YAYYYYYY no more side pipes 
car looks fantastic.
car looks fantastic.
More 1969 Firebird Goodness
- Thread starter Torch10th
- Start date
Screw carburetors! After dealing with vapor lock issues all summer long, and only being able to bandaid the system, I decided to bite the bullet and swap to EFI. I had been shopping the Holly Terminator TBI or their HP system for SPFI and the price was just above what I really wanted to spend, plus you'd need the fuel system to boot,
I came across FiTech recently and their TBI systems are not only about half the price of their competitors, but also have a lot of nice provisions that their competition doesn't.
The ECU will control fueling via wideband, timing from a magnetic trigger dizzy as well as fan/s. No need for expensive dual sync distributors and complicated wiring for timing control.
FiTech is the performance arm of an OE supplier so all of the sensors in the unit can be sourced from a GM parts store, with the exception of the Bosch wideband. The ECU is incorporated into the throttle body so you don't have an ugly box to mount somewhere and the fuel pressure regulator is on the unit as well. That's another cost you don't incur and not another piece to add to a firewall. The unit has annular discharge boosters for better atomization.
This system is still fairly new, but of the people that I've read about that have installed it, they all seem to be quite happy with the unit. I'm guinny pigging this one a little but with it being so new, but I couldn't pass up the price.
I ordered their standard in-line fuel kit for now. I'll retrofit that over the winter and switch over to an EFI baffled fuel tank and in-tank pump. I'll try and do an install write-up when I get the parts in a couple weeks.
I came across FiTech recently and their TBI systems are not only about half the price of their competitors, but also have a lot of nice provisions that their competition doesn't.
The ECU will control fueling via wideband, timing from a magnetic trigger dizzy as well as fan/s. No need for expensive dual sync distributors and complicated wiring for timing control.
FiTech is the performance arm of an OE supplier so all of the sensors in the unit can be sourced from a GM parts store, with the exception of the Bosch wideband. The ECU is incorporated into the throttle body so you don't have an ugly box to mount somewhere and the fuel pressure regulator is on the unit as well. That's another cost you don't incur and not another piece to add to a firewall. The unit has annular discharge boosters for better atomization.
This system is still fairly new, but of the people that I've read about that have installed it, they all seem to be quite happy with the unit. I'm guinny pigging this one a little but with it being so new, but I couldn't pass up the price.
I ordered their standard in-line fuel kit for now. I'll retrofit that over the winter and switch over to an EFI baffled fuel tank and in-tank pump. I'll try and do an install write-up when I get the parts in a couple weeks.
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The unit looks mighty nice Jason. I hope it works 100% for you. Your Firebird just keeps getting better and better.
The wife had back to school night tonight so I took the car out for a little bit. Here's a quick video.
[youtube_browser]-93HOnwz8Ac[/youtube_browser]
[youtube_browser]-93HOnwz8Ac[/youtube_browser]
More goodies arriving for the car. The factory tank just wasn't cutting it with the EFI. The factory return line in the tank was rotted and causing some ubstructions which in turn was causing fuel pressure creep and flooding the engine.
Enter Tanks Inc.
Tanks Inc. EFI baffled tank, Walbro 255lph pump, sender, straps, NPT to AN fittings, rollover vent and a gas cap.
This unit is so pretty, I almost hate to put it under the car! I peaked up it's skirt a bit and the baffling in the tank is pretty serious, I thought it was just a sumped tray. There is a full wall baffle running the length of the tank which segments it in to two areas. I can't see beyond that baffle to see how else it's constructed. It also then has the sump tray where the pump mounts. Because the fuel return exits into the tray, there's little feat of ever uncovering the pickup, especially with the sock in place.
The venting is also designed for large fuel volumes. Not only is there a vent for the pump module itself, but you can see in the photo that the tank has a barbed vent itself. You can either run these separate or use the supplied Y and a 3/8" fuel hose attached to the rollover vent. Nice insurance in case of a crash so you don't go spilling fuel all over the place.
Enter Tanks Inc.
Tanks Inc. EFI baffled tank, Walbro 255lph pump, sender, straps, NPT to AN fittings, rollover vent and a gas cap.
This unit is so pretty, I almost hate to put it under the car! I peaked up it's skirt a bit and the baffling in the tank is pretty serious, I thought it was just a sumped tray. There is a full wall baffle running the length of the tank which segments it in to two areas. I can't see beyond that baffle to see how else it's constructed. It also then has the sump tray where the pump mounts. Because the fuel return exits into the tray, there's little feat of ever uncovering the pickup, especially with the sock in place.
The venting is also designed for large fuel volumes. Not only is there a vent for the pump module itself, but you can see in the photo that the tank has a barbed vent itself. You can either run these separate or use the supplied Y and a 3/8" fuel hose attached to the rollover vent. Nice insurance in case of a crash so you don't go spilling fuel all over the place.
Looking good man. I love the stance and look. I was actually thinking of selling my fox coupe for another classic pontiac. At first I wanted a 70-73 firebird but lately Ive been wanting a 70-72 Lemans/GTO. Only problem is as you may know the parts arent there for Pontiac esp 2nd gen haha.
Nice on The fuel Injection. I saw a thread about it over on Performance Years. Everyone talks very high of it.
In my video search of pontiac cars this was one of the best sounding ones I saw. I actually have the same mufflers going on my stang.
https://youtu.be/5r440ocxOcs
Nice on The fuel Injection. I saw a thread about it over on Performance Years. Everyone talks very high of it.
In my video search of pontiac cars this was one of the best sounding ones I saw. I actually have the same mufflers going on my stang.
https://youtu.be/5r440ocxOcs
I've apparently missed a lot of this build since the last time I saw your car it had no glass or interior. Looks really bad ass now, can't wait for the new exhaust on it.
It's time for another update on the car. Since being out on the road last summer, I have continuously fought full throttle detonation issues. The engine simply had too much compression, not enough cam and the lazy factory combustion chambers weren't helping.
As a result to get the engine to live on the street with a mix of 100 and 91 octane, I've had to neuter the tune up quite a bit. The advance curve was lazy and not providing all the timing the engine wanted and needed and fueling was fat. On a crisp 75 degree day with coolant temps in check, it was a dream to drive, even barring the expense of 100 octane fuel. Once temperaturs crept much higher, the neutered tuneup meant that water temps would rise slight above 200 degrees and with it the onslaught of detonation. There's always E85, trips to the local airport, methanol injection and heck even buying bulk race fuel. The problem was that none of those in my area represent a real world solution where I could turn the key, go for as long of a drive anywhere I want and do whatever I want without presenting a challenge to stave off the little men with hammers.
It's taken me a year of diligently saving and several weeks ago I started ordering parts for a full top-end rebuild. Everything from the short-block up is being replaced, so I can finally drive the car the way I want to. Full parts list below.
Intake Manifold: Edelbrock Torker II (as cast)
Heads: Kauffman Racing Equipment D-ports (as cast, 85cc CNC chamber
Cam: Custom spec Comp Cams hydraulic roller w/BOP engineering polymer distributor gear
Lifters: Lunati performance series roller lifter
Pushrods: Smith Bros. 8.7" .080 wall center oil
Head studs/bolts: ARP
Gaskets/Seals: Felpro Ram Air IV port intake, exhaust, timing set. #1016 permatorque head gaskets
The only items I'm reusing are my comp magnum roller tip rockers and the cloyes timing set which is tight and shows no wear.
I was able to tear down the entire engine with an extra set of hands over the weekend. I did find that the cam thrust plate was worn heavily so I've not started the rebuild process yet as I'm waiting for delivery of that and a new cam key. My heads will arrive on Tuesday and the thrust plate should arrive on Wednesday. My goal is to fire the car and start retuning the EFI on Friday evening.
Cam spec'd by Jeff Kauffman.
Lifters:
Top end removed sans cam and timing set:
Speed Pro forged pistons. Fortunately there's no signs on the piston tops indicating permanent damage. in fact, there's very little carbon build up present. I don't know the exact mileage on the engine, but it's under 5000 and does show. I have only measured the deck height on pistons 1 and 6 and they look to be an average of .008 in the whole. I was hoping to see a zero deck, but this is inline with an engine that has been rebuilt and only had a surface done on the deck for flatness. With the Felpro 1016 gasket's crush thickness of .038 I will have an effective quench distance of .046, on the higher side of optimum.
Driver's side bank. The piston walls look great with only the slightest amount of wear on the trust side. They are mirror smooth, retain their cross hatching and have no developed a ridge at the compression ring's top position.
The lifter galley has had a (very) quick debur done to it which while not necessary is good insurance on a higher horsepower application. If the engine was out and receiving a full rebuild I would round the casting flash a bit more to remove more sharp edges.
Passenger side head. Nothing really out of the ordinary here. The chambers show no signs of detonation, nor do the plugs. You can see with the duel plane manifold that there's a bit of fuel distribution inconsistency in the cylinders. This is fairly normal with all dual plane intake manifolds, but gets magnified with throttle body injection over a carb.
Driver's side head is much the same, but you can see there's a bit more fuel distribution irregularity with several cylinders seeing a richer mixture.
Some of the irregularities in fuel distribution were likely caused by reversion in the combustion chambers and intake manifold. This would make a bit of sense considering the cam I pulled out of the block which was a comp 280H. This cam is a single pattern cam out of a catalog and not entirely designed specifically for a Pontiac application. In a mild to moderate 400 or a hi-po 350 it would likely work well. However in a large inch, long stroke 455, it's simply not enough cam and builds too much cylinder pressure with it's short seat to seat timing and narrow LSA, contributing to my detonation issues.
Once the new heads arrives, I'll snap a few pics and post them here. While based on the standard D-Port Pontiac head, these aluminum heads feature a better short turn radius, increased port size while maintaining good port velocity, a modern fast burn combustion chamber and spark plugs relocated nearer to the exhaust valve for a more efficient combustion.
Final compression numbers will come in a bit shy of 10.25:1. Given my altitude, the more efficient chamber and the reduced static and dynamic compression, I will be able to tune this for long cruises on 88 octane and tune at 91 octane for racing and street performance.
As a result to get the engine to live on the street with a mix of 100 and 91 octane, I've had to neuter the tune up quite a bit. The advance curve was lazy and not providing all the timing the engine wanted and needed and fueling was fat. On a crisp 75 degree day with coolant temps in check, it was a dream to drive, even barring the expense of 100 octane fuel. Once temperaturs crept much higher, the neutered tuneup meant that water temps would rise slight above 200 degrees and with it the onslaught of detonation. There's always E85, trips to the local airport, methanol injection and heck even buying bulk race fuel. The problem was that none of those in my area represent a real world solution where I could turn the key, go for as long of a drive anywhere I want and do whatever I want without presenting a challenge to stave off the little men with hammers.
It's taken me a year of diligently saving and several weeks ago I started ordering parts for a full top-end rebuild. Everything from the short-block up is being replaced, so I can finally drive the car the way I want to. Full parts list below.
Intake Manifold: Edelbrock Torker II (as cast)
Heads: Kauffman Racing Equipment D-ports (as cast, 85cc CNC chamber
Cam: Custom spec Comp Cams hydraulic roller w/BOP engineering polymer distributor gear
Lifters: Lunati performance series roller lifter
Pushrods: Smith Bros. 8.7" .080 wall center oil
Head studs/bolts: ARP
Gaskets/Seals: Felpro Ram Air IV port intake, exhaust, timing set. #1016 permatorque head gaskets
The only items I'm reusing are my comp magnum roller tip rockers and the cloyes timing set which is tight and shows no wear.
I was able to tear down the entire engine with an extra set of hands over the weekend. I did find that the cam thrust plate was worn heavily so I've not started the rebuild process yet as I'm waiting for delivery of that and a new cam key. My heads will arrive on Tuesday and the thrust plate should arrive on Wednesday. My goal is to fire the car and start retuning the EFI on Friday evening.
Cam spec'd by Jeff Kauffman.
Lifters:
Top end removed sans cam and timing set:
Speed Pro forged pistons. Fortunately there's no signs on the piston tops indicating permanent damage. in fact, there's very little carbon build up present. I don't know the exact mileage on the engine, but it's under 5000 and does show. I have only measured the deck height on pistons 1 and 6 and they look to be an average of .008 in the whole. I was hoping to see a zero deck, but this is inline with an engine that has been rebuilt and only had a surface done on the deck for flatness. With the Felpro 1016 gasket's crush thickness of .038 I will have an effective quench distance of .046, on the higher side of optimum.
Driver's side bank. The piston walls look great with only the slightest amount of wear on the trust side. They are mirror smooth, retain their cross hatching and have no developed a ridge at the compression ring's top position.
The lifter galley has had a (very) quick debur done to it which while not necessary is good insurance on a higher horsepower application. If the engine was out and receiving a full rebuild I would round the casting flash a bit more to remove more sharp edges.
Passenger side head. Nothing really out of the ordinary here. The chambers show no signs of detonation, nor do the plugs. You can see with the duel plane manifold that there's a bit of fuel distribution inconsistency in the cylinders. This is fairly normal with all dual plane intake manifolds, but gets magnified with throttle body injection over a carb.
Driver's side head is much the same, but you can see there's a bit more fuel distribution irregularity with several cylinders seeing a richer mixture.
Some of the irregularities in fuel distribution were likely caused by reversion in the combustion chambers and intake manifold. This would make a bit of sense considering the cam I pulled out of the block which was a comp 280H. This cam is a single pattern cam out of a catalog and not entirely designed specifically for a Pontiac application. In a mild to moderate 400 or a hi-po 350 it would likely work well. However in a large inch, long stroke 455, it's simply not enough cam and builds too much cylinder pressure with it's short seat to seat timing and narrow LSA, contributing to my detonation issues.
Once the new heads arrives, I'll snap a few pics and post them here. While based on the standard D-Port Pontiac head, these aluminum heads feature a better short turn radius, increased port size while maintaining good port velocity, a modern fast burn combustion chamber and spark plugs relocated nearer to the exhaust valve for a more efficient combustion.
Final compression numbers will come in a bit shy of 10.25:1. Given my altitude, the more efficient chamber and the reduced static and dynamic compression, I will be able to tune this for long cruises on 88 octane and tune at 91 octane for racing and street performance.
Wow, this is a major upgrade, but a needed one based on what you've experienced. Looking forward to hearing how the motor is performing once it's complete. I pray everything goes smooth for you this week.
I hope so too. So far it's been relatively painless.
maybe I missed it, but how are you liking the FiTech? I am thinking about getting the 1200hp power adder for my 406.
It's great. Without that unit I wouldn't be driving the car nearly as much. I drove the car a grand total of about 125 miles last summer. I've put on about 800-1000 miles this summer. Except for some pretty minor tweaking that I've done to optimize the setup, it's self learn features out-did over a year's work of tinkering on the carburetor in about 10 minutes.
If you do go with a FiTech (or other TBI based injection), do yourself a favor and don't even bother with their inline pump or command center fuel system. Go straight to an EFI tank and in-tank pump.
Good suggestion on in-tank pump. Ultimately they're more problem free and less likely to have heat soak issues.
Glad to see the car getting some miles and some attention. Nice build.
Glad to see the car getting some miles and some attention. Nice build.
I already have pretty nice sumped tank with external pump and return. Would i have to ditched that for an EFI tank?
Thanks, once this top-end swap is complete I can start focusing on some of the more nit-picky issues with the car. Getting rid of the stupid side pipes, being first on that growing list.
No, if that is working for you, it should be fine. The only caveat is it needs to be able to deliver 58 psi to the throttle body. If the pump isn't capable of flowing what you need it to at 58 psi, you'll have to change the pump. The FiTech unit as an integrated pump driver which you'll have to change, but that's literally just running and changing out the power wire.
couldnt you just hook the FiTech pump control to the fuel pump relay? Or does the Fitech unit actually control the pump voltage to lower it when its not needed(idle/cruising)?
You could probably do that. The ECU has a pump driver in it, much like the FPDM in late model mustangs. It'll control voltage output when it needs to. Typically however it'll want the pump running a the voltage whereby the pump is flowing enough fuel to handle WOT applications. If for some reason pressure starts to either fall or rise at the throttle body, the ECU will intervene and either increase or lower fuel pump output to compensate.
With that being the case, if you're running a substantial fuel pump, you'd want to make sure your return line is adequate. I had this issue early on when I was trying to utilize an inline setup and the factory return line in my factory tank. At warm idle when fuel requirements were low, I would start getting pressure creep in the system because the return line was incapable of moving the amount of fuel it needed to.
Nice Bird! :beer:
My dad had a stock one long ago.
My dad had a stock one long ago.
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Good looking birds there! Were they both true Trans Am's?
Yes. One bought off the lot in ca in 69 and one ordered and picked up in Detroit in 72. The pic is from 72. My dad sold the 69 soon after then sold the 455 for a down payment on a house.
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