How many getting the KB kit?

[Scott Kim]

what's with all the attitude around here???

 

[ZeroSpinn]

Originally posted by railroad
Made the call. Victor is supposed to call me to process the order.
Here I sit by the phone.:rollseyes

Yeah well don't hold your breath. I own the test car the kit was built on, and they don't seem to be close to done with that yet. But then again, they may ship out the kits before they're even done w/ mine, and other people may have the kit on and tuned before I get mine back... :shrug:

 

[sssSnake 01]

I have been waiting patiently for KB to make good on their promise to put out the kit for the twin screw blower for the 99/01 Cobras. I honestly did not expect them to follow through based on the shakey business case.

KB...first of all Thanks for keeping your promise!!!!

I know the limited number of 99/01 Cobras has to be making your non-recurring engineering very costly. I am betting that you are passing on the anticipated low volume of expected sales to the per unit asking price.

But, while I really do appreciate you making good on your promise to build a kit for the 01, at almost 7 large I will be wanting one for a while.

At 10K I can buy the already bullet proofed 03 engine.

Don't get me wrong....I still want one.

Signed - Working stiff with youngters headed off to college

 

[SVTHorsnake]

Originally posted by sssSnake 01
...at almost 7 large I will be wanting one for a while.

At 10K I can buy the already bullet proofed 03 engine...

enough said.

 

[quick01snake]

Originally posted by Taz
First, Marek, yes the '03/'04 Cobra intercooler will work with the KB. In fact, the intercooled version of the '99/'01 kit comes with one.



Okay, now what's all this NOISE from Snakie Horsey Boy?






You really are a prize package, kid. Gosh! I’ve never seen that relationship before. You must be REEEEL smurt. Pleez perdun my igornance.

Actually, Einstein, TORQUE is a type of rotational FORCE, while HORSEPOWER is a measurement of POWER (1 HP = 0.764 KW). When applied torque succeeds in rotating whatever it is acting on, you have done WORK, i.e. force applied through a distance (W=FD). Although the relationship you parroted (with an obvious lack of understanding) certainly does exist, your false conclusions represent a fallacy of logic called “post hoc reasoning.”

At the risk of exceeding your attention span, the pieces fit together like this:

The SI unit for power is the watt. One watt is equal to 1 Newton-meter per second (Nm/s). You can multiply the amount of torque in Newton-meters by the rotational speed in order to find the power in watts. Another way to look at power is as a unit of speed (m/s) combined with a unit of force (N). If you were pushing on something with a force of 1 N, and it moved at a speed of 1 m/s, your power output would be 1 watt.

Work is simply the application of a force over a distance, with one catch -- the distance only counts if it is in the direction of the force applied. Lifting a weight from the ground and putting it on a shelf is a good example of work. The force is equal to the weight of the object, and the distance is equal to the height of the shelf. If the weight were in another room, and you had to pick it up and walk across the room before you put it on the shelf, you didn't do any more work than if the weight were sitting on the ground directly beneath the shelf. It may have felt like you did more work, but while you were walking with the weight you moved horizontally, while the force from the weight was vertical.

Torque is a force that tends to rotate or turn things. You generate a torque any time you apply a force using a wrench. Tightening the lug nuts on your wheels is a good example. When you use a wrench, you apply a force to the handle. This force creates a torque on the lug nut, which tends to turn it. English units of torque are pound-inches or pound-feet; the SI unit is the Newton-meter. Notice that the torque units contain a distance and a force. To calculate the torque, you just multiply the force by the distance from the center. In the case of the lug nuts, if the wrench is a foot long, and you put 200 pounds of force on it, you are generating 200 pound-feet of torque. If you use a 2-foot wrench, you only need to put 100 pounds of force on it to generate the same torque.

A car engine creates torque and uses it to spin the crankshaft in exactly the same way: A force is applied at a distance. The combustion of gas in each cylinder creates pressure against the piston. That pressure creates a force on the piston, which pushes it down. The force is transmitted from the piston to the connecting rod, and from the connecting rod into the crankshaft. Torque is created because the piston is not at TDC when the air-fuel mixture is ignited, and the point where the connecting rod attaches to the crankshaft is some distance from the center of the shaft. When the piston is at TDC, the connecting rod points straight down at the center of the crankshaft. No torque is generated when the piston is in this position, because only the force that acts on the lever in a direction perpendicular to the lever generates a torque. As the horizontal distance from the crankshaft center line changes while the crankshaft spins, the torque also changes, since torque equals force multiplied by distance.

THAT WAS TECH, JUST IN CASE YOU DIDN'T RECOGNIZE IT. I'm not quite sure WHAT you call tech.

Carry on,

T-

P.S. If I'm overpaying for the dubious privilege of being underpowered, why are you saving up money from your paper route to buy a KB?

;-)

hmmmm.....area under the curve anyone??? LOL
good explainin Taz.....

 

[hunterp]

The price for the intercooled kit doesn't seem completely unreasonable compared to other units. The vortech with aftercooler comes out to $6200 on Vortech's site. While you may be able to get it cheaper somewhere else, I expect that eventually KB may also start selling through 3rd parties and they can set their own prices. Don't forget you also get a cold air kit, 90mm MAF, KB BAP, and the 03 Cobra lower intake. Unfortunately, everyone seems to have focused on the high-end kit and completely forgotten the cheaper kits they also put out.

 

[01CobraEric]

thinkin about it

Im not 100 percent but it is hard to not want the low torque. i had a 68 camaro back in the day with extreme toque in the low end and i definetly miss that. i will probably get it

 

[SVTHorsnake]

Originally posted by hunterp
The price for the intercooled kit doesn't seem completely unreasonable compared to other units. The vortech with aftercooler comes out to $6200 on Vortech's site. While you may be able to get it cheaper somewhere else, I expect that eventually KB may also start selling through 3rd parties and they can set their own prices. Don't forget you also get a cold air kit, 90mm MAF, KB BAP, and the 03 Cobra lower intake. Unfortunately, everyone seems to have focused on the high-end kit and completely forgotten the cheaper kits they also put out.

it would be sweet to do a port/polish job on the intake before the install:rockon:

 

[tommyhil4_6]

Originally posted by Taz
Ha, ha! I guess this is where we separate the men from the boys.

I'll be strapping on my intercooled KB real soon now.

See ya later, boys.

T-

Hahaha, why didn't you strap on the intercooled trubo setup? or twins from HP? 8 lbs of boost you'd be 450+ RWHP and 550+ RWTQ and FULL boost by 2300 RPM's... An at the turn of a knob you up your boost rather then get a pulley puller and need swap em.... I promise the low end on these turbos is similar to the KB but the top end annialates it.... like a twin screw down low and F1R up top....

 

[svtcobra202]

My kit has shipped! I wil let you know how the install goes.

 

[Taz]

Originally posted by tommyhil4_6
Hahaha, why didn't you strap on the intercooled trubo setup? or twins from HP? 8 lbs of boost you'd be 450+ RWHP and 550+ RWTQ and FULL boost by 2300 RPM's... An at the turn of a knob you up your boost rather then get a pulley puller and need swap em.... I promise the low end on these turbos is similar to the KB but the top end annialates it.... like a twin screw down low and F1R up top....

I wouldn't run a friggin' turbo if you gave me the damned thing. Why? This is why (at least in part) ...

Highlights from auto industry study of TC vs. SC applications

Additionally, your statements regarding the merits of a TC do not correspond with my personal experience with them. As far as I'm concerned TC's are NFG for ANYTHING other than all-out racing. I happen to drive my car on the street, in traffic.

T-

 

[chevysRslow]

My personal preference also favors superchargers but the summary referenced in the above auto industry link is a bit biased. The SAE papers the author references are also 20 years old.

Assuming for a minute prices are equal, my ranking would be: Lysholm, turbo, centrifugal, roots.

 

[mlccar]

TURBO DOWNSIDE

My experience with installing turbos and superchargers and my experience with owning a stock turbo car Plymouth Sundance!!!:

1) Installed turbo on 75' trans am (440 ci?)
Gave it a whoosh at 40 mph but lag was not an attractive feature. Basically transformed an american muscle car into a whooshmobile ( lack the technical terms to express this). boost took a while to get.

2) Installed a judson supercharger positive displacement (sliding vane) on MGB. Kick ass low RPM do-donuts in the parking lot torque. A lot a fun for a MGB.

3) Owned Plymouth sundance turbo car - Nice enhancement for a putt-putt car. Could actually kick some ass in the late 80's. Downside- temperature under the hood.

assement:
Turbo- High temps, limited life due to under hood temps
supercharger Positive as in roots or twin screw - low temps llong lifetime perhaps a belt lifetime issue.
Supercharger centrifugal- Looking for trouble. Low temps but high probability of over revving.

Assessment on assement:
Turbo-high temps=limited lifetime
Centrifugal SC= High rpm power is a recipe for over-revving and engine detonation/meltdown
Positive displacement- Only OEM blower that makes sense on new cars.

 

[mlccar]

ANYWAY-AM I ORDERING THis?

Yes. One of the original 18? 20? to put a deposit down. getting my kit in a week. Having a local (Rhode Island) speed shop install (no, I do not trust myself to do this). Should happen with dyno in last week of july. This is one of the weeks of my vacation as I do not want to deal with the Democratic National Convention traffic. In fact the DNC has annoyed me so much that I am thinking of switching party affilliations (not).

 

[tommyhil4_6]

Re: TURBO DOWNSIDE

Originally posted by mlccar
Assessment on assement:
Turbo-high temps=limited lifetime
Centrifugal SC= High rpm power is a recipe for over-revving and engine detonation/meltdown
Positive displacement- Only OEM blower that makes sense on new cars.

Turbo's contain only 200-300 higher temps then SC's... less strain on the crankshaft as no need to run a pulley... Lag is negligable if you have the right turbo for the right application. My car is FULL boost at 2300 RPM's and holds till redline.

Centrifugals are a great blower... all cars ahev the ability to quickly over-rev doesn't matter if your NA it's 99.9% a driver error, detonation and melt down are due alost 100% in the tune and capabilitys of the cars motor, again human error. DOES NOT matter what PA or NA you can melt your motor either way.

Cent's are a top end blower and are great for high HP cars, turbos are on of the most undeniably best PA's over all due to the low end grunt (low spool if application is correct) and unbelievable top end power, also adjustment with a button is nice, no pulleys, no belts, no connection to the motor other then exhaust gases, temps are not that much different and also depends on placement of the turbo.

Roots and twin screws are awesome for the low end grunt but have all the problems ANY other PA has, all cars are different and respond differently, some are lucky and maintain huge power forever some don't :shrug:

Definately and opinion on the best PA I think my TT decision was ideal especially for huge power #'s, right sized turbos, right application, right fitment and placement on the car and I push a button for more power if I desire, also about 1500 less then the KB kit, and mines with full suspension components and upgraded BOV's, boost controller, wastegates, and widebane and I'm still under the KB price. Worked for me, hopefully the KB works for you.

:rockon:

 

[Taz]

Re: Re: TURBO DOWNSIDE

Originally posted by tommyhil4_6
Turbo's contain only 200-300 higher temps then SC's... less strain on the crankshaft as no need to run a pulley... Lag is negligable if you have the right turbo for the right application. My car is FULL boost at 2300 RPM's and holds till redline.

Centrifugals are a great blower... all cars ahev the ability to quickly over-rev doesn't matter if your NA it's 99.9% a driver error, detonation and melt down are due alost 100% in the tune and capabilitys of the cars motor, again human error. DOES NOT matter what PA or NA you can melt your motor either way.

Cent's are a top end blower and are great for high HP cars, turbos are on of the most undeniably best PA's over all due to the low end grunt (low spool if application is correct) and unbelievable top end power, also adjustment with a button is nice, no pulleys, no belts, no connection to the motor other then exhaust gases, temps are not that much different and also depends on placement of the turbo.

Roots and twin screws are awesome for the low end grunt but have all the problems ANY other PA has, all cars are different and respond differently, some are lucky and maintain huge power forever some don't :shrug:

Definately and opinion on the best PA I think my TT decision was ideal especially for huge power #'s, right sized turbos, right application, right fitment and placement on the car and I push a button for more power if I desire, also about 1500 less then the KB kit, and mines with full suspension components and upgraded BOV's, boost controller, wastegates, and widebane and I'm still under the KB price. Worked for me, hopefully the KB works for you.

:rockon:

Got a dyno sheet up anywhere? I'd like to see a graph or some kind of supporting data for your power claims, reason being, every turbo I've ever seen or driven had some pretty weak shit down low, unless it was blowing off by the time it hit 5K RPM.

Also, since you seem to be running stock, i.e. 8-inch wide, wheels with spacers in the back, aren't you sort of traction limited no matter what kind of power adder you've got under the hood? I mean 275's would be about the limit on an 8" rim, and most guys - myself included - wouldn't think of running anything wider than about a 255 on that wheel size.

T-

 

[tommyhil4_6]

Re: Re: Re: TURBO DOWNSIDE

Originally posted by Taz
Also, since you seem to be running stock, i.e. 8-inch wide, wheels with spacers in the back, aren't you sort of traction limited no matter what kind of power adder you've got under the hood? I mean 275's would be about the limit on an 8" rim, and most guys - myself included - wouldn't think of running anything wider than about a 255 on that wheel size.

T-

Thats what my weld draglites are for. I am having the 2001 cobra wheels widened to 11"s as well and will be running 335 35 17 DR. Should be enough tire.

Heres the link to the turbo setup I purchased

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/

the site with the dyno sheets is not working on my comp :Shrug:

www.turbomustangs.com

Beauty of twins is you get fast spool. I run twin 46mm turbos with a .50 AR on each hot side. This allows the spool to be very quick, unlike say a single turbo kit from PTK or TDC or others that us say a 62MM. Since the turbo is larger it does not allow for the quick spooling and needs ALOT more exhaust gas to get the boost up. Still boost PSI turbo vs. SC (any kind), the turbo will out number in HP and TQ with ease and will havean abundance of TQ. To much torque is pointless and it's easy to dial these in. As soon as turbomustangs.com comes back up (they've been having issues for weeks, at least I have be my guest and see if you can get it to pop up) i'll get the dyno sheets for you. My car will be dyno'd as soon as my wideband is in place and I can datalog it for T&J to check out. I'll have real qorld and also real elevation (5000+Ft here) at 8lbs. and I will have a video of it and gladly post for you all to see.

 

[Taz]

Originally posted by tommyhil4_6
Thats what my weld draglites are for. I am having the 2001 cobra wheels widened to 11"s as well and will be running 335 35 17 DR. Should be enough tire.

Heres the link to the turbo setup I purchased

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/

the site with the dyno sheets is not working on my comp :Shrug:

www.turbomustangs.com

Beauty of twins is you get fast spool. I run twin 46mm turbos with a .50 AR on each hot side. This allows the spool to be very quick, unlike say a single turbo kit from PTK or TDC or others that us say a 62MM. Since the turbo is larger it does not allow for the quick spooling and needs ALOT more exhaust gas to get the boost up. Still boost PSI turbo vs. SC (any kind), the turbo will out number in HP and TQ with ease and will havean abundance of TQ. To much torque is pointless and it's easy to dial these in. As soon as turbomustangs.com comes back up (they've been having issues for weeks, at least I have be my guest and see if you can get it to pop up) i'll get the dyno sheets for you. My car will be dyno'd as soon as my wideband is in place and I can datalog it for T&J to check out. I'll have real qorld and also real elevation (5000+Ft here) at 8lbs. and I will have a video of it and gladly post for you all to see.

I just don’t like the feel of a turbocharged car.

“Fast spool” = “Some lag”

I’ve driven a couple twins, and there’s still some turbo lag. Granted, it’s less pronounced with small twins than with a big single, but it’s still there. There’s hysteresis in any turbo system that bothers me. Actually it bothers me more during deceleration than any other time. If I get into a sweeper too hot and have to change my line, the last thing I need is the friggin’ turbos overshooting and throwing me into the wall.

As far as “too much torque is pointless” goes, that’s utter nonsense. The only people who make such statements are those who are a bit short in that department and are trying to justify it, or those who want to sell you a product that produces none. Right off the showroom floor, my ’72 W30 had 500 lb-ft of torque from 2000 to 4800 RPM. It was a BLAST, and it was a no-brainer to modulate the loud pedal just enough to keep the back tires connected to the tarmac while eating just about anything else on the street. Only REALLY QUICK bikes could show that car their taillights on the road.

The intercooled KB kit for my car, right out of the box is good for better than 350 lb-ft at 2500 RPM. It ain’t the W30, but for my driving style and preference, it’s a hell of a lot better than 260 lb-ft at the same engine speed, which is what I see here:


Twin Turbo Mod Motor Dyno Graph


Well, sooner or later the discussion inevitably turns to “Yeah, but my turbo can cream your twin screw on the top end.” doesn't it? Okay. SO WHAT? I could stick a JATO pack on the ass end of my car and suck your headlights out. Man, don’t you get it? There’s ALWAYS someone faster, so for a street-driven car, it all comes down to “How much fun is it to drive?” For me, turbos and centris just don’t get it. Maybe, for you they do. Fine. Just don’t try to pump a bunch of sunshine up my skirt about the advantages of a power adder that I just plain don’t like the feel of under my boot. As I said in a previous post, I personally think turbos are NFG for anything but all-out racing. I stand by that statement. In fact, I’d add the statement that I’d take a centri over a TC any day. At least, I wouldn’t have to deal with the damned turbo lag.



Different Stuff. After reading the web page with references to the auto industry study of TC vs. SC automotive performance, someone noted that the site is biased. Of course they are, Team Lexus does SC’s, not TC’s, but the SAE industry technical papers referred to are objective engineering papers. Oh, my, but a couple of those papers are 20 years old! Umm, I guess the implication is supposed to be that once data reaches a certain age, it begins to rot like supermarket produce that’s been in the ‘fridge too long?

Well, I don’t think the laws of physics, fluid dynamics, and thermodynamics have changed all that much since any of those papers was written, and it’s not common practice within the professional community to continually rehash old news (hard to get published that way), but I’d certainly be happy to read any engineering paper anyone can produce that is more recent and disputes the information presented on that Pro Lex web page.

T-

 

[SGL]

I had an opportunity a few months ago to drive a specially prepared SRT-4 (2005 prototype) with 260hp. Pretty fast for that little car. But the turbo lag was still there. Even the factory guys can't get rid of it.......

 

[OhOneSnake]

To answer the orginal thread, YES

I am getting the now $4300 kit for the 01, but it isn't next in the line my mods have formed at my bank account, waiting for their turn.

Next in line at the moment is wider wheels/tires. 245/45s and 400+rwhp don't mix.

10.5s with 315/35 Eagle F1 GS-D3's and 1/4" spacer for the rear ought to do the trick. (No drag radials allowed. Daily driver that sees rain duty)