how much hp does 1lb of boost add?

[mlccar]

Double Or Triple Your Horsepower

Double or triple the horsepower of a "stock based engine?" This means getting 640 bhp (320*2) out of a 2001 Cobra? I am sceptical as to how long this motor will last. And unless you are drag racing, why? A good rule of thumb (try it it is very close) to estimate 060 times is to take the curb weight in lbs, divive by bhp and then by 2.0. This gives a 0-60 time for the 2001 cobra of 3450/320/2=5.39 seconds- very close to the Ford qoute of 5.4 seconds. Now if i had 640 bhp this would be 2.7 seconds. No, this car without any suspension and tire modifications would still be a 4 second car, albiet one that uses lots of rubber. so if I really wanted to use a 640 bhp car and was not interested in racing (and not interested in killing people on the highway), I would have to extensively modify it to use the Horsepower. I suspect many who are in this extreme horespower race do not make these mods. W/O therse mods the car is dangerous. My point is that to get to a well behaved (joke) 640 hp car I am probably going to invest 10k in engine mods and another 15k in brake and suspension mods. I am not a Corvette fan (but willl take one as a gift) but for this kind of money go buy a 500 bhp Corvettte designed stock to handle the power.

 

[A Robinson.]

I wouldn't dream of trying to take the title away from you. I'm smarter than that, AND I’m not the one who spent close to a day scrambling like hell to come up with SOMETHING to support his position ... and then misinterpreted what he found.


No shit! WOW! Let me write that down. You REALLY ARE the Oracle of Automovedom!


Gee, isn't this is the first mention YOU’VE made of shaft speed? I noted compressor RPM as a factor some time ago. Moron.


I presume you meant “case” when you said “cover.” Gee, again, I think I ALSO mentioned that's why blowers come in different SIZES for different applications. Retard.


OMFG!!! Another pearl of A(sswipe) Robinson’s wisdom!
:lol: :lol: PLEASE, OH PLEASE explain to us mere mortals why it is impossible to measure shaft speed -
Right after you explain how it is that every blower’s max efficiency is reached at 25 psi boost.



Hey Dumptruck! Pressure ratio is NOT THE SAME as boost level, you Neanderthal. Pressure ratio is internal to the compressor, whereas we measure BOOST level in the manifold. The same compressor producing the SAME pressure ratio at the same RPM will produce DIFFERENT boost levels in different size applications. DUMBASS!!!


Boost is CREATED by engine load??? BAWAWAWAWAWA! That entire statement is a distortion based on a complete misunderstanding of the dynamics involved. You have the cart before the horse. See my comment above. Insect.


Well, well, well. I see you FINALLY found your way to my website. How long did it take you, Einstein? Don’t bother to answer that. Just tell me, Shit-for-brains, Mr. Armadaness, just HOW MUCH power do you think I should be trying to make with a stock bottom end consisting of hypereutectic pistons and powdered rods? Come on. This isn’t a trick question. Enlighten me, Dickless. No. Again, don’t bother to answer that one. I personally don’t care what you’d advise. You’ve got your head so far up your ass, you’ll never see the light of day, so I won’t be looking for any advice from the likes of you.


Hey, Shit-for-brains, let me make this perfectly clear. I don’t give a flying rip HOW FAST your goddamned SHITBOX DSM is OR how much power it makes. Is that perfectly clear? Go play “My dick’s bigger than your dick” with somebody who gives a shit.



How long did it take you to find a map with practically NO data on it??? Oh, never mind. Here’s a COMPLETE compressor map douche bag I’ve circled the relevant information for you take a day or two and try to figure it out ...

And after you figure it out, do us both a favor - just DISAPPEAR. You're not worth any more of my time.

T-

Nice, just another long winded idiot. Lets see you don't know what a compressor cover is. Nor can you cant read a compressor map. when you can read the compressor map I posted and answer one simple question maybe ill continue to entertain your babbling. Have fun with your 4.6L supercharged 430HP V8

Conversation over.

 

[Taz]

...

Conversation over.

THANK GOD!

Cover up your ineptitude, misconceptions, and failure to answer direct questions ANY way you must. JUST END THIS MIND-NUMBING DIALOGUE.

I've had more intelligent conversations with rocks and I'm tired of your skirting the issues and refusing to respond directly to my questions, much less technical points.
:rollseyes

Good-FREAKING-bye, MORON!

Take your SHITBOX DSM with you and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!
:nonono:


T-

 

[A Robinson.]

Boost is CREATED by engine load??? BAWAWAWAWAWA!

I had to quote this because its just to damn funny. :lol:

If boost is not created by engine load then push the clutch in, give it some gas and see how much boost you get. Oh and just so you know what a *compressor cover is* its that little thingy that (covers) the compressor wheel often referred to as a compressor housing.


To the original poster:

I apologize for cluttering this thread with this back and forth banter with T-aZZ. The simple answer is between 10-13 psi for every pound of boost. Tuning charged air temps and supporting mods will +/- this number by 1-2 HP depending on the above stated conditions.

Most of my comments are based on using a turbocharger which is a tad different in its operation than a roots blower however the methodology is pretty much the same. Roots blowers run much higher charged air temps so the gains will be a little different from a centrifugal blower or a turbo. If you have not already i would suggest picking up a larger exchanger and reservoir if you plan to pulley your 03.

 

[Taz]

Why don't you slither on back over to the New Edge forum and laugh at all the guys over there running 6 - 10 lbs of boost and making 4xx HP. I'm sure they've all got a really WARM reception waiting for you.

EDIT: Never mind. I just invited them over here. I thought a few fresh perspectives might help.

:lol1:

 

[9T5SVT]

Thanks for uh, answering my questions guys. I didn't mean to start such a big arguement. I was talking about a pretty much stock 03Cobra, then adding a 2000 Lightning pulley that adds about 2lbs, and you guys are up tp 25lbs of boost now.....yeah, i think the variables would be a little different! For all those that said it's about 10-13hp, thanks, thats what i was looking for. I'll know for sure either on the dyno or at the track. Thanks.

Steven

 

[monstermach]

you didnt start a big argument, i believe the relativley small size of their penis' did. anybody ever find out who's got the bigger truck yet? arguing on the internet over technical data and theory is about the most retarded thing ever. got search? yeah, me too, and him, and him, and him. all that shit and nobody really said anything that would help develop this guy's understanding of what he was doing to his car, the thread was his until it got highjacked, remember? maybe if they got the sand out of their cooters they might be able to merge some legitimate info into a state of understanding. and another thing guys, if you use the dictionary to find big words, please take the extra few seconds to learn its actual function in context. some of that shit makes absolutly no sense at all. sometimes trying to tell everyone what you think you know only serves to explain exactly what you dont.

 

[cKjuiced]

you didnt start a big argument, i believe the relativley small size of their penis' did. anybody ever find out who's got the bigger truck yet? arguing on the internet over technical data and theory is about the most retarded thing ever. got search? yeah, me too, and him, and him, and him. all that shit and nobody really said anything that would help develop this guy's understanding of what he was doing to his car, the thread was his until it got highjacked, remember? maybe if they got the sand out of their cooters they might be able to merge some legitimate info into a state of understanding. and another thing guys, if you use the dictionary to find big words, please take the extra few seconds to learn its actual function in context. some of that shit makes absolutly no sense at all. sometimes trying to tell everyone what you think you know only serves to explain exactly what you dont.

I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but I beleive I pretty much explained it as simple as it can get. I don't use search, I speak of relative facts from expirience and study. As for the other two it turned into a flame war of unbalanced proportions.

Thanks for uh, answering my questions guys. I didn't mean to start such a big arguement. I was talking about a pretty much stock 03Cobra, then adding a 2000 Lightning pulley that adds about 2lbs, and you guys are up tp 25lbs of boost now.....yeah, i think the variables would be a little different! For all those that said it's about 10-13hp, thanks, thats what i was looking for. I'll know for sure either on the dyno or at the track. Thanks.

Welcome man, as for the 25 boost I wanted to explain to those other two that it's not all about boost. It's not about how much power you can create, it's all about having the right combination of internals to maximize your engine's performance without overworking any internals of pushing it to the limit. Big HP with little effort is the goal.

 

[cKjuiced]

Double or triple the horsepower of a "stock based engine?" This means getting 640 bhp (320*2) out of a 2001 Cobra? I am sceptical as to how long this motor will last. And unless you are drag racing, why? A good rule of thumb (try it it is very close) to estimate 060 times is to take the curb weight in lbs, divive by bhp and then by 2.0. This gives a 0-60 time for the 2001 cobra of 3450/320/2=5.39 seconds- very close to the Ford qoute of 5.4 seconds. Now if i had 640 bhp this would be 2.7 seconds. No, this car without any suspension and tire modifications would still be a 4 second car, albiet one that uses lots of rubber. so if I really wanted to use a 640 bhp car and was not interested in racing (and not interested in killing people on the highway), I would have to extensively modify it to use the Horsepower. I suspect many who are in this extreme horespower race do not make these mods. W/O therse mods the car is dangerous. My point is that to get to a well behaved (joke) 640 hp car I am probably going to invest 10k in engine mods and another 15k in brake and suspension mods. I am not a Corvette fan (but willl take one as a gift) but for this kind of money go buy a 500 bhp Corvettte designed stock to handle the power.

You missed the most important part obviously. Scroll up if you have too...

"With properly matched components and an efficient intercooler, one rarely needs to exceed 15 psi on the street. With these in place, you will be at the safe mechanical limits of most stock based engines and HP will be doubled or tripled over stock."

Means internals have been upgraded and one will expirience the safe mechanical limits of a stock based engine. HP will be doubled or tripled over stock. This means that after the internals and build is done. After the right combination of components you will have a nice running and safe handling engine making double to triple the horsepower it did when it was stock at the same time you can drive it like you stole it.

 

[A Robinson.]

Welcome man, as for the 25 boost I wanted to explain to those other two that it's not all about boost. It's not about how much power you can create, it's all about having the right combination of internals to maximize your engine's performance without overworking any internals of pushing it to the limit. Big HP with little effort is the goal.

Very true, however from my specific experience with low compression small displacement motors. Creating lots of HP using fast burning fuels is always a challenge wouldn't you agree? This is where choosing a compressor wheel which heats the air as least as possible at high boost levels is important. Its pretty much common knowledge that small displacement motors need large amounts of boost to make power. Its also common knowledge that to more boost you attempt to run on fast burning fuels preignition becomes a concern.

What's the point of all this rambling you ask? Ill try to explain it again not for you specifically however just to explain my point. Regardless of the application every turbo/blower has a range where its operating at its most efficient point right? My point was compressor maps are created based on a 30psi surge limit. If you look at a compressor map, any compressor map. It will show what range (boost level) the compressor is working its best. Meaning the air is the least turbulent and the charged air temperature is at its lowest point.

You are correct you dont *Need to run 20-30 psi to make acceptable HP when you're dealing with a motor using 8 cylinders and 4.6 liters of displacement to create power. However that does not negate the fact that depending on what size/type compressor you have. The unit is most efficient and productive at boost levels above 20 psi. All you have to do is look at its peak efficiency island to see this. The same rules apply no matter what size motor you attach your blower/turbo to.

 

[SGL]

op:

By the way, what's a "DSM" ?

 

[A Robinson.]

op:

By the way, what's a "DSM" ?

 

[mlccar]

Stock Based Engine

You missed the most important part obviously. Scroll up if you have too...

"With properly matched components and an efficient intercooler, one rarely needs to exceed 15 psi on the street. With these in place, you will be at the safe mechanical limits of most stock based engines and HP will be doubled or tripled over stock."

Means internals have been upgraded and one will expirience the safe mechanical limits of a stock based engine. HP will be doubled or tripled over stock. This means that after the internals and build is done. After the right combination of components you will have a nice running and safe handling engine making double to triple the horsepower it did when it was stock at the same time you can drive it like you stole it.

Not to nick pick but replacing all the internals with forged components would seem to me to be classified as a non stock engine. And again, without significant upgrades to the tires and suspension you will not be able to utilize this HP. My "highest level" point is that taking a Ford Mustang and boosting horsepower by a factor of two does not make a Porsche Carrera class car - you still have a Mustang with a dangerous amount of horsepower. I know we all think it is cool (ok i do) to beat out one of these machines in a straight line but on a curved road forgeddaaboutit.

 

[SGL]

:shrug: Eagle Talon

 

[A Robinson.]

All turbo talons and eclipses.

 

[cKjuiced]

Not to nick pick but replacing all the internals with forged components would seem to me to be classified as a non stock engine. And again, without significant upgrades to the tires and suspension you will not be able to utilize this HP. My "highest level" point is that taking a Ford Mustang and boosting horsepower by a factor of two does not make a Porsche Carrera class car - you still have a Mustang with a dangerous amount of horsepower. I know we all think it is cool (ok i do) to beat out one of these machines in a straight line but on a curved road forgeddaaboutit.

Exactly the point, but one can feel the security mechanically of a stock engine with properly matched components. If the combination is correct you can run the hell of a properly well built engine with little consequence. Much like you with a stock motor, run the hell out of it.

 

[VenomousSVT]

tons of legit answers
my numbers reflected 19.90 hp per lb of boost on my setup.

 

[monstermach]

I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about, but I beleive I pretty much explained it as simple as it can get. I don't use search, I speak of relative facts from expirience and study. As for the other two it turned into a flame war of unbalanced proportions.

it wasnt really directed at you. i would agree that you did explain it in fairly simple terms, and without a flame. i think those guys totally put the cart before the horse on this one.




DSM= Diamond Star Motors, usually a specific plant somewhere in illinois.

 

[mlccar]

Run The Hell Out Of It

Exactly the point, but one can feel the security mechanically of a stock engine with properly matched components. If the combination is correct you can run the hell of a properly well built engine with little consequence. Much like you with a stock motor, run the hell out of it.

I agree. Maybe in a few years I will build up my COBRA with forged rods and pistons and boost the crap out of it with a 2.2L KB. Probably not- by this time gas will be $4.00 a gallon and I will not be able to justify a 12 mil/gallon car. Wishful thinking.

 

[Taz]

tons of legit answers
my numbers reflected 19.90 hp per lb of boost on my setup.

So, Travis, presuming your other bolt-ons brought you up to about 300 RWHP N/A, then that's almost exactly ... 7% per psi boost.



Presuming a baseline of exactly 300 HP N/A, then exactly 7% per psi would have been ...

300 * (1+(0.07*12)) = 552

Imagine that.


T-