Need some more help on front popping noise...

[hand-to-ball]

When I press down on the passenger side strut tower with a little force, I can hear a dull but clearly audible thud or pop which sounds like its coming from the upper strut area but could be lower in the strut. So now I can replicate the noise, which is causing the horrendous popping and groaning I get when in reverse at slow speeds (really when I load the strut area in one particular way). When the car is straightened out on the street, no problems.

Does this sound like the strut itself? Could it be something in the c/c plates (they are Hotchkis and have about 2k miles on them). Also, I can turn the top nut on the strut tower probably 2 or 3 more turns with a 13/16 wrench.

Can somebody help me and point me in the right direction with some suggestions? My Ford tech (Roush tech) suspects the strut is bad but he did not actually get under there and check. He's going by the noise in the tower. Obviously I'd like to NOT spend $400 for front struts then $150 for the install. What's more likely, the strut or a bearing in the plates?? The valving in the strut? Please help all opinions and suggestions are welcome!! My Bilsteins have 51k on them with only 2k on the H&R's.

 

[rich5150]

When I press down on the passenger side strut tower with a little force, I can hear a dull but clearly audible thud or pop which sounds like its coming from the upper strut area but could be lower in the strut. So now I can replicate the noise, which is causing the horrendous popping and groaning I get when in reverse at slow speeds (really when I load the strut area in one particular way). When the car is straightened out on the street, no problems.

Does this sound like the strut itself? Could it be something in the c/c plates (they are Hotchkis and have about 2k miles on them). Also, I can turn the top nut on the strut tower probably 2 or 3 more turns with a 13/16 wrench.

Can somebody help me and point me in the right direction with some suggestions? My Ford tech (Roush tech) suspects the strut is bad but he did not actually get under there and check. He's going by the noise in the tower. Obviously I'd like to NOT spend $400 for front struts then $150 for the install. What's more likely, the strut or a bearing in the plates?? The valving in the strut? Please help all opinions and suggestions are welcome!! My Bilsteins have 51k on them with only 2k on the H&R's.

I've had very similar issues especially noticeable when backing up, the weight would shift and the popping noise was more apparent.

Most likely there is too much movement from the CC plates/mounting of the top of the strut. Does this make sense? Do you have a stock k-member?

I'd almost bet the farm that it ISN'T ANYTHING wrong with the strut. There is some binding in the TOP where the strut mounts to the CC plate, or the spherical bearing in the CC plate itself. What brand is the CC plate?

 

[hand-to-ball]

Yes it is the stock K member and the plates are Hotchkis, which I've run on all my previous Cobras without problems.

How do you figure I could remedy this? How did you fix your problem?

 

[rich5150]

Yes it is the stock K member and the plates are Hotchkis, which I've run on all my previous Cobras without problems.

How do you figure I could remedy this? How did you fix your problem?

Well being as though I had a aftermarket K-member it changes the equation just a bit but I'd suggest this below:


#1 Make sure you have rubber spring isolators installed. (top and bottom of spring) Sometimes when turning/moving of the front suspension, the springs can bind up under load and then all of a sudden "give" and make noise.

#2, Triple check that when the strut is mounted into CC plate, that turning the wheel all the way from one side, to the other that nothing is binding up inside the strut tower. Have a buddy turn the wheel while you stare up in the strut tower.

-- The problem with this is that the car is stationary... you don't have that "movement" that you do when backing up, or turning thus resulting in something binding up.

I never really did get rid of my sound 100%. Because I have a convertible obviously the rigidity isn't as good as a coupe's would be. I ended up finding a K-member that would accept STOCK a-arms, instead of using aftermarket tubular a-arms. This also included the use of a spring-perch. This took care of 99% of my noise. The only time I hear any popping is if I am on an incline and backing up while turning the steering wheel.

See if you can get the noise to replicate every time. Backup a hill, driveway, turn the car in such a way to cause the frame to have to twist enough to create the sound. If the Ford tech says the sound is coming from the tower, it almost HAS to be the CC plate binding up with the spacers/washers on the strut itself (above and below) the CC plate.

The Hotchkis parts are usually great parts, so I doubt it would be them, but don't count them out either. Perhaps put the OEM ford CC plates back on, even though your alignment will be WAY off, try to re-create the sound with them on. From this point forward its just a process of elimination of parts.

My guess is that because of the twisting of the frame..etc, movement will ALWAYS occur in the front end. Some parts "give" a bit more allowing such movement to occur resulting in no-noise.

 

[GTCobraClone]

I have a pop when I hit the brakes and the weight goes forward and it pops again when the weight goes backwards. Mine is on the front drivers side. Also when that side hits a small bump it also makes the popping sound. Cant seem to figure out what it is

 

[hand-to-ball]

I did A LOT of thinking on this last night (i go for days or weeks not thinking about it at all then BAM it hits me and I become obsessed)...anyway, by common sense alone I have to think it is something in the strut assembly. The struts are OEM with 51k and the plates are brand new Hotchkis pieces with <2k on them.

Perhaps it's not the shaft or tube, but maybe in the mount that is attached to the top of the strut, which then seats up inside the tower and attaches to the c/c plates.

Either way, I think I've made my decision to go with new struts and mounts and see how that does. There's just no way it could be the plate or plate assembly.

 

[exdeath]

If you have CC plates, that IS the strut mount. CC plates replace the stock rubber upper strut mount with a spherical bearing in the top most plate. The only thing the strut itself should be making contact with is that bearing, where it is held securely with metal spacers and the strut nut. The stock Bilsteins have internal bump stops, so there is absolutely nothing on the underside that the strut shaft should be touching; it's all carried in that bearing in the top most plate.

I'd remove the CC plate, inspect the strut shaft by moving it in and out of the strut body and make sure it's ok, then inspect the CC plates (particularly the bearing) and carefully reinstall them, making sure to torque everything correctly. Usually a strut on it's way out will be leaking or have signs of oil. At the very least, put a torque wrench on all the nuts on the top of the plates.

 

[GTCobraClone]

I have coilovers, so its a bit different

 

[hand-to-ball]

Ok, I was thinking that the strut will still have the connecting plate and threads and that is what attaches to the metal c/c plates. So are you saying that my strut is the bare piston that's connecting into the tower and plate?

Look at this pic, at the top mounting part that is what's called the 'upper strut mount'. Running c/c plates, this piece is eliminated entirely and replaced with the metal plates?

03 04 MUSTANG SVT COBRA BILSTEIN STRUTS SHOCKS 87 - 04:eBay Motors (item 110412347878 end time Jul-16-09 16:45:00 PDT)

 

[exdeath]

Ok, I was thinking that the strut will still have the connecting plate and threads and that is what attaches to the metal c/c plates. So are you saying that my strut is the bare piston that's connecting into the tower and plate?

Look at this pic, at the top mounting part that is what's called the 'upper strut mount'. Running c/c plates, this piece is eliminated entirely and replaced with the metal plates?

03 04 MUSTANG SVT COBRA BILSTEIN STRUTS SHOCKS 87 - 04:eBay Motors (item 110412347878 end time Jul-16-09 16:45:00 PDT)

Yes, that is the lower half of the factory rubber bushed mount. All that crap is eliminated with CC plates. The top threaded portion of the bare strut piston passes through the bottom plate-shock tower-middle plate sandwich (without touching) and is bolted (with solid metal spacers) only into the spherical steel bearing in the top most CC plate. That is to say, that the entire load of the strut shaft, including coilovers when installed, passes through the stepped shoulder of the shaft, through spacers, into the inner part of the bearing in the upper CC plate.

If you have coilovers also, you have an additional physical interface between the strut body, spring, and upper spring perch cone positioned just under the spacers below the bearing. The top of the coilover system should also not be touching anything, it should be centered in the strut tower opening and on the strut shaft, resting only on the spacers on the strut shaft, below the bearing that the strut is bolted too.

No part of the entire assembly should contact the bottom plate, strut tower, or middle plate at any time, through full suspension travel and turning lock to lock. The only part of the top of the strut (including coil over) that should ever be in contact with anything at the top of the strut tower, is the threaded portion of the strut shaft, via solid spacers and top nut, connected to the center of the bearing, and it should be free to pivot, without any part of the shaft on either side of the bearing hitting anything.

Some things to check, assuming everything is torqued correctly and nothing is broken or loose:

1) popping may have to do with your plates installed in the "race" orientation that pushes the camber range too extreme and causes the strut (or top of spring assembly with coilovers) to be too far from the center of the strut tower hole with a "street" alignment and make contact with the edge of the sheet metal in the strut tower. You can generally fix this by swapping the middle plates from driver to passenger side, if that is the case.

2) You might also make sure the strut shaft spacers are installed correctly. You must use spacers on most CC plates, at least on the top, so that the bearing is free to pivot without the top nut binding up against the bearing or plate. Space is tight to both immediate sides of the bearing, the spacers keep the area above and below the bearing narrow so the bearing has room to swivel side to side freely without something binding.

3) Upper spring perch hitting lower plate bolts if you have coilovers. You adjust this with spacers between the spring perch and lower bearing, at the cost of suspension travel (bump distance).

4) If the car is lowered via more spacers at the top of the strut shaft, and the shaft is protruding through the engine bay higher than stock, check hood clearance.

You really have to start grabbing things with your fingers while replicating the popping and figure out where it's coming from, and get in there with a mirror.

And don't just check after installation, CHECK CLEARANCES AFTER ALIGNMENT! With the car supported from the frame, wheel off, and a jack under the control arm, turning the wheel lock to lock at both full compression and full rebound.

If you need visuals, go to maximummotorsports.com and look at the installation instructions for the camber/caster plates and coilovers.

 

[hand-to-ball]

exdeath thank you for all the information, it is very helpful. I am not a mechanic so i don't have the means to take the plate apart - i'll have to go back to my tuner/mechanic.

If you take into consideration the main symptom I described above (pushing down on the passenger strut tower with some force, and hearing a dull thud from the upper area) what would you speculate was the problem if you had one guess? Again I know it's pure speculation but with your knowledge base, perhaps you have a good gut feeling. it almost feels like the top of the strut piston is thudding against the underside of the plate...thanks again!!

 

[exdeath]

exdeath thank you for all the information, it is very helpful. I am not a mechanic so i don't have the means to take the plate apart - i'll have to go back to my tuner/mechanic.

If you take into consideration the main symptom I described above (pushing down on the passenger strut tower with some force, and hearing a dull thud from the upper area) what would you speculate was the problem if you had one guess? Again I know it's pure speculation but with your knowledge base, perhaps you have a good gut feeling. it almost feels like the top of the strut piston is thudding against the underside of the plate...thanks again!!

There should be nothing under there to thud into anything.

Is it lowered? Check hood clearance and signs of the hood contacting the top of the strut shaft.

Does it make the thud with the hood open? The "piston" should not be moving at all relative to the mount/bearing. It should be fixed solid to the bearing in the top plate, as controlled by the torque in the top nut on the shaft.

The only thing it might be hitting if installed properly, without coilovers, is if the alignment is extreme and the shaft is too close to the strut tower sheet metal.

Any other problem is either in the CC plates or the strut, or the strut tower itself.

The lower plates are also supposed to be installed with washers which act to isolate the flat plates over the strut tower sheet metal to accomodate out of plane tolerances in the tower mounting holes by "floating" the plate, especially plates that require drilling a 4th hole. It's possible you don't have these washers and you are hearing the plates shift around on the bare strut tower that is slightly out of plane.

Can't really be anything else, there isn't a whole lot in there.

 

[hand-to-ball]

It is making noise with the hood open, so it can't be a clearance issue. It is lowered with H&R race springs and the alignment is dialed in very close if not a match to, the stock spec. It was making this noise before my suspension setup (which was all stock) but not as pronounced. Could the strut be used to the stock ride height? Who knows. I can tighten the top strut nut about 3 turns or so before it won't really turn anymore (without a lot of effort). I should also mention that when I grab the plate by the shaft containing the center strut nut and wiggle side to side, I get NO noise - solid as a rock. It's only in the up and down where I get it. Something hitting the spring or the spring twisting against the perch? I know - there is no way to know without getting under there. Problem is, I don't know which to replace first, the Hotchkis piece with a Steeda piece, or the strut.

So my upper strut mount IS my Hotchkis plate? I really need a lightbulb to go off in my head.

 

[exdeath]

It is making noise with the hood open, so it can't be a clearance issue. It is lowered with H&R race springs and the alignment is dialed in very close if not a match to, the stock spec. It was making this noise before my suspension setup (which was all stock) but not as pronounced. Could the strut be used to the stock ride height? Who knows. I can tighten the top strut nut about 3 turns or so before it won't really turn anymore (without a lot of effort). I should also mention that when I grab the plate by the shaft containing the center strut nut and wiggle side to side, I get NO noise - solid as a rock. It's only in the up and down where I get it. Something hitting the spring or the spring twisting against the perch? I know - there is no way to know without getting under there. Problem is, I don't know which to replace first, the Hotchkis piece with a Steeda piece, or the strut.

So my upper strut mount IS my Hotchkis plate? I really need a lightbulb to go off in my head.

Yes, the Hotchkis plate is now the upper mount. The alignment may be spot on but how about the position of the plates? How close is the strut shaft to the shock tower?

If you can hear and feel it in the shock tower by barely pushing down on the fender, it's not your factory location inboard springs. The only way to check the struff is removing the Hotchkis plate so that you can move the strut shaft in and out by hand and feel how the strut behaves.

Of course this involves having the car on jack stands and jacking up the control arm to remove the load from the plate while you remove it, and having a unsupported control arm on the jack with a live spring, so it's probably not something you want to do yourself if you aren't familiar with working with suspension components.

 

[hand-to-ball]

Yes, the Hotchkis plate is now the upper mount. The alignment may be spot on but how about the position of the plates? How close is the strut shaft to the shock tower?

If you can hear and feel it in the shock tower by barely pushing down on the fender, it's not your factory location inboard springs. The only way to check the struff is removing the Hotchkis plate so that you can move the strut shaft in and out by hand and feel how the strut behaves.

Of course this involves having the car on jack stands and jacking up the control arm to remove the load from the plate while you remove it, and having a unsupported control arm on the jack with a live spring, so it's probably not something you want to do yourself if you aren't familiar with working with suspension components.

I think you're 100% spot on in looking down the tower-well to see what that strut is doing in there. Maybe that will allow me to confirm if it's the plate placement, or a bad strut, or possibly as a longshot the spring being seated incorrectly and bumping up against something.

The mechanic that did the work is very good, and I'd be surprised if the plate wasn't installed properly. I'll keep you updated as I know others are having this front end issue.

 

[GTCobraClone]

Im waiting to get out of work today to remove my plate and look at my strut & coilover

 

[hand-to-ball]

Tell me what you find it may help me. I've got an appointment this Saturday to have the plate taken out and inspected by a REPUTABLE shop.

 

[Danno44]

Subscribing as well. Good info.

 

[GTCobraClone]

Ok guys I went to a shop which are really good friends of mine and we got the car on the lift. First off, the main popping noise was in my case was coming from the A-arms. They werent tightened completly. I still have a minor barely noticeble pop on the drivers side. I was told that some CC plates have a bearing inside were the shaft comes through and for some reason after a while they beging to have play and noise comes from that too. Its a popping sound. Hope this helps. If you have any question let me know.

 

[hand-to-ball]

Got back today and mine turned out to be two things: the center strut nut was not tightened to the point where the rubber/poly bearing inside began to mushroom and tightly center the strut, resulting in some play. That reduced the popping by 50%. The other 50% was the passenger side strut - when my guy exposed the piston, there was some side to side play which would cause noise whenever certain loads were put on the strut (mainly on inclines where the piston would move towards the outer casing. The strut is getting replaced next week and no more noise!