Long tube headers ?

[carguy19]

Heres a little insight.

On a long tube header, PEAK power will be higher for sure. But low end torque will suffer sometimes. You will get a better average gain across the RPM range with a shortie header.

On an all out race car the 5-10 hp @5000-6000 rpm could be the difference between 11.10 and 10.99, but for a street strip car Id do the shorties.

 

[carguy19]

I went with bbk shorty equal length. i dont think that u will loose 50 hp cause of shorty maybe like 3-7 on a tune im guessing.

Agreed... Unless you can some kind of long tube kit that will spray a 50 shot into the motor somehow.

 

[fivestangs]

I think I'll just put my (too small) 1 5/8" primary shorties back on for now and get the car running with the new heads. I was thinking about the big tube shorties, but take a look at this dyno run on Anderson Ford's website: http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.com/dynojet/50-exhaust.html

...the second graph isn't a hp/torque graph but looks to be a hp @ speed (mph) comparison of the 1 3/4" shorty vs a 1 5/8" shorty...shows the big tubes to be worth around 10hp at each point along the graph... doesn't look like it's worth shelling out another $450 (or $550 if I want ceramic coated).

Oh well... I might fight the LT's or just go back to the shorties.... right now, I'm just trying to find the TIME to work on the damn car....

Mark

 

[LEE93COBRA]

I went with bbk shorty equal length. i dont think that u will loose 50 hp cause of shorty maybe like 3-7 on a tune im guessing.

You are going to hate spark plug changes with the equal lengths

 

[tommygun]

long tubes can give you 40hp at some points in the graph, just not peak power numbers.

say at 5500 the long tube on a big motor will be +30-40hp over a shorty, even more prevalent when its on a blower car

 

[5liter]

Two things:

1. BBK headers are great just do not use the supplied header gaskets. They will fail in a few weeks and you will be doing the whole job again.

2. Go with the unequal length shorties. Any minute gain is not worth it when you burn spark plug wires and take half an hour to tighten one side of bolts.

 

[VR93SVT]

spark plug schange is a pain?

 

[biminiLX]

check into Accufab/Pro Mustang's mid-length headers. They make 1 3/4" and even 1 7/8" if asked. Your mid pipe would have to be tweaked obviosly, but a 3" off-road H modded to fit would be the ticket.
On a true 450hp motor, I would never use shorties, but that's me. I can understand the street benefits.
What heads on this 450hp motor? Asking because some heads have wider bolt patterns and you can take advantage of this.
-J

 

[carguy19]

long tubes can give you 40hp at some points in the graph, just not peak power numbers.

say at 5500 the long tube on a big motor will be +30-40hp over a shorty, even more prevalent when its on a blower car

This is a huge exaggeration.

My LX with a 393 picked up 8hp on the engine dyno (not WHP) by going from a equal length JB shortie, to a KOOKs long tube 1 7/8ths. The entire gain was over 5000 rpm.

No header is going to give you 40 hp.

 

[VR93SVT]

Trick flow

 

[tommygun]

This is a huge exaggeration.

My LX with a 393 picked up 8hp on the engine dyno (not WHP) by going from a equal length JB shortie, to a KOOKs long tube 1 7/8ths. The entire gain was over 5000 rpm.

No header is going to give you 40 hp.

so you gained 8hp across the board? no peaks or the long tube never showed more power at xxxx rpm?

I have dyno proof of a gain of 29rwhp (peak) going from shortys to bassani full length headers and it was down 12hp at 3500 but picked up and kept gaining from there. This was on a PS 302cid motor with 7000rpm shift points. If shortys were making so much power dont you think everyone would be using them instead of the hassle of long tubes?

 

[5liter]

It really depends on the engine and header combo, but I do believe big gains can be had with long tubes.:beer:

 

[LEE93COBRA]

so you gained 8hp across the board? no peaks or the long tube never showed more power at xxxx rpm?

I have dyno proof of a gain of 29rwhp (peak) going from shortys to bassani full length headers and it was down 12hp at 3500 but picked up and kept gaining from there. This was on a PS 302cid motor with 7000rpm shift points. If shortys were making so much power dont you think everyone would be using them instead of the hassle of long tubes?

In most cases its a personal sound preference. I have seen and read to many articles showing where there is a less than 15 flywheel hp gain using longtubes over shorties.

Also from the people I know, most do you use shorties over long tubes now. If building an all out race car, then use long tubes. Building a street/strip car, use shorties. Now that there are some big tube shorties are on the scene pretty good, I think you will see less long tubes being used on street cars

 

[93 347 Cobra]

Shorties make slightly less up top and alot less throughout the entire mid-range. Mid-range torque is significantly improved with longtubes. When I went from 1 5/8" Mac equal length shorties to Mac 1 5/8" longtubes the car felt quite a bit peppier around town.

Longtubes were a bitch to install though, some of it was due Mac's shitty fit and finish. Had to jack the motor up and do all kinds of jacking around to get the damn things in also. I was happy at first but now I'm pissed that I didn't save up a little more and get ceramic coated headers. The Macs are all kinds of rusted now.

 

[carguy19]

On my setup that I did the dyno test for my car made only 8 hp at the flywheel more then the shorties I had. The gains were over 5000 rpm, power and torque suffered everywhere below 5000 RPM. This was on a 10.70 NA carburated 393 inch motor car, and with a $1000 set of headers.

Everyones setup is different, but from my actual experiences its not worth the few peak HP. Im going with the Bassani Big tube Shorties on my 93 cobra when I install the blower later this month.

 

[buddha93]

Im going with the Bassani Big tube Shorties on my 93 cobra when I install the blower later this month.

That's what I ended up using and haven't looked back. My setup made 550rwhp with a mild tune and a choked down blower inlet. The quality is really there, not to mention you can't go wrong with the ceramic coating. :thumbsup:

 

[biminiLX]

Trick flow

Twisted Wedge or High Port?

Again, I'd look into the mid-lengths if you don't use long-tubes.

Good luck, car should haul *ss with 450hp.
Mine went 125.5mph with 530hp; I'd bet you could go easy low 11s if its a drag set-up.
-J
:coolman:

 

[biminiLX]

forgot, if this is done during an engine install, longtubes are much easier to install. I'd also recommend high temp copper silicon instead of gaskets, it really works great.

 

[fromme]

I've got BBK LTs and they fit rather well, as far as long tubes go. I just did a clutch swap the other day, and the T-5 came out no problem. Actually getting the bellhousing snaked out between the collectors was the hard part. So once they are in, it's not a huge deal to have them.
Having said that, I hate them, and would never install them on a street car (on the car when I bought it). They hang low and they are in the way when it comes to trans maintenance. The other downside is the O2 sensor placement. It isn't ideal since they are moved farther downstream. But since they are on the car, they are staying, I guess I don't hate them badly enough to do a swap.

 

[PJM99]

another vote for FRPP shorties