Newer and Younger Officers

[Vizior]

First of all, I'll preface this by saying that I've been a paramedic for almost six years, and absolutely love what I do and have nothing but respect for the LEOs and firefighters that I work with, and have met over my years so far.

In terms of the veteran officers, how do you deal with poor attitudes? Unfortunately I've seen changes of attitude from people I used to work with that switched from EMS to PD that really bothers me. I applaud them for finding a career that they worked hard to earn, but at the same time I hate watching them become jaded. I notice (especially of the officers that are working certain inner-city areas) that when they come back and work on an ambulance that suddenly everyone is a "perp" to them, and no longer a patient or even a human being.

In one specific instance I worked with a paramedic who was also a police sergeant over a new officer that I knew, and he even mentioned that it was an attitude like that which lands a new officer in trouble. Understandably I would imagine that empathy becomes slightly distorted. Between that and the social media garbage that never stopped (such as instagram photos of breaking 150 mph off-duty), what do you do? I'm certainly not about to find the e-mail of their captain or chief and start sending pictures and ranting e-mails. If I'm close to them, I have no issue speaking with them in private about it, but outside of that I feel lost. Would you just ignore it? Possibly find a way to contact their FTO? I don't want to see them have a problem with their career and I definitely don't want to see a patient suffer because they can't switch out of whatever mindset they are in.

 

[musclefan21]

A perp is a perp whether in an ambulance or behind bars or on the streets.

He doesn't have to give a shit about that person and have all the opinion he has about that person. As long as hd is doing his job, who cares?

Work a little bit in the hood, it will change your view about a lot of things. I have seen a guy in an ambulance who had just raped a 6 year old. I saw a dude in ambulance who just murdered his girlfriend by beating her face in. I have seen a guy who had just shot a pizza delivery man for his pizza and 20 bucks. Yeah they are perps and I personally could careless about them. When a human being does something so violent to another human being, it is hard to look at him and treat him as human being. But as professionals, we do our jobs.

Long story short my friend, as long as he does his job in the ambulance, you shouldn't worry about what his views are against certain people. If he isn't doing his job, tell him so.

 

[Deceptive]

A perp is a perp whether in an ambulance or behind bars or on the streets.

He doesn't have to give a shit about that person and have all the opinion he has about that person. As long as hd is doing his job, who cares?

Work a little bit in the hood, it will change your view about a lot of things. I have seen a guy in an ambulance who had just raped a 6 year old. I saw a dude in ambulance who just murdered his girlfriend by beating her face in. I have seen a guy who had just shot a pizza delivery man for his pizza and 20 bucks. Yeah they are perps and I personally could careless about them. When a human being does something so violent to another human being, it is hard to look at him and treat him as human being. But as professionals, we do our jobs.

Long story short my friend, as long as he does his job in the ambulance, you shouldn't worry about what his views are against certain people. If he isn't doing his job, tell him so.

Agreed!

People have become too empithetic; people are no longer held to their actions. It seems like we hold criminals lives in higher regard than their victims. I work graveyard at a level one trauma center and see scum all the time. I do my job; but I have no empathy for these animals. Look at the headlines; they are dominated by people getting off or slaps on the wrist because punishment is deemed harsh.

A kid just got out of killing people while drinking and driving underage because his upbringing in a wealthy family was deemed as a hinderance to him knowing right from wrong.

 

[Vizior]

I've worked in some pretty nasty areas, and I'm not immune to these sort of thoughts. However, it remains my opinion that as a healthcare provider it isn't our job to render judgement on someone. That is for the legal system to decide.

I've noticed that when you start assuming that someone is lower than life, you no longer become an effective patient advocate. And in some cases I have made this comment. Just because someone is a criminal does not make it acceptable to provide them a lower standard of care. And I have seen medics that have withheld pain medications, withheld medications in overdoses, intentionally missed IV sticks, etc. because they believe that someone is scum.

And all of that aside, while there are certainly many "perps" out there, that doesn't make everyone a "perp". It doesn't matter how sketchy someone is or how many jailhouse tattoos they are having, that doesn't influence the care someone should receive for their chest pains. And I would imagine that there is a similar situation for PD.

 

[musclefan21]

I've worked in some pretty nasty areas, and I'm not immune to these sort of thoughts. However, it remains my opinion that as a healthcare provider it isn't our job to render judgement on someone. That is for the legal system to decide.

I've noticed that when you start assuming that someone is lower than life, you no longer become an effective patient advocate. And in some cases I have made this comment. Just because someone is a criminal does not make it acceptable to provide them a lower standard of care. And I have seen medics that have withheld pain medications, withheld medications in overdoses, intentionally missed IV sticks, etc. because they believe that someone is scum.

And all of that aside, while there are certainly many "perps" out there, that doesn't make everyone a "perp". It doesn't matter how sketchy someone is or how many jailhouse tattoos they are having, that doesn't influence the care someone should receive for their chest pains. And I would imagine that there is a similar situation for PD.

You are entitled to have your own opinion, so does he and so am I... Choose a different career path if that bothers you. Because in the career field you are, there are things where an average joe blow ever sees, so people will have their own personal opinions against others. Thats the way it is.

Have a good evening.

 

[EvergreenSVT]

The problem isn't a lack of empathy it is a lack of professionalism. Recently spent some time talking to some NYPD guys and a relative who is a fed and has served all over the country. Conclusion was that in the NE and parts of the midwest police have yet to professionalize and policing remains a cultural activity. Petty corruption like that, jumping turnstiles, using a badge or union ID to evade parking or traffic citations, fixing tickets and mistreating customers is endemic in that area and you're unlikely to see an end to it during your career. The large PDs in the old industrial cities were created as a patronage system and enforcement mechanism for the machines that ran the city.

You should move to the west.

 

[brys00gt]

The problem isn't a lack of empathy it is a lack of professionalism. Recently spent some time talking to some NYPD guys and a relative who is a fed and has served all over the country. Conclusion was that in the NE and parts of the midwest police have yet to professionalize and policing remains a cultural activity. Petty corruption like that, jumping turnstiles, using a badge or union ID to evade parking or traffic citations, fixing tickets and mistreating customers is endemic in that area and you're unlikely to see an end to it during your career. The large PDs in the old industrial cities were created as a patronage system and enforcement mechanism for the machines that ran the city.

You should move to the west.

WOW you based that the northeast and midwest are not professional by talking to your relative and a few NYPD guys?

 

[derklug]

Much of the problem simply comes from age. When you are a new officer you tend to get the worst shifts where everyone you come in contact with is lying to you. Generally, the older the officers get, the less they are apt to take being lied to personally. Things that I would go to the mats over when I was 21 barely pique my interest now.

 

[aarons04cobra]

this sounds like that steriotypical LEO attitude OP is refuring to. Case and point! Its too bad people like this make a bad name for the rest of the LEO on this site that have a responsible, unbiased attitude towards the citizens they are payed to protect.

A perp is a perp whether in an ambulance or behind bars or on the streets.

He doesn't have to give a shit about that person and have all the opinion he has about that person. As long as hd is doing his job, who cares?

Work a little bit in the hood, it will change your view about a lot of things. I have seen a guy in an ambulance who had just raped a 6 year old. I saw a dude in ambulance who just murdered his girlfriend by beating her face in. I have seen a guy who had just shot a pizza delivery man for his pizza and 20 bucks. Yeah they are perps and I personally could careless about them. When a human being does something so violent to another human being, it is hard to look at him and treat him as human being. But as professionals, we do our jobs.

Long story short my friend, as long as he does his job in the ambulance, you shouldn't worry about what his views are against certain people. If he isn't doing his job, tell him so.

 

[EvergreenSVT]

WOW you based that the northeast and midwest are not professional by talking to your relative and a few NYPD guys?

No. Also Chicago and Baltimore guys, residents of those places and a consistent push by those people that "every stereotype you just asked about is absolutely true." I mentioned only those in the most recent discussion.

I have an uncle from Chicago that worked a union job at a landfill during law school. His uncle was a cop, called someone he knew in the mafia and arranged it. My uncle studied at the landfill and was paid for his time, minus a cut that went back to the boss.

That was arranged by a cop...

As late as 1992 if you wanted to apply for a job at CPD you had to visit your local Democratic Precinct Committeeman to get an application.

 

[brys00gt]

What year was this? The stories you have seem like they were from the 70s. I'm in the northeast and yes there are bad apples just like every other profession but overall, the northeast has some of the most professional agencies out there.
They have led the way with reform, citizen review boards , tighter hiring standards just to name a few.

 

[EvergreenSVT]

Mid 1980s to the present.

I am sure that there are a lot of good officers and good agencies up there as well.

 

[Hlistr_07RR]

this sounds like that steriotypical LEO attitude OP is refuring to. Case and point! Its too bad people like this make a bad name for the rest of the LEO on this site that have a responsible, unbiased attitude towards the citizens they are payed to protect.

"I'm going to stereotype saying all LEO stereotype". Irony at it's finest.

To the guy saying all Northeast cops are unprofessional...you're exemplifying the same stereotypical attitude as this guy. Congrats. I once met a doctor in the midwest that was rude to me. I confirmed this by talking to a relative of mine who also had the same experience and knows a few doctors in the midwest. Move to the east where doctors aren't rude.

 

[musclefan21]

this sounds like that steriotypical LEO attitude OP is refuring to. Case and point! Its too bad people like this make a bad name for the rest of the LEO on this site that have a responsible, unbiased attitude towards the citizens they are payed to protect.

duplicate account smell is strong here.

you just signed up here, yet you know all about this section? oh wait, a long time lurker huh? sorry my bad :bored:

 

[EvergreenSVT]

To the guy saying all Northeast cops are unprofessional...you're exemplifying the same stereotypical attitude as this guy. Congrats. I once met a doctor in the midwest that was rude to me. I confirmed this by talking to a relative of mine who also had the same experience and knows a few doctors in the midwest. Move to the east where doctors aren't rude.

Are you a cop in the Northeast?

Has the union or some other organization ever created printed materials for friends and family to use to indicate to other officers that they are to be treated differently?

Do you pay to use the subway?

Do you park legally in every case or are you confident that the rules will not be applied to you?

Let's add a datum point.

 

[polock4life]

A perp is a perp whether in an ambulance or behind bars or on the streets.

He doesn't have to give a shit about that person and have all the opinion he has about that person. As long as hd is doing his job, who cares?

Work a little bit in the hood, it will change your view about a lot of things. I have seen a guy in an ambulance who had just raped a 6 year old. I saw a dude in ambulance who just murdered his girlfriend by beating her face in. I have seen a guy who had just shot a pizza delivery man for his pizza and 20 bucks. Yeah they are perps and I personally could careless about them. When a human being does something so violent to another human being, it is hard to look at him and treat him as human being. But as professionals, we do our jobs.

Long story short my friend, as long as he does his job in the ambulance, you shouldn't worry about what his views are against certain people. If he isn't doing his job, tell him so.

Not always but this is the attitude that results in the lead medic withholding the proper care for the PT. I'm not saying anyone specific is or isn't, but I've seen it time and time again where a jaded medic could have treated injuries or illnesses differently. It sucks when you have a PT who has done some ultra shitty stuff.

I have seen cops shot/murdered and then other dept members end up shooting the guy who shot the cops... I now will do absolutely everything in my ability to save that person's life because that is the career path that I chose. We don't get a say in who we treat but we must treat them all equally as far as our care goes. My opinion and the oath we signed, is that if you can't do that, you should look for another job.

I can't speak for the LEO's because I am not one and only work close with them.

 

[musclefan21]

Not always but this is the attitude that results in the lead medic withholding the proper care for the PT. I'm not saying anyone specific is or isn't, but I've seen it time and time again where a jaded medic could have treated injuries or illnesses differently. It sucks when you have a PT who has done some ultra shitty stuff.

I have seen cops shot/murdered and then other dept members end up shooting the guy who shot the cops... I now will do absolutely everything in my ability to save that person's life because that is the career path that I chose. We don't get a say in who we treat but we must treat them all equally as far as our care goes. My opinion and the oath we signed, is that if you can't do that, you should look for another job.

I can't speak for the LEO's because I am not one and only work close with them.

That is what we are saying. as long as the person does his job, who cares what he thinks of anyone? you can't make or change how someone feels about another person.

About those who shot / murdered cops, while you still did your job, did you look at him as this mighty patient or a piece of shit, who should have been left for dead, but you had a job to do and you did it?

 

[polock4life]

Honestly I didn't form any opinions until after the fact... I TRY not to allow myself to think about that because IMO it will cloud my judgment.

I get the perspective you are talking about. The focus seemed to be empathy however, which is not sympathy. If you have lost empathy and work in EMS... your time is limited for being a good provider.

I won't talk shit to a PT or be a straight up ass hold no matter what. I have too much respect for myself as a professional. My time in the service plays into that as well... my core values are pretty strong. I'm not saying I'm better than anyone else by doing this... it's just how I believe that our profession should be approached.

One bad attitude really influences the group in my profession. A fire/medic in my service has 2-5 extra sets of hands on a call and you spend all day together with 5-10 other guys. I would HATE to work on a day to day basis with someone w/ that attitude.

As an officer you work much more independent so it's not fair for me to try and form an opinion from an LEO's perspective.

 

[Vizior]

Honestly I didn't form any opinions until after the fact... I TRY not to allow myself to think about that because IMO it will cloud my judgment.

I get the perspective you are talking about. The focus seemed to be empathy however, which is not sympathy. If you have lost empathy and work in EMS... your time is limited for being a good provider.

I won't talk shit to a PT or be a straight up ass hold no matter what. I have too much respect for myself as a professional. My time in the service plays into that as well... my core values are pretty strong. I'm not saying I'm better than anyone else by doing this... it's just how I believe that our profession should be approached.

One bad attitude really influences the group in my profession. A fire/medic in my service has 2-5 extra sets of hands on a call and you spend all day together with 5-10 other guys. I would HATE to work on a day to day basis with someone w/ that attitude.

As an officer you work much more independent so it's not fair for me to try and form an opinion from an LEO's perspective.

This is exactly the point I was attempting to convey. I'm not trying to say that there aren't bad people in this world. Just because someone lives in the ghetto doesn't make them scum. There might be a higher prevalence of such, but I constantly see people making judgements before even arriving. That alone shows how jaded someone is, and I believe that it is clouding their judgement and therefore altering their ability to do their job. Personally, I do my very best to treat patients as patients, and that involves treating them respectfully as a person.