No Aussie Mustang, No EU Camaro.

[thePill]

It probably is widely known now that Ford Motor Company has dropped out of the Australian automotive market. While many were eager to see the Mustang down under, that just isn't going to happen. Ford lost a grand total of $141 million in '12-'13 and that is where it ends. Europe seems to be the next frontier for American vehicles. While an Aussie Mustang will be missed, don't pencil in a victory for the Camaro just yet. According to Bloomberg, GM has lost $18 billion in the EU since 1999. That said, GM lost $1.8 billion last year and is planning on a $2 billion dollar loss this year. Whats that mean? Well, most experts agree, GM is about to close shop and head home.

Bloomberg reports that GM has lost $18 billion in Europe since 1999. After posting a full-year loss of $1.8 billion last year, the largest U.S. car company said it would lose another $2 billion this year. And, as the overall market in Europe continues to shrink, GM's part of that shrinking pie has dropped sharply. The AECA announced that in Europe overall sales fell 7.1% in the first four months of this year. GM's sales have been worse than most of its competitors over that period. Its unit sales have fallen 10.5% to 317,546. In contrast, rival Volkswagen's sales are off only 3.4% to 997,186.

GM is in a losing game in Europe, as Ford was in Australia. Like Ford, it should cut its losses and run.

Nothing pleases me more than to see a dirty, rotten, good for nothing company repeat history, while throwing money at Nurburgring. This GM/EU market flop has an overwhelming affect on R&D across the board since "global" is the word.

Ford will halt all production of it's vehicles in AU in 2016. I imagine GM won't make it to EU to see the Camaro off. Chevrolet in general will most likely continue to test cars on Nurburgring... and that's all that really matters. Ford was smart enough to abandon a region where it had no hope of a turnaround. GM should make same move in Europe.

It wouldn't surprise me if GM literally had no idea they were losing $2,000,000,000 a year in Europe. In their defense, they never lost a dollar in Europe....... only Euro

Just for reference, General Motors had a $4.9 billion dollar profit in 2012 after the $1.8 billion lost in Europe. That's around 27% of profit lost to business as usual. No worries guv'na!!! Mr. Ammann said they can make that $20 billion back before the middle of the decade (this decade).

Wow, no sense of physical limitations at all... Another simulation?

Lets see...

13 straight years of losses in Europe? Check
$20,000,000,000 in the hole? Check
Making $20b profit in two years? Check?

 

[VictorySong]

That's some serious coin to be in the hole for per year. The loss of Ford Australia pretty much confirms that we'll never get a v8 sedan like Chevy's SS anytime soon. It would have been great to get a platform for a Lincoln style CTS-V.

 

[thePill]

That's some serious coin to be in the hole for per year. The loss of Ford Australia pretty much confirms that we'll never get a v8 sedan like Chevy's SS anytime soon. It would have been great to get a platform for a Lincoln style CTS-V.

There were quite a few great technologies that came from Ford Australia. They previously lost $280 million in 2011 and I considered that a pretty penny. However, GM dropping $2 billion a year in a specific region is catastrophic. I was aware that GM had troubles there but I didn't see the figure until just recently. I am surprised GM continues to design vehicles that adhere to European standards. It is definitely costing GM money to do so. Europe is literally eating GM alive... GM is losing just as much money in Europe as Ford AU was bringing in combined. FAU's revenue was around $2.8b...

You don't see this advertised on Camaro5!!!

As far as a rear wheel drive V8... If the market calls for one, they will deliver. It will likely depend on the impact the SS has. If it sells 15,000 a month then there is no demand for a RWD Ford Sedan here. Although, the SS is an ugly sedan and that might affect sales.

 

[thePill]

Now all the Nurburgring, deceitful, Euro cheer-leading makes sense. GM is going as far as to run ringers to gain notoriety and establish a name in Europe.

Now the Z28's purpose is clear, It was never intended on being an American road racing icon... It was built to try and capitalize on a popular European motorsport outlet. That's why Chevrolet made no attempt to make a legal entry for American road racing organizations, it's a shameless self-promotion. It's a loaded trick and "cowed" up to gain more attention. What a pity.....

Might as well left the / out...

 

[Badasp5.0]

WOW that is HUGE losses. I guess GM doesn't learn? So GM didnt apply to make the Z/28 legal for SCCA?

 

[thePill]

WOW that is HUGE losses. I guess GM doesn't learn? So GM didnt apply to make the Z/28 legal for SCCA?

No, not at this time. Even if Chevy does apply, there has to be a few major changes made to the Z28.

-The 305's in the front are too wide for every class
-The disc brakes cannot be ceramic and the front and rear disc are too large
-The LS7 has displacement restrictions at the national level, weight restrictions at the regional level.

The Z28 needs large disc and tires because it is still a heavy vehicle. Once you eliminate the tires and brakes on a 4000lb car, it won't really be worth the $70,000.

If I were on Team Camaro, I would have reverse engineered the car from Grand Am GS and SCCA GTS. I would have then tested and released numbers from US tracks. I understand Chevrolet's push at Nurburgring now, it's pure marketing tailored to that region.

I highly doubt we will see a EU Camaro at all...

 

[derklug]

Ford will still sell in Australia, just won't build there. GM will still build in Europe, just won't sell there. Opel factories will just keep churning out cars that nobody wants.

 

[thePill]

Ford will still sell in Australia, just won't build there. GM will still build in Europe, just won't sell there. Opel factories will just keep churning out cars that nobody wants.

I wish they wouldn't do that, why do they feel the need to over produce vehicles. They ultimately have to offer rebates on left over product. While most would disagree seeing as the Camaro hardly offers cash back. However, they have nearly 60,000 unsold 2010-2013 Camaro's. I know the '14 looks like crap and maybe people will feel compelled to buy the older model. I doubt that will happen... Those 60,000 didn't sell because nobody wanted them in the first place. It looks impressive on paper to investors but if you really pay attention, production of the previous model was mismanaged. It requires two shifts to build what they do a month and I have no doubts a single shift could meet demand. First year they produced 129,000 cars because initial sales projections were 150,000. They only sold 98,000 of those 129,000... Back then, that was a three shift operation. I think two shifts would have been good year two. A single shifts production numbers could remain low, saving production cost while sales are fluffed by remaining '10-'11 stock. Buy 2014, most of the '10-'13's would be gone. Eventually, sales become limited by special order. As long as production cost remain high, Chevy will need to recoup all that back via invoice. It makes it difficult to offer any manufacturer rebates while this is happening. What's worse is the 5th Gen probably hasn't turned a profit yet and probably won't if the new car is due out 2016.

As far as selling in Europe, yeah, you could still import a Camaro. You are going to pay import prices though. You can't put one in every driveway at the price they are asking now. It eliminates the whole "global" idea and again, increases R&D and production cost just to appease a very small percentage of customers. I'm talking like twelve sales a year... The Camaro has already made changes to the 2014 to meet EU standards. In fact, some of the styling was dictated by regulation. That is real dollars lost...

 

[GTSpartan]

Pill,

Last time I checked, Ford wasn't doing so well in Europe either. Better than GM for sure, but I wouldn't be bragging about it. They are on their way to losing $2 billion this year also. It is a very tough environment over there. You either idle factories and still pay all your overhead, or produce cars and end up having to heavily discount them.

Also, you are way off on you Camaro inventory stat. As of May 1 2013, GM has 26,300 total Camaro's in inventory, vs. 23,500 for the Mustang. I'm sure you'll try to punch holes in this, but these are the numbers. They are published every month.

http://www.autonews.com/assets/PDF/CA8854658.PDF

We know you like to tear down everyone but Ford every chance you get, which is totally fine. Be a little objective though.

 

[thePill]

Pill,

Last time I checked, Ford wasn't doing so well in Europe either. Better than GM for sure, but I wouldn't be bragging about it. They are on their way to losing $2 billion this year also. It is a very tough environment over there. You either idle factories and still pay all your overhead, or produce cars and end up having to heavily discount them.

Also, you are way off on you Camaro inventory stat. As of May 1 2013, GM has 26,300 total Camaro's in inventory, vs. 23,500 for the Mustang. I'm sure you'll try to punch holes in this, but these are the numbers. They are published every month. We know you like to tear down everyone but Ford every chance you get, which is totally fine. Be a little objective though.

Wow, lets do a little digging first before we make that statement. In 2010 Ford posted a $144m loss in EU, in 2011, Ford posted a $182m GAIN (Profit). This year again, they posted a $218m loss. Now, lets compare that to GM's European numbers...





Go ahead..... I'll wait....








Now that we are smarter, both Ford and GM predict a $2b loss in EU this year. While GM has lost over a billion dollars a year since 1999 (currently $18b total), Ford posted as #3 selling manufacturer in Europe in 2009.... You know, during the US recession.

Not too hot? Since the entire EU auto market is down drastically, I would say $400,000 in losses in the last 5 years in that region is pretty good... Especially after they had some years of gains.

I loath GM, Chevrolet in general for how they treated employees after their mismanagement. I supported the bailout 100% but seeing the new/old GM reemerge, I'm starting to think that "Survival of the Fittest" would have been a better option. They typically treat people like idiots and while most people generally are, they don't need to be so blatant about it.

GM released a press statement today to try and swing investors after Bloomberg went public with that about changing the product more often.

Why would they ever promise that? What happens if they get a big seller... Lets change it even though it sells good? They don't deserve the paychecks they cash.

This thread is about Ford leaving AU and GM leaving EU. Ford will not be abandoning their market share after two years of losses. GM needs to abandon Europe but they are probably to stupid to pull out. Ford announced that they were leaving Australia and their stock has been on a steady increase since last Friday (Day of the announcement). In fact, it almost hit $16 yesterday, not to long after the opening. Do you know why? Because investors see long term profits by cutting losses. GM is making idiotic promises (that they won't deliver on obviously) just to offset that bad news and keep their investors investing... When is $400,000 ($462m total) in losses anywhere near as bad as the $18,000,000,000 dollar European strap-on GM's been sittin' on? It's not like Ford is just doing nothing, they are restructuring the Europe brand AS WE SPEAK. GM will spend another $5.24b from now to 2016 to try and turn things around. If it doesn't work (and it probably won't under this regime) they will announce plans to move out before the Camaro hits the streets AND, they will be another $5.24b in the hole on top of that $20-24b in 2016.

GM is Europe's Lincoln.

I get my production and sales numbers from GM's investor website, they are also the numbers used to post the charts every month. I am correct, there are nearly 60,000 cars that were built that do not have sales attached to them. This is from the General Motors website for Investors (Its on Google) NOT Autotrader. I visit the site on the first business day of each new month.

 

[thePill]

Ok, I'm gonna say this and leave it alone because GM is done and over with in that region. General Motor's is worth $36.9 billion dollars, they are $18 billion in the hole in Europe... That is 1/2 of what they are worth.

Just take that in and leave it marinade a bit... Halfway to another bankruptcy!!! Maybe Europe will bail them out...

Don't worry Scott, when you get back to Pittsburgh you can work for us We can paint your face to match mine...

Coming back from bankruptcy is hard to do, usually less than 10% of continuing businesses make it another decade.

 

[GTSpartan]

I get my production and sales numbers from GM's investor website, they are also the numbers used to post the charts every month. I am correct, there are nearly 60,000 cars that were built that do not have sales attached to them. This is from the General Motors website for Investors (Its on Google) NOT Autotrader. I visit the site on the first business day of each new month.

It must kill you when you know you're wrong, and you still go off on these long winded diatribes about how large your car industry brain is. My data came directly from Automotive News, which is THE source for auto data. Where do you think they get their info from?

I provided hard data that GM didn't have anywhere near 60K unsold units, and Ford actually had very close to the same amount. Show me your proof of 60K units. The charts that I am almost 100% certain you use for your extrapolation are for U.S. sales only.

You make some very informative posts, and I do learn things from you, but when you claim that the Camaro program cost billions of dollars and their breakeven point is unreachable , etc, you are basically proving you're full of it. No amount of massive internet research and huge forum dissertations will change that. Unless you are very close to some high level executives at each company, there is no way you can know.

Not sure who Scott is, but ok

 

[thePill]

It must kill you when you know you're wrong, and you still go off on these long winded diatribes about how large your car industry brain is. My data came directly from Automotive News, which is THE source for auto data. Where do you think they get their info from?

I provided hard data that GM didn't have anywhere near 60K unsold units, and Ford actually had very close to the same amount. Show me your proof of 60K units. The charts that I am almost 100% certain you use for your extrapolation are for U.S. sales only.

You make some very informative posts, and I do learn things from you, but when you claim that the Camaro program cost billions of dollars and their breakeven point is unreachable , etc, you are basically proving you're full of it. No amount of massive internet research and huge forum dissertations will change that. Unless you are very close to some high level executives at each company, there is no way you can know.

Not sure who Scott is, but ok

Wrong? It's very possible GM is cooking the books... I wouldn't put it pass them. If GM is incorrectly reporting numbers, it will come back to bite them. Automotive News (I'm sure they are good) is NOT where we get data when investing is concerned. We go straight to GM. When it comes down to it, GM vs. Automotive News (media that is usually 90% inaccurate), investors tend to lean towards the GM PDF that is released every month. I can't imagine being in a conference call and debating GM's report using a media source. The numbers are correct as reported by General Motors themselves... With GM, you don't need to be a high end investor to look at their sales and production data. Since the company became public, they are forced into an open door policy so investors are not blindsided... Ford is a different story, you have to be an investor to get that data.

I'm not talking about the Camaro program. Even if I was, new models usually cost between 4 to 6 million (edit: Billion) dollars EVEN with shared components and those are figures from the late 90's early 00. I settled on the $4 billion mark because of the shared chassis and engine though, with all the delays, I would bet that could be too low. Also, I highly doubt the convertible program was figured into the initial development cost. The Camaro chassis literally had to add in additional layers within the sheet metal. The R&D for that came later ('08-'10) as well as shopping multiple vert top distributors. Since a carry over model's can start at billion dollars, and hiccups can be devastating, the 5th Gen was an expensive venture I'm sure.

The numbers are so bad, Camaro5 has abandon the sales/production records on their very own Wiki CAMARO WIKI - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com

CY Production - Sales (Left overs) As reported by General Motor and charted by a member.

2009: 81,299 - 61,648 (19,651 unsold)
2010: 94,433 - 81,299 (13,134 unsold)
2011: 106,987 - 88,249 (18,738 unsold)
2012: 91,902 - 91,145 (757 unsold)
2013: 30,201 - 27,147 (3,054 unsold to date)
Difference in production vs. sales: 55,334 Unsold Camaro's

2012's production was pretty close to last years, about 98-105,000 (Edit: 91,902). Camaro5 has put a lid on this and I have seen some of the numbers fudged so I had to check them manually. They will use MY sales vs. CY production to create a fraudulent picture. As seen here.. http://www.camaro5.com/december-2011-camaro-sales-and-production-figures/ They conveniently leave out January to September production numbers in 2010 and 2011 but count the entire model year sales. Wonder why?

Since production of the new MY started in September, they report they only made 47,000 and sold 88,249. The year before that, reported 47,000 and sold 81,000. In '09, 61,000 sold, 81,000 made. Lets pretend they are correct. That means at the end of 2011 they produced 175,000 Camaro's but sold 230,000 cars. Hmmmmmmmmm that's a pretty neat trick!!! Remember, this is as reported by Camaro5. The truth is, they are counting the MY production and comparing it to the CY sales. This was changed to hide the poor sales and over production.

Here come the links!!!
December 2009: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59396

December 2010: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122636

December 2011: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193077

December 2012: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193077 (Grand totals are now absent)

Can you explain to me in detail how a car company sells more cars than they produce? And why would Oshawa operate on 3 shits if they were only making 47,000 cars a year. That is one shift, not three. I'll explain it, they are LIARS, CHEATS and THIEVES. That's OK, fortunately, I am not a liar, cheat or thief and... if you really wanted to, you can add up the totals month to month and see how bad it really is which still eludes the masses over there. Although, the production numbers are not posted on Camaro5 anymore just deliveries. (Edit: I am finding error on the charts as well. In December 2012, they reported selling 5,837 and produced 7,378 however, if you scroll down to add up the production numbers, they have 5,837 produced and sold 7,378. Anything to throw regular people off the trail. I will find the real production and sales myself.

As of Jan 2012

In June 2012, the "difference" went missing... Kind of an important stat ya think?

Also note, the charts January production numbers were posted as 10,700 however, only 7,250 were made. I have to check my personal ledger to see why they put the Jan '12 numbers in the Dec '11 spot.

Now, back to the Camaro's initial production cost. http://translogic.aolautos.com/2010...so-much-for-automakers-to-develop-new-models/

Car companies, too, spend enormous amounts developing new models. The price tag to develop a new vehicle starts around $1 billion. According to John Wolkonowicz, Senior Auto Analyst for North America at IHS Global, "It can be as much as $6 billion if it's an all-new car on all-new platform with an all-new engine and an all-new transmission and nothing carrying over from the old model."

A single clay model cost about $300,000 alone, marketing is over a $100 million annually for new cars and Transformers cost them $20 million just to bump the Saleen Mustang from the Bumblebee spot. Just in marketing alone, from '07 to '09 was a 1/4 billion dollars. Crash testing? You think advertising is expensive, try to find that figure reasonable... Here is an article about Ford's $6 billion dollar investment on the Mondeo in 1993 http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1993/06/28/78013/

The most ambitious: the midsize Mondeo (pronounced mon-DAY-oh), a ''world car'' on which Ford is lavishing a tidy $6 billion. The car is already on sale in Europe -- that's the version in the photo above -- where it replaces the popular Sierra. In the summer of 1994 it will succeed the Ford Tempo and Mercury Topaz in the U.S. . Six billion dollars is twice what Ford spent on the vastly successful Taurus and Sable, introduced in 1985, and nearly four times as much as it cost Chrysler to bring its admired 1993 LH cars to market. GM holds the record: an estimated $7 billion for its ill-run GM-10 program (see table). Despite a $6 billion outlay, Ford stands to make little money on the Mondeo. Because of intense pricing pressures on small, fuel-efficient cars, the Mondeo will do well to break even in the U.S. Building a world car

That's $6,000,000,000 in 1993 for an all new, global vehicle (drivetrian's were shared with other models I believe). It also states that Ford spent about half of that on the Taurus/Sable in 1985. If you think GM paid less than that in 2007, you would probably be incorrect. Inflation alone brings the 1993 Mondeo to $8508853247.03 billion dollars in 2007. I seem to remember a statement released last summer about the Camaro. It was said that Chevy just started making money on each model on Camaro sold. Since total sales of the Camaro equal around $10.5 billion since April 2009, and they just recently said they are finally making money on it, I would say it cost around $9 billion to develop the 5th Gen. The statement was vague, did they mean that R&D has been paid for and now every Camaro sold was profit OR, were they losing money on each car and just finally started making money on each model. It's no secret car companies lose money for the first couple of years per model but figure service fees over the lifetime will offset that cost. Assuming we are selling big numbers in which the Camaro did not. Car makers usually make an average of $1200 per car... They could be making a dollar per Camaro or $3000 (unlikely). But this much is for sure, the Camaro was losing money on each car sold until summer 2012. I believe if they were making profit (meaning R&D is paid for, they would have said profit. However, they merely stated they were making money per car now which leads me to believe they were losing money on every car sold. We also can't pretend that R&D for the convertible, ZL1, 1LE, Z28 and redesign doesn't cost money. The new LS3 wasn't free either, nor the brand new TR6060, or the rear axle, or the IRS and so on.

Another thing, Ford does not over produce the Mustang as Chevy does the Camaro. They are usually within 1-3% of sales. Chevy finally has brought production down to actually meet real demand, not their internal projections. The damage has already been done... 55,000 2010-2013 Camaro's are out there when the 2014 hit the lots. BAD PRODUCT MANAGEMENT!!! Example: In 2011, 76,000 were produced, 73,000 were sold. 2010 stock had been completely depleted with the exception of lot lizards. Production remained the same last year even though they sold slightly more (76,000 sales if I remember correctly) because those left over 2011's were fluffing the sales and Ford had plans on the '13 anyway. So basically a repeat of 2010. There were no 2009's left in 2011. So, Ford overproduced the Mustang initially in the amount of 3000-ish, a portion of those sold with the '12. 2013's production remained the same as last year (78,000). Ford really can't make anymore cars because they are limited by a single shift. It is impossible for them to produce Camaro numbers on one shift. Therefore, impossible for them to have 60,000 unsold cars as Chevy does.

So, you wanted proof, there it is.... I don't think it's a secret, I am in this industry.



Scott as in Settlemire, he is from this area but I doubt he would return. Especially if he had to work for me...

 

[GTSpartan]

GM's now cooking the books with basically every gov't watchdog group studying them through a microscope??? Lol

This keeps getting better and better watching you B.S. your way through this. My numbers are right.

You are contradicting your own damn numbers man, and frankly, losing some credibility now.

*Post #8 you state that they produced 129K cars in the first year. No matter how I try to bend all the numbers that you provided, I cannot come up with 129K.

*Your sales numbers are for U.S. only. There have been ~13,600 sold in Canada + any other export countries that I'm not going to track down. So your initial 60,000 has gone down to 55,334, and now down to 41,743 in less than 24hrs. My number appears to be getting closer and closer.

I don't really care about these numbers, just trying to bring a sanity to your over generalizations.

 

[thePill]

GM's now cooking the books with basically every gov't watchdog group studying them through a microscope??? Lol

This keeps getting better and better watching you B.S. your way through this. My numbers are right.

You are contradicting your own damn numbers man, and frankly, losing some credibility now.

*Post #8 you state that they produced 129K cars in the first year. No matter how I try to bend all the numbers that you provided, I cannot come up with 129K.

*Your sales numbers are for U.S. only. There have been ~13,600 sold in Canada + any other export countries that I'm not going to track down. So your initial 60,000 has gone down to 55,334, and now down to 41,743 in less than 24hrs. My number appears to be getting closer and closer.

I don't really care about these numbers, just trying to bring a sanity to your over generalizations.

I showed you mine, show me where you get your facts from. The 129,000 was model year 2010's total number. That is because the model year was extended to 16 months. I have provided links, IF you can't click on them, not sure I can help you. I re-posted the number by Calender Year so people would not get confused. Regardless, your numbers are from Automotive News and mine come from General Motors so... yeah... good luck convincing others.

The reason this fact is unknown is mostly because C5 switches the numbers to make it look good.


YOU ARE DEAD WRONG AND I'M SURE YOUR TAIL IS BETWEEN YOUR LEGS NOW. :dancenana:

Post some links, lets see this Automotive News report...

Edit: It is true, 129,409 Camaro's were built for MY10 however, 94,433 were built in 2010 CY. You have to dissect the numbers WHICH YOU NEVER DO. YOU WOULD RATHER TRY TO DISCREDIT ME AS A PERSON. Good luck...

 

[thePill]

ONE MORE TIME SINCE YOU HAVE A LEARNING DISABILITY.

CY Production - Sales (Left overs) As reported by General Motor and charted by a member.

2009: 81,299 - 61,648 (19,651 unsold)
2010: 94,433 - 81,299 (13,134 unsold)
2011: 106,987 - 88,249 (18,738 unsold)
2012: 91,902 - 91,145 (757 unsold)
2013: 30,201 - 27,147 (3,054 unsold to date)
Difference in production vs. sales: 55,334 Unsold Camaro's

Links to prove it...

Here come the links!!!
December 2009: December 2009 Camaro production & sales figures. Tops Mustang for 7th straight month! - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com

December 2010: December 2010 Camaro Sales/Production Figures Ends Mustang's 23 Year Sales Reign! - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com

December 2011: December 2011 Camaro Sales and Production Figures - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com

December 2012: December 2011 Camaro Sales and Production Figures - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com (Grand totals are now absent)

I either report the numbers as MY or CY, either way, there are almost 60,000 unsold Camaro's.

If you can't understand simple addition and would rather take a media's word for it. Then you are probably part of that group GM is targeting... The gullible

What about the initial production cost? You can ignore the Senior US Automotive Analysis, lets just say what makes us feel better.

Keep going, you are amusing me with stupidity...

 

[thePill]

Come on, I AM WAITING FOR AUTOMOTIVE NEWS TO TELL ME THE FACTS!!!!

Can you explain the 55,000 UNSOLD Camaro's in which AUTONEWS said only 26,000? I guess they are correct.

Your a spiteful little man that has very little real knowledge. You never provide links, you never provide facts. You provide opinion and media stories and present that as fact. I, do not do this. I put up the links to settle your opinion. If I made errors, I have corrected them in the big post. The number still settled at 55,000. If I add up CY numbers, its 55,000. If I add up MY numbers, its 55,000. You are uninformed and very successful at it.

Here ya go ya dumb SOB...

HISTORICAL PRODUCTION & SALES STATS

March 2009: 2,936 Camaro coupes produced
April 2009: 4,878 Camaro coupes produced
May 2009: 6,901 Camaro coupes produced
June 2009: 9,456 produced / 9,320 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
July 2009: 8,520 produced / 7,113 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
August 2009: 10,682 produced / 8,680 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
September 2009: 9,461 produced / 7,961 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
October 2009: 10,536 produced / 8,082 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
November 2009: 10,630 produced / 6,687 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
December 2009: 8,368 produced / 7,548 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
January 2010: 7,227 produced / 5,371 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
February 2010: 10,010 produced / 6,482 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
March 2010: 8,686 produced / 8,904 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
April 2010: 10,106 produced / 9,150 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
May 2010: 9,987 produced / 8,931 sold
June 2010: 10,719 produced / 7,540 sold (* End of MY2010 production. A total of 129,405 MY2010 Camaros produced in total)
July 2010: 4,974 produced / 7,486 sold
August 2010: 10,252 produced / 6,321 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
September 2010: 3,619 produced / 6,323 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
October 2010: 6,210 produced / 5,013 sold
November 2010: 5,478 produced / 4,164 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger)
December 2010: 7,075 produced / 5,614 sold (outsells Mustang and Challenger) (* Camaro [81,299] Outsells Mustang [73,716] and Challenger [36,791] for 2010)
** FULL 2010 SALES / PRODUCTION CHARTS **

July 2010: 4,522 produced / 7,671 sold (* End of MY2011 production. A total of 106,987 MY2011 Camaros produced in total

FROM C5 THEMSELVES WHICH, IN TURN, GET THERE NUMBERS FROM GM. Not the media or Auto Trader. Oh, look at that, there's that 129,000 MY production. I chose to do WORK and break it down by CY so C5 couldn't further confuse people about their failing product.

 

[thePill]

Awwwwwwwww

Someone got shutup

You don't learn anything from me, you don't learn anything from anybody... It makes you feel good thinking because you can type better than the average person, it makes you better right? It doesn't... You are rarely correct.

WHERE'S AUTONEWS? or AUTOZONE... They could probably get closer to correct than what you posted..

 

[thePill]

HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Search, Copy, Paste!!!!

 

[GTSpartan]

Why aren't you including non U.S. sales? Simple question.

Also, you think the 5th gen program cost $9 billion to develop??? Holy crap dude, I want whatever you're smoking. For real, that is so far off, I can't even laugh about it. The total Curiosity Mars rover program only cost $2.5 billion, to send a one of a kind, and one of the most advanced man made creations ever 35 million miles away. The Camaro program cost 3.5X that? GM is extremely stupid I guess.