressure intake and to much blow bye and then the ring get carbon build up. The answer I my eye's is SUPER CHARGER!!!!! The stock headers work the best for a N/A car, when you S/C it ya need to uncork the motor. Yes, now it make sense about scavaging the air out of the cylinders when the both valves are open, damn this header flow!! I cann't wait to put a blower on with these header. Hopefully 450 rwhp and low 4's in torque. January Kenne Bell will have their screw roots style out for the 99-01's cobra's 4200 they state.:beer:

raider187, Jot Hot is the best coating company out there! The coating is alot better than BBK's chrome. It can withstand much high temps which keeps the heat in the tubes and smoother for better flow. Best of luck in this aftermarket of unknow! I'd wait to install them untill Mac comes up with a fix and or we do for running N/A and non-offroad ap.

give me some time and I take some pic's of the headers after coating.

 

[SVTNICK]

Brad65ford

Really ..kenne bell said January? THey told me 6 months ago that they would have their kit out by June....For some reason I think the kit will never come out. I hope it does..but I have my doughts...ive been waiting for a year with no luck...and they never give a straight answer......I managed to find all the ford part numbers for the eaton kit on the 03..which i might get..but then i thought about it..and do I really want to buy a new hood (to reduce heat)and all that just to fit a roots style SC...?

ANyway..your thoughts on the long tubes is right..ive been told to go with LT in SC applications. LT actually reduces the strain on the motor by reducing the compression a bit when in boost(meaning less boost), yet giving you an added 25-40 HP..

When I figure out which SC route to take, ill put on my JDM LT and the accufab throttle body..until then, ill stare at them in their boxes...lol

Nick

 

[brad65ford]

They have to get around the Ford patents.

 

[SVTNICK]

THat really doesnt make sense since its out for the 96-98 models. I have 2 tuners calling every month to see whats going on..and its always a different story. First it was bc of the returnless fuel system....anyway..if i were you id price out multiple systems with all compnonents first...and make a decision from that. After all..the KB system for past CObra's dont really come with injectors and other goodies like the vortech kit..plus u might need to modify your hood. Take a good look at your options before making a final decision on the KB. Ive been weighing my optins for a solid year.....and as much as ive loved the roots in the past...im not sure if ill go with it for my Cobra anymore.

-Nick

 

[Lo Pony]

There have been 2 really good threads on this over at Corral.net - I see they were linked.

Can we come up with a comprehensive hypothesis?

I'm sure we have less backpressure with the longtubes. I also think that welding slag can get sucked right into the cylinder via the exhaust port - it doesn't have to come through the EGR passage, although the EGR passage is just one additional way it can get back up in the motor. There's not always a positive pressure gradient inside the header tubes - there's definitely a reversion of some of the flow back into the cylinder.

It seems reasonable to assume (in my opinion) that the guys who were having trouble with the oil blowing into the pcv valve have some kind of cylinder leakage or stem seal leakage to begin with - or the damage that resulted in the leakage was caused by the longtube installation and the metal bits ruining the cylinder walls. This allows the gases to get into the crankcase and the oil gets sucked into the intake tract via the pcv due to percolation.

Poorly sealing valve stem seals and the lack of backpressure in the exhaust can't be the reason for the increase in oil consumption if the only variable that has changed is header installation. Seems logical; the difference in the reduction of backpressure - while appreciable - cannot possibly be enough to account for the dramatic and sudden increase in oil consumption. To suck that much oil past good rings or valve stems, you'd need a HUGE vacuum!

So, something resulting from the installation of these headers is ruining the cylinder seal, allowing oil to be percolated back into the intake via the pcv. We all KNOW how much oil pools in the heads of these engines. That much more to bubble around and blow into the pcv passage.

I vote for the welding slag theory. It's the only one that seems simple enough to make perfect sense.

That's pretty nasty. They could at least address it as a concern at the point of manufacture. Therefore, the damage caused by an improperly cleaned longtube header on startup is immediate, detrimental, and permanent.

whoah!

 

[brad65ford]

lo pony, I thank you for your thinking on this subject. You got some good ideas. Heres whats been
running though my mind lately.
Mac, who sucks, probably never tested the headers or said they did but didn't. Now, I work in a
manufactoring plant that has been hurt in our industry by Q/C. I trying to understand Mac intend
to blame themself on the flow being to must for the Ford motors, not the Q/C welds. They are
addmitting that their brains in designing sucks, wouldn't a company rather have the problem show
up down the line (some under payed work that didn't do his job that day), Come on. I thinks Ford
would know the best about the motor design ref. air flow with EGR system flow schematic. I'm still
scratching my head and don't know if they'll be going on the old girl.:smmon: