Procharger.....No, Trilogy
Arrrggggggggggggggg
oke:
You guys are funny :lol1:
Arrrggggggggggggggg
oke: You guys are funny :lol1:
Lets Argue
- Thread starter rocknrod
- Start date
Let's not.
There is a small handfull of Marauder owners working their assess of to organize the third annual meet...Marauderville III. The Motor City Marauders are hosting this event at the Woodward Dream Cruise this August. An event like this requires enormous man hours to plan, and significant financial resources. All this petty arguing, although amongst a small group, is more than enough to attract the attention of our supporting vendors. In the end, this bickering just hurts the national membership when vendors decide to "pull out" because they do not want to be involved with a bunch of arguing fools. (not pointing anyone out here, or flaming...I've been in the arguements myself too I'm embarassed to say).
So, whether you are a Marauder owner or not. Or whether you want to come to MV-III or not, I respectfully ask that you please discontinue pouring gas on an already unfortunate situation.
I sincerely hope you understand the importance of this request and can honor it. It would be greatly appreciated.
There is a small handfull of Marauder owners working their assess of to organize the third annual meet...Marauderville III. The Motor City Marauders are hosting this event at the Woodward Dream Cruise this August. An event like this requires enormous man hours to plan, and significant financial resources. All this petty arguing, although amongst a small group, is more than enough to attract the attention of our supporting vendors. In the end, this bickering just hurts the national membership when vendors decide to "pull out" because they do not want to be involved with a bunch of arguing fools. (not pointing anyone out here, or flaming...I've been in the arguements myself too I'm embarassed to say).
So, whether you are a Marauder owner or not. Or whether you want to come to MV-III or not, I respectfully ask that you please discontinue pouring gas on an already unfortunate situation.
I sincerely hope you understand the importance of this request and can honor it. It would be greatly appreciated.
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Do you work at FP&L ? :lol: Thats an inside funny.
I can say as a NewB it is seriously rediculous.
I can say as a NewB it is seriously rediculous.
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Yep, to some extent that's exactly what it is.
But I hope you understand that it is not Dave's intention, nor mine, to come over here to SVTP and try to "control" things or shut anyone down from expressing thier opinions. That's not only not possible, but not the wise thing to do. We are only looking to see if we can ease the intensity a little in the name of all those Marauder owners out there that have nothing to do with the conflicts but stand to suffer the consequences should support for the national meet begin to fracture. Nothing more, nothing less.
I think Dave and I have also been a little "outspoken" in the past ourselves. So, in addition to asking others for thier understanding, we are also trying hard to lead by example. Sometimes its not easy, but it is the right thing to do given the circumstances.
I'm sorry if anyone is offended that we have asked for a little restraint.
But I hope you understand that it is not Dave's intention, nor mine, to come over here to SVTP and try to "control" things or shut anyone down from expressing thier opinions. That's not only not possible, but not the wise thing to do. We are only looking to see if we can ease the intensity a little in the name of all those Marauder owners out there that have nothing to do with the conflicts but stand to suffer the consequences should support for the national meet begin to fracture. Nothing more, nothing less.
I think Dave and I have also been a little "outspoken" in the past ourselves. So, in addition to asking others for thier understanding, we are also trying hard to lead by example. Sometimes its not easy, but it is the right thing to do given the circumstances.
I'm sorry if anyone is offended that we have asked for a little restraint.
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On and on and on.............................
No it's only and "inside funny" but a fact of life in the internet car world.
People sometimes take the mods more serious than the whole car experience?
For me it has always been about the "new" friends I have made than the preformance of the car :shrug:
So inside or outside its all good? :bash:
rocknrod said:
No it's only and "inside funny" but a fact of life in the internet car world.
People sometimes take the mods more serious than the whole car experience?
For me it has always been about the "new" friends I have made than the preformance of the car :shrug:
So inside or outside its all good? :bash:
MikesMerc said:
Very true. I'm with Mike on this one politics or not. Whats the point of a thread like this anyway? Frankly, I'm very sick of hearing about it all.
Big Dog also has a good perspective...it's about the whole car experience. I'd rather be a Marauder enthusiast, than a bullshit enthusiast.
-Mat
here's my viewpoint.......while I agree that some arguments get too much out of hand, some debating can be good to bring some things to light. But as far as vendors pulling out, I don't agree with that (sorry Mike). As long as they're making money, or their is the potential to make money, then they will be there. it's their biz. We don't work for them, but they're supposed to be working for us. It's our dollars that support them, not the other way around. I'm not knocking vendors in general at all. however, internet boards should work in favor of the consumer also, and not just the vendors as is the case sometimes.
The vendors should know that whatever they do (good or bad) can effect their business and their standing on the internet boards, and that in itself will motivate them to treat their internet customers right. And if the vendor(s) in question are upstanding and honest business men, then they will not have any problem with that, and with people on these car boards being allowed to speak their mind. you can't please all the people all the time, and any good vendor will know that. but again, I do agree that some arguments get out of hand, and too personal. Unfortunately that's still better than total sensorship for the sake of protecting the vendors to an extent that NOTHING negative can be said about them at all even if it's true. So IMO we have the lesser of two evils here.However, there seems to be those who just like to start arguments simply for the sake of being entertained rather than to bring to light any facts. And that's too bad that some people are like that.
The vendors should know that whatever they do (good or bad) can effect their business and their standing on the internet boards, and that in itself will motivate them to treat their internet customers right. And if the vendor(s) in question are upstanding and honest business men, then they will not have any problem with that, and with people on these car boards being allowed to speak their mind. you can't please all the people all the time, and any good vendor will know that. but again, I do agree that some arguments get out of hand, and too personal. Unfortunately that's still better than total sensorship for the sake of protecting the vendors to an extent that NOTHING negative can be said about them at all even if it's true. So IMO we have the lesser of two evils here.However, there seems to be those who just like to start arguments simply for the sake of being entertained rather than to bring to light any facts. And that's too bad that some people are like that.
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BillyGman said:
WOW! Well-said, Billy! I hope every vendor out there reads your post!!! :beer:
Me too Chuck, but I don't think it will make much difference unless the owners/administrators as well as the moderators of the board(s) in question adopt this veiwpoint also, and are willing to allow their board members the freedom to hold the vendors accountable for their business practices. Unless they do, then some boards will always be much more of a benefit to their vendors than they are to their members who help to line the vendors pockets.tallboy said:
BillyGman said:
Billy,
When it comes to vendors pulling out there is nothing here for you to agree or not agree with. The fact of the matter is that both Dave and I have taken phone calls from vendors doing exactly that....PULLING OUT!!
That's not a guess. That's not what you, or I, or anyone "thinks" might or might not happen....it IS HAPPENING!
And, for your information, the vendors pulling out, or considering pulling out, have NOTHING to do with the current arguements at hand at all. Its about LARGER vendors that aren't even on MM.net who are concerned about the viability of our group as a whole.
Sadly, you all missed the point of my post. This isn't about freedom of speech for those who want to express their satisfaction or displeasure with a vendor, its about having a group of people who spend more time ripping on one another than organizing events and having that behavior turn off NEW LARGER sponsors.
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And you don't think that the fact that Marauders aren't being produced anymore, nor that they were produced in limited numbers in the two years that they even were produced has anything to do with that? Well I definately think that's a factor. There are Mustang owners on this board who are constantly going at it, but they still have plenty of vendor support because of their numbers, and because of the fact that Mustangs are still being produced. So there's $$ to be made for the vendors.MikesMerc said:
Marauders on the other hand are a whole different story, so that has to be a factor. It sounds Like yu're a bit frustrated because of all the work that you're puting into MVIII, and I can understand that, but there's still the $$ factor when it comes to vendors, and you can't rule out that they're going to consider how many Marauders there are versus other cars. If they believe that there's enough $$ for them to make, then they will look for reasons to participate, and if they think that there isn't, then they will look for reasons NOT to participate. And if they look hard enough at any group, I'm sure that they can find reasons for and against their support. The potential $$ to be made is always a deciding factor.
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MikesMerc said:
Mike I have to agree w/ Billy on this one again. In fact, I'd like to know what vendor is giving you a hard time so i dont buy their product. Thats how you control the vendor! Not by playing politics.
BillyGman said:
Well, no shit Billy!
And that's exactly why our group needs to be a cut above rest. The very fact the MM is a dead car makes it an uphill battle to get any support at all. That's why its even more important that we show them that we are a serious hardcore group of enthusiasts that are so well organized that it makes a "statement" at the events we put on. That's the only thing that would encourage some the vendors we are working with want to help our group at all. Sniping, back biting, and bashing shows them we are NOT a group worth investing in.
BTW, remember, this is support that does not fund a website or Dave or I personally. This is funding for MV-III!!
Defyant said:
*sigh* Go ahead, just continue to drive the nails in the coffin of MVIII even harder with this attitiude.
Read Billys post above...the Marauder is DEAD. You threatening to not buy products related to a DEAD car isn't much of a threat at all. It only demonstrates a bad attitiude and lack of understanding the big picture. Furthermore, now that you feel the need to get into "threats" the last thing I can do is mention who is talking to us. Good job!
I will say this. Some of these "vendors" we are talking to make NO products for the Marauder at all! None, zero, zip! We're talking about a completey different kind of CORPORATE SPONSORSHIP here. So your "threat" is pretty much harmless to them. Your attitude, however, clearly demonstrates that we might not be the kind of group they will want to support.
Well, since you guys think arguing, sniping, and bashing is more important to MV-III I say screw it. Its apparent you guys aren't behind the event and that your taste for bashing and arguing is just more important than pulling off a great national event. And if we have to continue to pull content from our event do to less funding, I'll be sure to point the innocent members to you and Billy so you can explain to them how your personal self interests were far more important than putting on a good event.
BTW, I'm not saying your posts in particular directly influence the final decision for funding. But the constant arguing, the 600 post supercharger war threads, and the 5000 view vendor bashing threads do attract attention.
What's truly sad is that Dave and i weren't really asking for much here. We certainly weren't asking for censorship...I made that clear in another thread. We support people posting about their vendor and product experiences whether they be good or bad. We were only asking to have the constant bashing and arguing toned down a litte. But, even this little request seems to be too much to ask of some people who apparently get off on it.
What a shame
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I think you're overreacting here Mike. I previously agreed with part of what you were saying. But there are other issues that this whole topic ties into than just this year's MVIII event. You speak of a bigger picture, but there's also a bigger picture than just MVIII also. I appreciate, and thank you for your hard work for this upcoming event, but after it's all over, there will still be the potential politics, and consumer/vendor issues with internet car boards in general, and that's what I was talking about. So take it easy there big guy.
No, I'm afraid I'm not going to take it easy. Dave and I have serious time spent on this effort and until you've been here doing it, you simply have no idea what its like. We likely have burned a few hundred hours each on this thing which is a lot of time away from our families. How much personal time have you sacrificed for the good of the national group Billy?
Furthermore, after taking time to develop and presentation and sit down with the marketing folks at Mercury (yes, that's right Mercury), we don't take lightly to folks that don't want tounderstand what we are trying to pull off. Dave, Jerry, and I sat in the Trilogy board room in front of no less than 10 others including Steve Bab****, Ned Nuss, and the main marketing guy from Mercury in an effort to secure support. That is serious shit my friend!
We are also entertaining corporate sponsorship from the Detroit Metro Mercury Dealers, Eaton, and a few others. This is the type of sponsorship that goes beyond MV-III.
So, needless to say, Dave and I are under a tiny bit of pressure to present our national group as one worthy of support. And, because it is indeed support for a DEAD car, saying that its been a tough road is an understatement.
All we hoped for was simple response like "Hey, Dave and Mike, no sweat, we'll tone it down a bit." Instead all we got on this thread was argument. Just another argument. LOL...kinda par for the course I guess.
Furthermore, after taking time to develop and presentation and sit down with the marketing folks at Mercury (yes, that's right Mercury), we don't take lightly to folks that don't want tounderstand what we are trying to pull off. Dave, Jerry, and I sat in the Trilogy board room in front of no less than 10 others including Steve Bab****, Ned Nuss, and the main marketing guy from Mercury in an effort to secure support. That is serious shit my friend!
We are also entertaining corporate sponsorship from the Detroit Metro Mercury Dealers, Eaton, and a few others. This is the type of sponsorship that goes beyond MV-III.
So, needless to say, Dave and I are under a tiny bit of pressure to present our national group as one worthy of support. And, because it is indeed support for a DEAD car, saying that its been a tough road is an understatement.
All we hoped for was simple response like "Hey, Dave and Mike, no sweat, we'll tone it down a bit." Instead all we got on this thread was argument. Just another argument. LOL...kinda par for the course I guess.
Mike, Mike, Mike, since you're telling me and others here what we should've said, let me point out to you that you're asking us to back off from arguments, while you are headstrong engaged in one here yourself. Where's the example my friend? You're not setting too much of one here. You could've simply said...."yeah, I see your point Billy about the big picture, but just please keep in mind how hard Dave, myself and others are working on this MVIII event, and consider your tone in the near future, okay?"...and I would've agreed. but instead you had to take the Low road, and go head to head with me. Join the club. So it takes two Mike.MikesMerc said:
You claim that us Marauder owners should be a "cut above the rest" in order to get vendor support, but that just isn't going to happen because we're NO better or worse than any other internet car enthusiast group.We are all human, and for us to even pretend or think that we are a cut above the rest would be pompous, and unrealistic at best. Furthermore, if any vendor expects us to be a cut above the rest, then they're simply looking for a reason NOT to participate. If they really want to take a close look at us and scrutinize us, then they should (and likely would) take a look at how much money many of us have spent on our Marauders purchasing go-fast parts from VENDORS. (OOOOOOPPS, there's that word again!!!) I've sepnt $10,000 on my Marauder for vendor parts alone, and there are many other Marauder owners who have done the same.And that's over and above the $30K we've spent for the car to begin with.
Any group that doesn't get into an occasional heated debate about their cars aren't really very passionate about them, and therefore probably haven't spent much money on hi-perf parts they've purchased from VENDORS. And if the vendors in question have any concern or experience with hi-perf car enthusiast groups, then they would NOT overlook that. Furthermore, just because we go at it from time to time on the internet boards, doesn't neccessarily mean that we won't be able to mellow out and keep the peace for just a couple days at a public annual meet.
Again, thanks for your sincere and fantastic efforts for MVIII Michael. I'm sure that it's a colossal undertaking.
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Nice try to turn this one around on me Billy, but its not going to work.
Read my very first post. All I did was ask very nicley for a little restraint and you took exception to it. Plain and simple.
Don't bother with your compliments of the efforts Dave and I have put in. I know where you stand.
Enjoy your response and make it a good one, I'm off this sad thread.
Read my very first post. All I did was ask very nicley for a little restraint and you took exception to it. Plain and simple.
Don't bother with your compliments of the efforts Dave and I have put in. I know where you stand.
Enjoy your response and make it a good one, I'm off this sad thread.
And you wonder why some people don't want to get involved? Nice attitude Mike. Ofcourse by now the "Let's argue" title of this thread has been fulfilled.You can't instruct people not to argue when you yourself are the biggest contributor. :rollseyesMikesMerc said:
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