Ported lower intake and Cams?

[SVT-NAV]

Hey guys, I have a list of mods that I will be putting in my car below; and my question is how much hp/tq can I gain from a PORTED lower intake job and cams?
Is it worth it?

If it is a good idea, what else would be feasible to do while doing those mods?

As far as cams, I'm thinking about going with crower stage II. Are the crower stage III's too much?

Also, If I decided to go with cams and get the Crower Stage 3's instead of the stage 2's, Would I need to port my heads? Do I need to change the compression? My car is an 04 cobra.

Stegemeir stage 6 Ported Blower,
Ported Plenum
Dragon tb
80lb injectors
Mafia
4lb lower
2.93 upper
JLT CAI
Afco dual pass H/E
KB BAP
BBK LT Headers
O/R Xpipe
Bassani Catback

Thanks in advance!

 

[Lstruck03]

the general consensus is that with a stock engine, and an eaton, cams are not worth the cost for the slight power increase (20-30hp). Ported lower intakes can have a small affect on power and iat2 temps, but do not expect much. probably somewhere around 5hp.

best idea is just do the mods you have listed. good power per dollar.

 

[SVT-NAV]

The reason I wanted to get cams in was because I know a friend that wants to sell his crower stage II's with springs and retainers for $800. He only put about 500 miles on them. My tuner said I would pick up about 40-50 rwhp on them. And I was on steigs website and he CLAIMS porting the lower intake is 15+rwhp. But honestly I just want to do the cams for the sound lol and obvs the extra hp.

 

[SVT-NAV]

Also, If I decided to go with cams and get the Crower Stage 3's instead of the stage 2's, Would I need to port my heads? Do I need to change the compression? My car is an 04 cobra.

 

[jerry5]

the general consensus is that with a stock engine, and an eaton, cams are not worth the cost for the slight power increase (20-30hp). Ported lower intakes can have a small affect on power and iat2 temps, but do not expect much. probably somewhere around 5hp.

best idea is just do the mods you have listed. good power per dollar.

Bro I'm not trying to be a jerk or pick a fight when I tell you that you are dead wrong here because you totally are...

This guy is talking about the classic ported eaton setup, the one I had back in 05 that makes 490-520hp to the tires and by Adding cams to this combo you will gain a bare minimum of 45rwhp max of 60rwhp. This has been documented, there was a big article in Muscle Mustang mag back in 04-05 on this to prove this very point "are cams worth it?" The lower intake is good for at least 10 solid hp and thats cheap to do... The way you get the cams done cheap is by reading up A LOT and doing the install yourself, its not that hard, I know cause I did it in my garage with plain old craftsman tools... So IMO cams can make decent power well worth the cost of the cams.
And I just dont understand why everyone now days thinks you have to have a built short block to make good power or have cams... It looks to me like plenty of guys out there making some pretty sick power on stock bottom ends, these are not foxbodys there Terminators for pete sake!

 

[1Kona_Venom]

edited re read original post

 

[SVT-NAV]

Bro I'm not trying to be a jerk or pick a fight when I tell you that you are dead wrong here because you totally are...

This guy is talking about the classic ported eaton setup, the one I had back in 05 that makes 490-520hp to the tires and by Adding cams to this combo you will gain a bare minimum of 45rwhp max of 60rwhp. This has been documented, there was a big article in Muscle Mustang mag back in 04-05 on this to prove this very point "are cams worth it?" The lower intake is good for at least 10 solid hp and thats cheap to do... The way you get the cams done cheap is by reading up A LOT and doing the install yourself, its not that hard, I know cause I did it in my garage with plain old craftsman tools... So IMO cams can make decent power well worth the cost of the cams.
And I just dont understand why everyone now days thinks you have to have a built short block to make good power or have cams... It looks to me like plenty of guys out there making some pretty sick power on stock bottom ends, these are not foxbodys there Terminators for pete sake!

I agree with everything you say. But if I chose to run crower stage 3's, would I have to port my heads or increase my compression? If i have to do that, I will just buy the crower stage II's.

 

[RangerTuckn20z]

I have seen the stock heads flow enough for 800hp with a twin screw however if you port them they can go a lot further.

I am installing the Crower stage 4's in my new build but I have a totally different setup than you do. From what I have seen there is not much to pick up from porting the lower intake. I mainly just port matched the gasket on the lower for when I up the boost.

My main mods will be.
Long tubes, full exhaust w/o cats, ported heads, ported lower intake, cams, 2.8h KB, 9.5-1 compression, e-85, but I will run low boost till I break the motor in.

 

[jerry5]

I agree with everything you say. But if I chose to run crower stage 3's, would I have to port my heads or increase my compression? If i have to do that, I will just buy the crower stage II's.

Compression has more to do with Boost than the lift of the cams, historically guys always ran low comp with boost cars but Ive also heard of guys running higher comp with these mod motors... Anyway bro forget about all that stuff right now, you are thinking to big too fast its better to take small steps in this game and learn and have fun with a completed running car that actually is on the road. Ive had so many friends in my life that would buy a shit load of parts for a certain combo, storing all the parts in there bed room for everyone to look at and by the time they had almost everything & were almost ready to start putting a car together" guess what? By then that setup wasnt fast enough or big enough for them so they started selling everything and buying bigger parts, and all this time they learned nothing! They didnt turn a wrench on a single bolt and there car was in pieces for years, then they either ended up selling it all because they got old or married or they finally tried to put it together and didnt know wtf they were doing got frustrated cause they had no patience when they realized its actual "work" instead of just reading about parts & buying then to sit on a shelf....
My point is bro pick a combo and set a limit on it and get the car running, then once you have gotten every last ounce of hp out of that setup then up grade it...

Here is what i would do with your setup- You said you are running a stock blower, ok good, and you are getting it ported, great!
Are you running an after market bigger throttle body Plenum? If so than weld & port that to match your blower and throttle body,
Throttlebody was a dragon if I recall right? Good.
Yes i would Port the lower intake
Get some good long tubes headers & x-pipe with good exhaust. Sorry I am not a BBk fan at all
Are you running a bigger crank pulley? With a stock blower I would, at least a 6lb
2.93 pulley is fine for now
80Lbs injectors are ok. I would also run bigger fuel pumps
Bap is good
Make sure you do pprv delete
Jlt cold air is fine
Afco double pass is good.
Ok now the cams, personally I would just do the stage 2's and call it a day, why complicate things the reason I say this is because you could make 700-800rwhp with stock cams and a whipple charger, stage 3's are not gonna add much power over the 2's I would just keep it simple, the goal here is for you to try to hit that ever elusive 600rwhp barrier with a stock blower, its been done but its still tough to do with that lil eaton...

Ok now go do all this and get the car running, put some money into the suspension too while your at it and add a gear...
Then when you are tuned, driving, hit 600rwhp and you are bored of that, then you should upgrade to a shortblock ported heads bigger cams fuel system and a huge blower...

Take care bro

 

[SVT-NAV]

Yeah bro your right. You said exactly what I was thinking in my head but I needed someone else to call it out lol. Honestly, I just wanted to cams for 2 reasons..1. I was getting the stage 2's for pretty cheap, but installing it would be pricey. 2. I want that sound! but not sure if the crower stage 2's even sound great compared to the stage 3.

I was planning on buying the forehat, gt pumps, dual fpdms etc..I think I will go ahead and get the lower intake ported. I also have a 4lb lower that I was planning on running with a 2.76 upper. Was going to get MAC Lt's but ended up getting a great deal on the BBK's Lt'sand o/r xpipe.

The plan that I am going with suspension right now is building my rear end. Going to be adding 3.73;s FRPP diff cover, MM aluminum bushings, stiffen up the subframe. Then move on to my clutch and 26 spline input shaft. After all that I will be installing all the parts that I listed above.

I think I will save up for cams, ported heads, pistons, bigger blower etc..A few years down the road.

 

[RangerTuckn20z]

I will have almost everything for sale now till I finish buying everything to upgrade but I am not posting it yet. Just let me know. I have a Fore hat with duel gt pumps duel fpdm's and a gt 500 bap with wiring upgrade if you are interested. This setup has made 700hp. Only about 8,000 miles on it.

 

[Lstruck03]

Bro I'm not trying to be a jerk or pick a fight when I tell you that you are dead wrong here because you totally are...

This guy is talking about the classic ported eaton setup, the one I had back in 05 that makes 490-520hp to the tires and by Adding cams to this combo you will gain a bare minimum of 45rwhp max of 60rwhp. This has been documented, there was a big article in Muscle Mustang mag back in 04-05 on this to prove this very point "are cams worth it?" The lower intake is good for at least 10 solid hp and thats cheap to do... The way you get the cams done cheap is by reading up A LOT and doing the install yourself, its not that hard, I know cause I did it in my garage with plain old craftsman tools... So IMO cams can make decent power well worth the cost of the cams.
And I just dont understand why everyone now days thinks you have to have a built short block to make good power or have cams... It looks to me like plenty of guys out there making some pretty sick power on stock bottom ends, these are not foxbodys there Terminators for pete sake!

magazine articles aside (becuase it has been proven over and over that their numbers are very hard to duplicate) please show me a stock engine ported car that gained a legitimate 45-60whp with cams alone. Using that logic, you can assume that twin screw cars can gain 70-80hp. Which just is not true. Why do you think a ton of people still use stock cams, even with engine rebuilds? I personally have Comp stg2 cams, but only because I found a deal on them. Are they better than stock? yes. Are they 45+hp better even with a high boost whipple, big heads, and more compression (like I have), no.

If you gain 30hp with cams ALONE on an eaton car, you are doing VERY good. Most likely, someone very knowledgable installed and degreed them and tuned them very well. Correctly installing cams, especially if they require a spring change, is something that 99% of the community simply can not do.

As far as ported intakes, they also have been proven to show very little gains. Go back and read some of Posi's threads where he tested his intakes, and from those who bought the ported steggy units. Again, mine is ported, but because I used cnc'd navi heads and the ports were no where close to matching.

 

[RangerTuckn20z]

Most 03-04 cobras will see gains just by degreeing the stock cams in correctly. I know mine were not correct when I pulled my motor apart however I choose to chance cams anyway.

 

[cozmo2806]

I helped Posi do some of the ported lower testing. On a ported eaton setup, it didn't show any gains. Maybe lost .5 psi of boost. I still beleive there may be some gains on a TS car. My car made significantly better numbers than most with the common TS setup with the ported lower.

 

[ttk53]

Bro I'm not trying to be a jerk or pick a fight when I tell you that you are dead wrong here because you totally are...

This guy is talking about the classic ported eaton setup, the one I had back in 05 that makes 490-520hp to the tires and by Adding cams to this combo you will gain a bare minimum of 45rwhp max of 60rwhp. This has been documented, there was a big article in Muscle Mustang mag back in 04-05 on this to prove this very point "are cams worth it?" The lower intake is good for at least 10 solid hp and thats cheap to do... The way you get the cams done cheap is by reading up A LOT and doing the install yourself, its not that hard, I know cause I did it in my garage with plain old craftsman tools... So IMO cams can make decent power well worth the cost of the cams.
And I just dont understand why everyone now days thinks you have to have a built short block to make good power or have cams... It looks to me like plenty of guys out there making some pretty sick power on stock bottom ends, these are not foxbodys there Terminators for pete sake!

Please post data because there is a lot of data that says you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

if your numbers where correct you would see a lot off 600+ whp ported eatons running around

 

[1Kona_Venom]

Maybe Im missing something and Im completely way off....but

why spend the money for cams install springs retainers and what not paired with a ported Eaton for like a 30hp gain?

How many miles are on this engine / car you are modding? If the answer is 50k or less leave it alone

Get a TS, and the fuel mods. You dont even need headers at this point. You can easily hit 600+ CHEAPER and still have room to grow.

:shrug:


Stegemeir stage 6 Ported Blower,
Ported Plenum
Dragon tb
80lb injectors
Mafia
4lb lower
2.93 upper
JLT CAI
Afco dual pass H/E
KB BAP
BBK LT Headers
O/R Xpipe
Bassani Catback

Hows your suspension look for catering to the new power?

 

[SVT-NAV]

Maybe Im missing something and Im completely way off....but

why spend the money for cams install springs retainers and what not paired with a ported Eaton for like a 30hp gain?

How many miles are on this engine / car you are modding? If the answer is 50k or less leave it alone

Get a TS, and the fuel mods. You dont even need headers at this point. You can easily hit 600+ CHEAPER and still have room to grow.

:shrug:


Stegemeir stage 6 Ported Blower,
Ported Plenum
Dragon tb
80lb injectors
Mafia
4lb lower
2.93 upper
JLT CAI
Afco dual pass H/E
KB BAP
BBK LT Headers
O/R Xpipe
Bassani Catback

Hows your suspension look for catering to the new power?

Why do I want them?....the sound LOL but obvs its not worth paying 3k or somthing just for the sound and a little more horses. Car has about 55k on it, at the end of the day I only want 550-580rwhp. I know I wont get it with the current set up but after the ported eaton, I'm planning on going with a kb 2.2, I know I can pay a couple hundred more for more power but I just don't want that much.

I was debating on just keeping the ported eaton and getting cams and ported intake to get to the 550rwhp mark, and at the same time have a sick sound at idle.

Right now I'm building my car from the rear to the front. Starting from the rear diff cover, aluminum bushings, gears, subframe connectors---Clutch, flywheel, 26 spline input shaft...supporting fuel mods for a ts in case I change my mind... And then start on the engine, I already have all the parts for the engine, but just waiting to install them after I finished the rear end.

 

[Brutal Metal]

Dude take a breath! I see you posting about all these mods, throw your ported blower on with fuel system and enjoy that for awhile.. Cams with an Eaton? Nah unless the motor was out of the car doing a rebuild etc..

 

[SVT-NAV]

Lets just say I got the crower stage 3's or the stage 2's, would I need to get upgraded pistons to change my compression or will these cams work with the stock motor. Not planning on porting the heads just yet. I remember my tuner saying something about that with the stage 3's I have to increase my compression to 9:1 or something like that. Not sure if hes right or just trying to make more money off me.

Yes I know I can get a twin screw for the price of cams, but I'm planning to get the most out of the lil eaton, plus it sounds bad ass lol. Not the smartest mod.... but I'm doing it

I'm getting a great deal on BNIB crower stage 3's. If I have to do piston work or port my heads, I have a friend who's selling crower stage 2's for cheap, but there slightly used (500 miles or less).

 

[Brutal Metal]

I don't know why you'd have to change pistons for cams?