lakewood traction bars???

[honda hunter]

Indeed, they should have sent you bolts/nuts. Like mentioned above, the snub needs to be forced against the leafs agressively to make good contact. This is why many use shims...

This is the way your snub should look when finished.

Yours is on the spring. The other guy said that would break something??

 

[wigginwilly00]

Yours is on the spring. The other guy said that would break
something??

You won't break anything unless you a pushing serious power.. And more than likely it will be the bolts or nuts waaaaaaay before the springs..
There is at least two people running Lakewoods that posted in this thread and that are running big horsepower and running great times. Both running shims.. You don't want any play when that rear end starts to twist. FYI-for better nub placement, you can also use big washers to help out....

 

[02_Lightning]

Indeed, they should have sent you bolts/nuts. The nub needs to be forced against the leafs or bracket(if it will reach) agressively to make good contact. I could not get mine to reach any further than what is seen in the pic.

This is the way your nub should look when finished. Just make sure the nub is a little more centered on the leaf than what mine is in the pic. I had to readjust it.

Hnda Hunter - YES, THIS IS INDEED WRONG. You DO NOT want your bars to look like this. This is exactly how people rip out rearends in Lightnings. That yellow snubber should be NOWHERE NEAR the leaf. You must push the traction bar forward (on the truck) to the point where that yellow snubber is on the LEAF SPRING PERCH. Having it set up as the picture shows is a recipe for disaster as it still allows the rearend to literally wrap around itself. This picture proves that it has no hard stop as a pivot point. You cannot have what this picture shows or you are asking for trouble.
Everyone is confusing the term breaking... I am not talk about the bars breaking. I am speaking of the rearend breaking and causing major damage.

 

[honda hunter]

Great info in this thread. I hope to get all the parts one day. lakewood is playing games. If these slappers stop wheel hop Ill be golden. Its KILLING me at the track.

 

[Dr. Matt]

02 Lightning I'm curious where you got the idea that slappers contacting the spring right behind the spring eye will cause damage. Have you ever seen this happen? At what power level? On what kind of vehicle?

I've used slappers on several vehicles over the years and it has never been a problem to have the contact point right behind the spring eye. Due to the physics involved, the farther foreward the snubber contacts the vehicle, the less spring wrap, the less rear end rise, and the less instant tire plant. The shorter the bar, the more potential for spring wrap and rear tire plant with subsequent suspension rise, then unloading, spinning and rehooking. Ideally a slapper bar will be the correct length for the vehicle and it's power level but the only way to find that is with trial and error. It agree it should ideally be at least long enough to hit the spring eye, but right behind it is OK for most.

At some point it is possible to overpower a set of Lakewoods but I'm not there yet running mine like the picture above with 1.60 60' times. As power increases, extending the bar to hit the frame say 3' in front of the spring eye would allow a slapper bar to work in even more powerfull vehicles by decreasing the plant of the rear tire and allowing a less rise without wasting engine power to lift the front or rear of the vehicle. Too long of slappers (like extending them to contact near the fron suspension) would not aid in traction like shorter slappers actually do and would use torque to lift the front of the vehicle rather than use it to push the vehicle forward.

My point is, a set of lakewoods contacting behind the spring eye is fine in 99% of the L's on the road. Those approaching 600 RWHP or more are going to either need a set of long bars, or a custom set of slappers that contact farther forward than the spring eye to control wheel hop. I dont think the OP is making the kind of power that will have problems with a set of Lakewoods. If they are too short you will know when you lauch, hook the rear of the truck rises and you momentarily loose traction.

 

[wigginwilly00]

Hnda Hunter - YES, THIS IS INDEED WRONG. Everyone is confusing the term breaking... I am not talk about the bars breaking. I am speaking of the rearend breaking and causing major damage.

Interesting......

Well, Im not here to argue any situation with anyone because arguing on the internet is like pissing in the wind. It's quite pointless. However, I can tell you that I personally have ran great track times with the way that these were installed. My truck made over 500rwhp with great 60's and ZERO issues..Period Maybe your quick to judge the way someone else does something because the instructions are much different or you heard it was the wrong way.. The plain and simple fact is that this has been proven for me as well other Lightning owners. I'm only here to share my previous experiences that worked for me with other members. Sorry, didnt mean to get your panties all in a wad.

02 Lightning I'm curious where you got the idea that slappers contacting the spring right behind the spring eye will cause damage. Have you ever seen this happen? At what power level? On what kind of vehicle?

I'm curious to know who this has happened to as well. I don't recall anyone with a Lightning having this issue...

 

[honda hunter]

What I dont understand is lets remove the dangerous aspect of positioning of the snub. With that said what difference does it make where the snubber is?

 

[honda hunter]

You won't break anything unless you a pushing serious power.. And more than likely it will be the bolts or nuts waaaaaaay before the springs..
There is at least two people running Lakewoods that posted in this thread and that are running big horsepower and running great times. Both running shims.. You don't want any play when that rear end starts to twist. FYI-for better nub placement, you can also use big washers to help out....

Heres something crazy, could i just use something solid to replace the snub?

 

[02_Lightning]

What I dont understand is lets remove the dangerous aspect of positioning of the snub. With that said what difference does it make where the snubber is?

The difference is if you are making the snubber (yellow piece) contact the spring (flexible) under load or contact the leaf spring perch (hard point that does not move).
The truck I saw axle wrap/breakage in was a 99 Lightning that had just a 2lb pulley, small shot of nitrous, and a tune (this was back in 2000). He was running a slick with a DS loop and was getting decent bite that day. His bars were too far back - similar to the picture that I said was wrong - and he had extreme axle wrap that I witnessed on a few runs - even have video of it somewhere. After a few passes that way, he launched one final time and it looked like the leaf was trying to wrap around itself (from front to back) and then the rear let go. This was only on a high 12 second truck with OK bite. If you research Lakewoods, you will see that the optimum setting for safety and performance is looking it at the spring perch. It is not impossible to mount them that way, but it takes some effort. Do not just 'slap' them up in there in any old place because it does matter.

 

[MJG]

^^^^ well give us tips on how to make them reach the perch, because I've tried everything and they do not make it.

 

[wigginwilly00]

The difference is if you are making the snubber (yellow piece) contact the spring (flexible) under load or contact the leaf spring perch (hard point that does not move).
The truck I saw axle wrap/breakage in was a 99 Lightning that had just a 2lb pulley, small shot of nitrous, and a tune (this was back in 2000). He was running a slick with a DS loop and was getting decent bite that day. His bars were too far back - similar to the picture that I said was wrong - and he had extreme axle wrap that I witnessed on a few runs - even have video of it somewhere. After a few passes that way, he launched one final time and it looked like the leaf was trying to wrap around itself (from front to back) and then the rear let go. This was only on a high 12 second truck with OK bite. If you research Lakewoods, you will see that the optimum setting for safety and performance is looking it at the spring perch. It is not impossible to mount them that way, but it takes some effort. Do not just 'slap' them up in there in any old place because it does matter.

Buddy, I'm here to tell you that if you use shims and washers so that the snub makes hard contact with the leaf spring, you wont get much axel wrap if any. Infact this work quite well. More than likely your buddy didn't install these with like we are suggesting. Shims are needed, as well as large washers...

 

[honda hunter]

Buddy, I'm here to tell you that if you use shims and washers so that the snub makes hard contact with the leaf spring, you wont get much axel wrap if any. Infact this work quite well. More than likely your buddy didn't install these with like we are suggesting. Shims are needed, as well as large washers...

But like I said before what makes one way better than the other danger aspect aside.

 

[02_Lightning]

But like I said before what makes one way better than the other danger aspect aside.[/QUOTE

Ever see the trick where you take a wooden pencil and shake it by the eraser? In this example, the pencil looks like it is bending in half. That is similar to what the traction bars would do if you you mounted them behind the spring perch and on the spring itself. The spring is not a hard point, it flexes like the eraser does and allows things to move. Very bad for the rear. You want this bar to make contact with the spring perch.

OK, everyone is asking how you make it do this. First, do not cut/trim the yellow snubber (hard plastic piece). Mount it to the bar. Put the bar on the rearend and install your plates/bolts/nuts loosely. Push the bar all the way forward on the truck to where the yellow snubber will meet the spring perch and rotate the bar to where it makes contact. Once it does, tighten up the mounting bolts. Easy. You will notice that if driving on the street, you will have a stiffer ride. Why, you ask? Because you have eliminated the flex/give of the leaf spring.

Honda Hunter - I recommend that you mount yours in this fashion to avoid any future problems. I have had different tuners watch my truck launch and they have all asked how I did that with just Lakewoods and an otherwise stock suspension. It lifts like it should and has worked well in providing consistent 12.20 times at 113mph. Video shows that the rearend is squarely planted into the ground and the truck lifts and goes.

 

[Dr. Matt]

I agree that the guy who was getting wheelhop clearly must have had the bars installed wrong. My truck deadhooks with 30" slicks, no wheelhop whatsoever, and has run dozens of mid 11's with 60' times as low as 1.60.

If you mounted the bars as far back as possible so the snubber actually contacted several inches behind the spring eye you could get the problem you describe, however with the snubber right behind the eye the short distance shown in the above post there will be no way the spring is going to flex into a negative arch. If it does flex, you are not going to see a negative arch in the front of the spring but rather an increased arch in the rear of the spring causing the rear of the truck to rise.

If the slapper is not shimmed correctly this will cause problems. No clearance will cause a rough ride since the front half of the spring no longer functions and you are forcing only the rear half to do the job, more than doubling the spring rate. Too much clearance and you get axle wrap, just like a vehicle without slappers and can cause the rear of the truck to jump up on launch and bounce, risking broken parts as your friend had. with 1/2" of clearance you get near stock ride on small bumps as well as good launch characteristics. As power goes up, reducing the gap helps launch. Increasing gap helps ride quality.

 

[wigginwilly00]

But like I said before what makes one way better than the other danger aspect aside.

That's a fair question to ask.. I think it would be interesting if someone posted a thread on both installations and did a comparison with the same truck. I think anytime you mod a truck, everyone has their own opinions and testimony. It's obvious that lakewood designed these with installing them on the perch. You can't go wrong with installing it on the perch if you can. However, not every vehicles suspension loads the same as their cookie cutter intructions allow. I'm almost certain that one of these ways will launch these trucks better than the other.

Btw, If your waiting on nuts and bolts you may want to upgrade or inquire what exactly they are sending you. I know that for awhile they were sending out substandard(nuts/bolts) hardware. Many people opt for the extra security of knowing that they aren't gona bust loose on you at the track.

 

[honda hunter]

Whats drivability like with no gap? Would you say harsh?

I finaly got everything. The bolts arent impressive as mentioned but the brackets arent bad.

 

[wigginwilly00]

Whats drivability like with no gap? Would you say harsh?

I finaly got everything. The bolts arent impressive as mentioned but the
brackets arent bad.

Mine rode a little rough going over speed bumps but, was tolerable....
I think Matt hit the nail on the head with this explanation.

No clearance will cause a rough ride since the front half of the spring no longer functions and you are forcing only the rear half to do the job, more than doubling the spring rate. Too much clearance and you get axle wrap, just like a vehicle without slappers and can cause the rear of the truck to jump up on launch and bounce, risking broken parts as your friend had. with 1/2" of clearance you get near stock ride on small bumps as well as good launch characteristics. As power goes up, reducing the gap helps launch. Increasing gap helps ride quality.

 

[honda hunter]

Mine rode a little rough going over speed bumps but, was tolerable....
I think Matt hit the nail on the head with this explanation.

I just installed mine. Due to the rain I cant launch. My bassani exhaust got in the way (its under the perch) so I had to do it the other way. I decided to go with no gap (thats just how I roll). Ride isnt as rough as I thought. Sometimes it feels bouncy and normal driving it fills stiff. Once again thx everyone for all the slapper info I couldve ever hoped for. Search yielded nothing this in dept.

 

[wigginwilly00]

Damn, man you don't mess around.:beer: Yeah, I would have had the same issue with my Bassanni as well... You can see it would have blocked the bars from going any further forward in this pic.

 

[honda hunter]

Damn, man you don't mess around.:beer: Yeah, I would have had the same issue with my Bassanni as well... You can see it would have blocked the bars from going any further forward in this pic.

Got bored so I said screw it lol. Cant wait to try them out. My wheel hop was horrific so Ill know if it made a difference from the first launch.
Im still having a hard time understanding how these things will work but we shall see.