Lets talk wheel hop on a TP car (Roush+55D springs)

[Mineral_01']

So I picked up my 2014 GT Track Package car while home on leave and instantly fell in love. What I didn't love was the crazy amount of wheel hop experienced the first time I took it to the track. I am back overseas and researching options to eliminate the "hop".

I want to keep as much of the factory geometry in place with the rear suspension as possible at the same time eliminating the wheel hop. The consensus seems to point at the stock UCA (upper control arm) as the culprit. Having learned that, and my desire to keep factory like geometry/articulation of the rear suspension points me to the Roush wheel hop reduction kit. Would everyone here agree on this decision?

Now lets talk a little more about the Roush product. All the threads on this product say it is to be used with lowering springs because I guess they changed the IC (instant center) and anti-squat geometries (keeping the tires forced down to the pavement) to better benefit lowered cars. My question is will the Brembo50.com 55D springs be enough drop (~1/2") to keep the pinion angle/IC in it's proper specs/articulation like factory?

Yes, I know there are adjustable UCA's out there, but they all have urethane or solid bushings which are a no-go on anything that's going to experience axial and radial forces in my book. I would hate to ruin proper factory suspension articulation with urethane bushings in the wrong place. Is my logic correct here or am I over thinking this?

Any insight on the Roush UCA and 55D springs would be highly appreciated. Oh, and the car's usage would be mainly street, then HPDE track events, and then dragstrip in that order. Thanks

 

[rdplain]

I used the Roush Anti hop UCA on my car with multiple spring combos. Stock Brembo/Track Pack springs, 55D, Boss & finally P's. Worked great on every setup. I switched it out for an adjustable UCA when I did LCA relo brackets. My buddy is now using the Roush on his stock Track Pack car.
There is a thread on here somewhere where the anti squat % is given for the Roush and stock springs, from what I remember it was a very favorable #.

 

[mhyjek]

Kelly from BMR is the guy to talk too plus there is a cool thread whereas somebody videoed the UCA during launch and shifts during the 1/4 mile and it was an eye opener to me at least. But if your getting wheel hop stock that should tell you the factory geometry might not be so perfect?? I have whiteline which is mostly road racing and if you go on Vorshlag you will see people who road race do the UCA, LCA usually adjustable, and watts link as well.

 

[BMR Tech]

So I picked up my 2014 GT Track Package car while home on leave and instantly fell in love. What I didn't love was the crazy amount of wheel hop experienced the first time I took it to the track. I am back overseas and researching options to eliminate the "hop".

I want to keep as much of the factory geometry in place with the rear suspension as possible at the same time eliminating the wheel hop. The consensus seems to point at the stock UCA (upper control arm) as the culprit. Having learned that, and my desire to keep factory like geometry/articulation of the rear suspension points me to the Roush wheel hop reduction kit. Would everyone here agree on this decision?

Now lets talk a little more about the Roush product. All the threads on this product say it is to be used with lowering springs because I guess they changed the IC (instant center) and anti-squat geometries (keeping the tires forced down to the pavement) to better benefit lowered cars. My question is will the Brembo50.com 55D springs be enough drop (~1/2") to keep the pinion angle/IC in it's proper specs/articulation like factory?

Yes, I know there are adjustable UCA's out there, but they all have urethane or solid bushings which are a no-go on anything that's going to experience axial and radial forces in my book. I would hate to ruin proper factory suspension articulation with urethane bushings in the wrong place. Is my logic correct here or am I over thinking this?

Any insight on the Roush UCA and 55D springs would be highly appreciated. Oh, and the car's usage would be mainly street, then HPDE track events, and then dragstrip in that order. Thanks

The Roush UCA is pretty good, for what it's intended purpose is.

Personally, I am very picky about what combinations that I feel comfortable recommending it for.

For example, I don't like the lowered UCA mounting point of the Roush UCA on a lowered car. The lowering of the car already does this....so I like LCA Brackets for IC Change.

Another thing I do not like, is the fact that they use the 8.5" Length UCA instead of the lengthened 11+ UCA, which is 9.5". An inch really does make a big difference, despite what we all try to convince ourselves of.... lol

The longer UCA leads to increased axle stability in every condition. Handling, braking, acceleration, decel, etc.

That being said, MY recommendation when a customer calls with a similar request, is to do the BMR UCA Mount in the lower position.....and a set of LCA.

You keep the OEM NVH level of the UCA, while using a lowered mounting point on the BMR Mount which helps with traction and wheel hop.

Is the OEM UCA better than the Roush, or the BMR? Meh - not really. Can it work well? For many, yes.

My vote is:

UCM002 ($149.95)
TCA032 ($89.95)

Finally - wheel hop is tricky. Sometimes a complete rear suspension will not cure it 100%....and sometimes only (1) upgrade like LCA, will cure it. I cannot promise, ever, that XXXX will 100% rid of wheel hop, unfortunately.

Good luck!

 

[Mineral_01']

I used the Roush Anti hop UCA on my car with multiple spring combos. Stock Brembo/Track Pack springs, 55D, Boss & finally P's. Worked great on every setup. I switched it out for an adjustable UCA when I did LCA relo brackets. My buddy is now using the Roush on his stock Track Pack car.
There is a thread on here somewhere where the anti squat % is given for the Roush and stock springs, from what I remember it was a very favorable #.

Thanks for the reply and insight. Question though, if the Roush UCA was working great with every spring combo you tried, why did you feel the need to change the IC with relocation brackets?

 

[Mineral_01']

Kelly from BMR is the guy to talk too plus there is a cool thread whereas somebody videoed the UCA during launch and shifts during the 1/4 mile and it was an eye opener to me at least. But if your getting wheel hop stock that should tell you the factory geometry might not be so perfect?? I have whiteline which is mostly road racing and if you go on Vorshlag you will see people who road race do the UCA, LCA usually adjustable, and watts link as well.

True, I never looked at it like that, but I believe most of the "hop" comes from the super soft factory bushings? I have watched the video you are talking about and the difference in amazing and we know it makes a huge difference in a straight line. However I wondered what kind of effects it had in the handling department?

 

[Mineral_01']

The Roush UCA is pretty good, for what it's intended purpose is.

Personally, I am very picky about what combinations that I feel comfortable recommending it for.

For example, I don't like the lowered UCA mounting point of the Roush UCA on a lowered car. The lowering of the car already does this....so I like LCA Brackets for IC Change.

Another thing I do not like, is the fact that they use the 8.5" Length UCA instead of the lengthened 11+ UCA, which is 9.5". An inch really does make a big difference, despite what we all try to convince ourselves of.... lol

The longer UCA leads to increased axle stability in every condition. Handling, braking, acceleration, decel, etc.

That being said, MY recommendation when a customer calls with a similar request, is to do the BMR UCA Mount in the lower position.....and a set of LCA.

You keep the OEM NVH level of the UCA, while using a lowered mounting point on the BMR Mount which helps with traction and wheel hop.

Is the OEM UCA better than the Roush, or the BMR? Meh - not really. Can it work well? For many, yes.

My vote is:

UCM002 ($149.95)
TCA032 ($89.95)

Finally - wheel hop is tricky. Sometimes a complete rear suspension will not cure it 100%....and sometimes only (1) upgrade like LCA, will cure it. I cannot promise, ever, that XXXX will 100% rid of wheel hop, unfortunately.

Good luck!

Kelly,

Thank you for the detailed response. You make some excellent points, especially about changing the IC with relocation brackets and not the UCA. So I ask this, from a suspension engineering standpoint, when does it become necessary to change the IC with LCA relocation brackets? Such as, only when lowered xxx inches, or is the factory geometry/IC flawed from the factory?

I want to achieve precise handling and not worried as much about straight line traction. You recommend the urethane UCA and urethane LCA's, just want kind of effect would having must of the axle's mounting points urethane as opposed to rubber? Can it (the axle) still articulate as intended from the factory with urethane bushings with out binding and compromising handling? I appreciate any further knowledge and I am going to look closely at the products you recommended, thanks.

 

[3unn]

I just installed the roush upper on my 2014 track pack car. I had really violent wheel hop. It cured 90% of it and
the last 10% rarely ever happens and is so minor. This is my only mod to the car. It should have been factory. I did notice some gear howl going 60mph but you have to really listen to hear it. So much so that I'm not sure if it was there before.

The best part is it looks 100% factory.

 

[Mineral_01']

I just installed the roush upper on my 2014 track pack car. I had really violent wheel hop. It cured 90% of it and
the last 10% rarely ever happens and is so minor. This is my only mod to the car. It should have been factory. I did notice some gear howl going 60mph but you have to really listen to hear it. So much so that I'm not sure if it was there before.

The best part is it looks 100% factory.

Awesome, thanks for your experience with the Roush piece. I am torn between that and the BMR adjustable UCA now...

 

[Mineral_01']

Kelly,

Made up my mind, bought the BMR adjustable upper control arm and bracket. Thanks for your help. Now just got to decide between 55D springs or the Roush 1" drop rear springs...

 

[BMR Tech]

True, I never looked at it like that, but I believe most of the "hop" comes from the super soft factory bushings?

It is a combination of the super soft bushings, the spring and damper rates, and the instant center/anti-squat location. Any form of improving axle stabilization, and traction, helps with wheel hop.

when does it become necessary to change the IC with LCA relocation brackets? Such as, only when lowered xxx inches, or is the factory geometry/IC flawed from the factory?

On a completely stock ride height car, you will use the LCA Brackets to achieve "aggressive" AS settings. Typically, lowering the UCA about 1/2" to 3/4" - and keeping ther stock Parallel LCA... will do the trick, and be the best all-around IC position for most uses.

On a lowered car, I recommend ONLY using the LCA Brackets to alter IC/AS.

I want to achieve precise handling and not worried as much about straight line traction. You recommend the urethane UCA and urethane LCA's, just want kind of effect would having must of the axle's mounting points urethane as opposed to rubber? Can it (the axle) still articulate as intended from the factory with urethane bushings with out binding and compromising handling?

Yes, it can/will. The degree of articulation at each pivot point is less than what most think. And keep in mind, most people retain the OEM diff bushing...will also aide in articulation.

Kelly,

Made up my mind, bought the BMR adjustable upper control arm and bracket. Thanks for your help. Now just got to decide between 55D springs or the Roush 1" drop rear springs...

Good choice! If you need anything, LMK!

 

[rdplain]

Thanks for the reply and insight. Question though, if the Roush UCA was working great with every spring combo you tried, why did you feel the need to change the IC with relocation brackets?

I plan on getting a 1 piece drive shaft in the near future, so I wanted the adjust-ability... And based upon the 3 sets of springs I have gone through, I can't leave well enough alone!