Not Another return style thread....

[mrspeedy69]

So I have a few questions on my Fore Return install I'm going to be doing. I've decided to not run a deadhead setup. In my head this makes the most since, I guess I could be convinced to go deadhead maybe. I'd have to change my FPR around because it's not setup for deadhead. My plan is to go from pumps to front of passenger fuel rail, connect fuel rails in the back, then front of drivers fuel rail to regulator or cooler.

So I'm wanting to run a cooler as well but want to keep from running fuel lines everywhere. So I have a few questions below.

1. What fuel cooler to go with. I like the Barry Grant style coolers but I can't find them for sale.
2. Does the cooler go before or after the FPR?
3. How far from the fuel rail should the FPR or cooler be installed?
4. In my mind if supply line is on the passenger side, the cleanest install is to have the FPR and return line go down the drivers side. Is that ok to do? This is just me thinking, once I get into it I may see that none of that makes since anyway.

 

[roy_1031]

https://www.svtperformance.com/threads/i-drastically-dropped-my-fuel-temps-by-over-100f.1030180/


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[mrspeedy69]

Thanks but I've already read this. Actually malcolm is who I bought my fuel system from and he recommended that I not run the deadhead setup.

 

[MG0h3]

Thanks but I've already read this. Actually malcolm is who I bought my fuel system from and he recommended that I not run the deadhead setup.

He’s been back and forth in it. Why did he say not to?


SVTP politics triggered Bravejim

 

[mrspeedy69]

He’s been back and forth in it. Why did he say not to?


SVTP politics triggered Bravejim

Because of the hard starting issues I believe. There might be other reasons too I don't remember his exact words.

 

[SVT_Troy]

I run a dead head and do not have hot start issues. I’d go off my tuners preference.


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[Shadow Grey 03]

Because of the hard starting issues I believe. There might be other reasons too I don't remember his exact words.

Hmmm....just like any other big pump setup. Let it prime for a couple of seconds and she fires right up. Twin 465s here and I barely have to bump the key to get it to fire. However, if you just try and crank from the get go, you may not have the pressure/residual fuel in the line to get it to fire right up. Literally 2-3 seconds of the pumps being on, then turn the key. That easy.

 

[bigmoose]

^what he said. Deadhead here and no issues starting. Just let it prime for a few seconds.

Edit:. I should add I'm running stock wye and rails.

 

[03' White Snake]

Deadhead here, I run my feed and return lines up the drivers side. No issues.

I feed the back of each rail from a wye block hidden behind the blower (no egr) and I think it is the cleanest way to do it.

 

[mrspeedy69]

Deadhead here, I run my feed and return lines up the drivers side. No issues.

I feed the back of each rail from a wye block hidden behind the blower (no egr) and I think it is the cleanest way to do it.

Do you connect the rails at the front or just have them blocked off?

Does anyone know what size fittings are with the fore systems? If I decide to go deadhead or whatever I'm going to need to order some different fittings.

 

[03' White Snake]

Do you connect the rails at the front or just have them blocked off?

Does anyone know what size fittings are with the fore systems? If I decide to go deadhead or whatever I'm going to need to order some different fittings.

Front of rails are blocked off with -8an orb fittings. I am running Division X rails though.

If you look in the top right of the picture you can see my regulator mounted and the -10 feed line going to my wye block behind the blower.

Here are the rails plugged.

 

[decipha]

I have a hybrid return and returnless system on my 02 harley truck and its dead headed. I have absolutely no problems starting and thats with ID2000 injectors on 93 pump gas. If you have hard starting issues its because you didn't put a check valve on it.

I would like to know more about why deadheading is a bad idea. I can't even tell you how many deadheaded fuel systems I've taken part in over the years.

 

[GodStang]

As an engineer I can't bring myself to do a dead head setup because you are adding a fail point which you never should do in a design. That being said many have run it just fine. I have run the FRP on the drivers side for years and it worked great and just recently moved it to the passenger side.

Old FPR setup:

New FPR Setup:

So I have a few questions on my Fore Return install I'm going to be doing. I've decided to not run a deadhead setup. In my head this makes the most since, I guess I could be convinced to go deadhead maybe. I'd have to change my FPR around because it's not setup for deadhead. My plan is to go from pumps to front of passenger fuel rail, connect fuel rails in the back, then front of drivers fuel rail to regulator or cooler.

So I'm wanting to run a cooler as well but want to keep from running fuel lines everywhere. So I have a few questions below.

1. What fuel cooler to go with. I like the Barry Grant style coolers but I can't find them for sale.
2. Does the cooler go before or after the FPR?
3. How far from the fuel rail should the FPR or cooler be installed?
4. In my mind if supply line is on the passenger side, the cleanest install is to have the FPR and return line go down the drivers side. Is that ok to do? This is just me thinking, once I get into it I may see that none of that makes since anyway.

 

[decipha]

what is this fail point your adding?

 

[roy_1031]

As an engineer I can't bring myself to do a dead head setup because you are adding a fail point which you never should do in a design. That being said many have run it just fine. I have run the FRP on the drivers side for years and it worked great and just recently moved it to the passenger side.

Old FPR setup:
View attachment 1555669


New FPR Setup:
View attachment 1555670

what is this fail point your adding?

I would like to know this fail point as well. Only thing I can think of is if the FPR fails for some reason, the potential exist that zero flow will get to the rails/injectors and could create a lean condition. Let us know what your professional opinion is Godstang, truly interested in what your reasoning is as I’m going to be re doing a fuel system here very shortly was planning on changing it up to a dead head setup. My original configuration was set up like the first picture you posted.


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[GodStang]

I would like to know this fail point as well. Only thing I can think of is if the FPR fails for some reason, the potential exist that zero flow will get to the rails/injectors and could create a lean condition. Let us know what your professional opinion is Godstang, truly interested in what your reasoning is as I’m going to be re doing a fuel system here very shortly was planning on changing it up to a dead head setup. My original configuration was set up like the first picture you posted.


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Correct. In theory if failure happens to the FPR then you have zero flow to the rails and you go lean and bad things happen. On a non dead head if it fails you are still getting fuel to the rails. That being said thousands of people have run dead head for years with zero issues and the chances of it happening are very slim. I just could not do it when designing mine. I am not saying you are wrong for going dead head I just could not do it.

 

[cj428mach]

I've spoken to Malcolm about this and I believe he said its just really hard to get a factory like start up with a dead head setup. I know I battle this myself as my car takes a few cranks to light off instead of the half an engine revolution that a factory car has but I'm on e85 as well so its not a fair comparison.

I believe late 4th gen Fbodies were a deadhead return system, the fuel pressure regulator was built into the fuel filter and excess pressure was dumped back at the fuel fuel filter in the rear of the car so it can be done and work like factory.

 

[whitedevil95]

I've spoken to Malcolm about this and I believe he said its just really hard to get a factory like start up with a dead head setup. I know I battle this myself as my car takes a few cranks to light off instead of the half an engine revolution that a factory car has but I'm on e85 as well so its not a fair comparison.

I believe late 4th gen Fbodies were a deadhead return system, the fuel pressure regulator was built into the fuel filter and excess pressure was dumped back at the fuel fuel filter in the rear of the car so it can be done and work like factory.

I would definitely say my car takes longer to crank up than it did before. Even with giving it a a few seconds for pumps to prime. But i had attributed that to the E85. Never had any hot start issues, actually seems to start up faster when hot than when cold.

 

[mrspeedy69]

Thank you all for the responses. Godstang hit it on the head of where my brain goes. I like the non-deadhead setup simply for that point of failure and the peace of mind I get knowing if it fails I still have fuel. That being said I love the cleanliness of the deadhead setup. I over think things a lot so I keep going back and forth.

 

[Shadow Grey 03]

At the end of the day they both work, so it's your preference. Hopefully my regulator doesnt shit the bed..haha. I'll keep mine the way it is though. I am not on the side of "my ways better" either. It's just how I wanted to run it. Enjoy the added option of running liquid gold!