My opinions: Twins / whipple / JT

[CSG]

I get asked a lot for my thoughts so I will share a bit here. Of course many will not agree but whatever I just call it how I see it. This is for the guys who daily their cars and won't help the hardcore guys any at all. All combos were on my current car with a built engine.
Car is a 11 GT A6.

First combo:
Hellion Twin
ID1000 with BAP
stock converter and then a circle D 1E.
Real panty dropper. Everyone loved to look at it and it sounded cool when the BOV's opened. Made really good power on 93 and MS109. Never could get it to run right (search my threads). Very violent on street tires. It was very slow feeling unless you went WOT and then it was crazy. Not a lot of fun to drive unless you had room to really move out. The other twin car I rode in was the same.

Second combo:
Same setup except replaced the twins with a 10 rib Whipple 2.9, AR headers and put the stock converter back in. Unrelated troubles kept me from driving this setup much, but I would say this is a great everyday setup. Personally I don't like the feel of the converters that much so this with the stock converter was great. Lots of power everywhere and smooth driving.

Current Combo:
9.5:1 Aluminator
Full Exhaust
Return fuel system
Vortch JT 8 rib 3.15 pulley
Circle D 2C
With this setup the car is much more fun than the twins. At partial throttle it still feels fast. Does not drive quite as well as the 2.9. (surges a bit). Have yet to take it to the track but it would not be a fair comparison anyway as I never got the twins to run near their potential. If it was not for the converter this would be very close to the Whipple for everyday driving of course it would probably feel slow without the converter though. The car has more potential with the JT then the 2.9.

Cliff notes:
Show car or hardcore drag car: Twins
Everyday car that your wife drives around in: PD Blower
Drive it a lot and value the ET: JT / Paxton

 

[mattaglover]

nice review. Thanks

 

[92fiveohfox]

Good info man, just curious what do you not like about the converters? I'm debating on putting one on my DD or not.

 

[06Bluerex]

hows the comparison between the 9.5:1 compression compared to the 11.0:1 stock compression motor?

 

[CSG]

I never drove this car with the 11.0:1 stock engine so I can't comment on that.

On the converter, I don't like the rpm's when I start from a dead stop. Not terrible but not as daily friendly as a stock converter. When you mix it with a big red BOV it is quite noisy also.

 

[vortecd]

Nice write up on your experience with them.

My thought for a show car is PD blower. To me they look way better then the rest and perform very well

 

[RusWolf]

nice experience with different forms of FI!

I'm surprised to hear your feedback about twins.... unless people are not reporting what you are reporting but general impression is that they rock. Am i wrong?

 

[manolith]

I never had twins or a pd on this car but the centrifugal blowers is really fun. the power delivery is identical to the n/a coyote only with a lot more power on top.

 

[slagburn]

Sounds like you may have had install or tuning errors with the Hellion kit. Done right they are nothing like that.

 

[CSG]

I can't say for a fact that everything was as good as it could get with the twins but I did re-do the install and had two different tuners tune it before giving up on it. 11's seem to bring the suck with the hellion kit for some reason. Every nightmare story I have heard was with an 11.

 

[Stevem17500]

Ur troubles seem all tune related

 

[CSG]

Ur troubles seem all tune related

Possibly, but the trouble with the twins stalling out are common on other 11's as well. Hell it is the same stuff Hellion's car was doing during the king of the street shootout. But I am not attempting to discuss those issues here, just the driving characteristics of each setup. Other Hellion twin owners have commented as well about their cars feeling "slow" except at WOT so it is not just mine. There was an on3 can being done at the same time as mine at TSS. It was easier to tune and drove better than my Hellion car. Owner still stated that it felt slower than stock while just driving around.

 

[badbiach]

Possibly, but the trouble with the twins stalling out are common on other 11's as well. Hell it is the same stuff Hellion's car was doing during the king of the street shootout. But I am not attempting to discuss those issues here, just the driving characteristics of each setup. Other Hellion twin owners have commented as well about their cars feeling "slow" except at WOT so it is not just mine. There was an on3 can being done at the same time as mine at TSS. It was easier to tune and drove better than my Hellion car. Owner still stated that it felt slower than stock while just driving around.

I remember your issues with the Hellion. Sucks it took tuners a while to figure out the stalling issues. Yes, my car does feel so slightly down on power under light to medium throttle, but most would never notice. I think if everyone drank a truth serum, they would agree that any turbo car is going to feel slightly down on power under light throttle.

 

[gimmie11s]

I remember your issues with the Hellion. Sucks it took tuners a while to figure out the stalling issues. Yes, my car does feel so slightly down on power under light to medium throttle, but most would never notice. I think if everyone drank a truth serum, they would agree that any turbo car is going to feel slightly down on power under light throttle.

agree

people who want immediate off the throttle power will hate a turbo set up. Research "lag" and proper turbo sizing. Anyone with a single 88mm or twin 76s or some other large turbo would be foolish to tell you how great their car drives at low speed/part throttle and/or how often they daily drive it.

Now..... the flip side is, once boost comes on you'd better HOLD ON!

No set up makes more power then a properly built/sized turbo system.

That said... they're not the best choice for many folks.


I will probably choose a centri once i boost mine.

 

[Joey8]

I can agree somewhat with the car feeling down on power on part throttle or when out of boost. I am still running the stock motor so it is a very conservative tune, max timing is around 11.5 - 12 degrees. However, if i mash the throttle the turbos spool like no other and im in full boost before you know it, then it moves out like a bat outta hell. I'm sure if i wanted a more agressive tune and added a bit more timing it would feel better on part throttle for sure. But im content with it as it is. I got an armaggedon kit BTW with a smaller AR housing at .86 with garrett gt3076's.

 

[mhyjek]

I have centri with WG setup ala beefcake lund tuned stock bottom end and the car rips my friend who has 11 lightly modded ctsv coupe and my cousin with 600+ hp NA z06 both agree the car is a beast when WOT and driveability is NA with mopower!!! I'm still debating a single with the right size turbo and the built engine??? My goal is 900 on pump with supporting mods and 1100 on race gas but I still want the car to drive as is... Can this be obtained with JPC or CPR setup??? I understand paxton can put out 1000+ but I need to change the belt often...

 

[Joey8]

I have centri with WG setup ala beefcake lund tuned stock bottom end and the car rips my friend who has 11 lightly modded ctsv coupe and my cousin with 600+ hp NA z06 both agree the car is a beast when WOT and driveability is NA with mopower!!! I'm still debating a single with the right size turbo and the built engine??? My goal is 900 on pump with supporting mods and 1100 on race gas but I still want the car to drive as is... Can this be obtained with JPC or CPR setup??? I understand paxton can put out 1000+ but I need to change the belt often...

900 on pump is playing with fire. I would say 750 - 800 is the max rwhp you would want to go on pump gas especially with these fabulous winter blends that are going to be hitting stations if they havent already...

 

[manolith]

900 on pump with meth should be fine. on pump alone I doubt it. on pump e85 no problem.

 

[CPRsm]

If you have a turbo setup that can make 1300rwhp+ it's going to be a little lazier in and out of light throttle. The turbo is a restriction. It also doesn't move much air to make the vacuum drop. But it is entirely possible to have more than stock power, at light load and throttle w a turbo. We've done it, but it's just too much. You drive around in light load and always hear the turbo like a chipped F250. That's a good reason we stayed w the T6 stuff. Extremely fast spooling is fun for a week or so lol. But we usually target the turbo to kick start about 3k most times. That way it drives around stock but you control the boost threshold w the gas pedal. Spool too fast and you lean into it, it accelerates, then jumps to 8psi on its own w little driver input. It's not as fun as most think when they say they want it to spool as fast as possible.

 

[beefcake]

If you have a turbo setup that can make 1300rwhp+ it's going to be a little lazier in and out of light throttle. The turbo is a restriction. It also doesn't move much air to make the vacuum drop. But it is entirely possible to have more than stock power, at light load and throttle w a turbo. We've done it, but it's just too much. You drive around in light load and always hear the turbo like a chipped F250. That's a good reason we stayed w the T6 stuff. Extremely fast spooling is fun for a week or so lol. But we usually target the turbo to kick start about 3k most times. That way it drives around stock but you control the boost threshold w the gas pedal. Spool too fast and you lean into it, it accelerates, then jumps to 8psi on its own w little driver input. It's not as fun as most think when they say they want it to spool as fast as possible.

Same happens with a centr too, if you throw a ysi on one of these cars with a big pulley, it won't be any fun at all
you have to match the size of the power adder to how you plan to use the car the majority of the time