How do I deal with knock - datalogs showing masive knock

[NOWARRANTY]

It's kinda hard to say what's going on here as it appears you are not maintaining a consistent shutdown RPM throughout the various test runs. One thing that does appear to be consistent is that on the runs where you are seeing knock the Lambse values appear to be reading pretty high. Lambda 1.17 is like 17.x AFR = LEAN

 

[Kornilov]

So just to give an update/summary to anyone that may have been following this thread or for future searchers.

My initial data logs showed significant knock, up to a max of 5 degrees. I added some Lucas octane booster which lowered the knock but it was still present anywhere from 1 to 3 degrees. At this point, trying to identify the source of knock, I had the car on a buddy's lift and we verified that the exhaust was properly fastened and was not the source of any false knock. Following this, I got a 5 gallon jug of Sunoco 104 race gas. With the race gas, the knock almost completely disappeared but there was fraction of a degree on certain data logs. This cocnerned Shaun as he said there shouldnt be any knock and that the ECU should've been adding more timing than it was.

At this point, I pulled the plugs and Blazer707 kindly took a look at them. Aside from the red residue from the octane booster, there didnt appear to be anything cocnerning from the appearance of the plugs. following the inspection of the plugs, I went ahead and did a compression test on the motor which yielded good results - all cylinders holding at least 180 psi and 4% variation from lowest to highest. I threw in a fresh set of OEM plugs and still had a gallon or so of 104 in the fuel system. With the remaining fuel, I managed 4 logs which showed absolutely no knock and in fact the ECU was adding timing like a fiend.

So now, Im fairly confident my engine is in good health and that my initial knock issues were as a result of terrible fuel. In a way, Im back to step 1. I will continue to log and experiment with different fuel until I find a good station in my area. Unfoturnately, Shaun has written off my motor. Once I find better fuel and verify knock is under control, I think I will look into a Steeda tune.

A very big thank you to Blazer707 for his time and knowledge. He is a major asset to this forum.

 

[Kornilov]

My last set of logs in case anyone wants to take a look:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uqrpdbf0p7ly1y1/a.csv?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pgv7dsn5qsc0vfm/b.csv?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qunrwu426g4063m/c.csv?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fj4yuqh8wu680ry/d.csv?dl=0

 

[daustin]

A very big thank you to Blazer707 for his time and knowledge. He is a major asset to this forum.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Kornilov]

Just a quick update for the board in case folks stumble on this thread looking to diagnose their issues.

A member here directed me to Matt Honeycutt who is a wizard on the Coyote ECU. Matt wrote a tune for me that made my engine purr like a cat at idle and maintain exceptional driveability but let loose like a god damn rocket when dropping the throttle. I've had no issues with the car/tune and would (an am) heartily recommending Matt to anyone that may have had bad luck elsewhere.

I believe Matt is now a sponsored vendor here on SVTP. If anyone is having issues, PM him. His account info is here:
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/member.php?81012-MattH-HPTuners

 

[Grabber]

Kornilov - So, is your knock entirely gone? I have an AED tune as well, and even with 100 octane mixed with about half of 93, I have slight knock. My car should be making more power, but, it seems throughout the power-band even with mixed 100 octane, she is bitching a bit.

I truly respect Shaun and don't believe this is a tune issue as his tunes, knowledge and experience say otherwise. I know better fuel will realistically eliminate knock. If I can, I'm going to run 110 with 5-7 gallons of 93 and check again to see if the knock is gone.

Thanks bud.

-Chris

 

[choate]

A long time ago when I had a 2005 GTO diablotune Lew told me to use Mobil gas and when I did I got way less knock too. I was convinced then it was something about shell gas at my station at least that the goat didn't like as much as mobile gas. I've ran mobil gas ever since unless I am forced to get gas somewhere else. Just my experience w a different car and at specific gas stations. Never data logged this mustang but it would be interesting to see logs from shell 93 then mobil 93 after a tank has ran through of each.

 

[Kornilov]

Kornilov - So, is your knock entirely gone? I have an AED tune as well, and even with 100 octane mixed with about half of 93, I have slight knock. My car should be making more power, but, it seems throughout the power-band even with mixed 100 octane, she is bitching a bit.

I truly respect Shaun and don't believe this is a tune issue as his tunes, knowledge and experience say otherwise. I know better fuel will realistically eliminate knock. If I can, I'm going to run 110 with 5-7 gallons of 93 and check again to see if the knock is gone.

Thanks bud.

-Chris

Chris,

So I havent done a log in a while, but the last few I did, the knock was down to <1.0 under all conditions. This is an acceptable level and low enough to live with.

I actually sold the car a few month ago to get a few family car for the wife. But the car ran perfect from the day I got Matt's tune until the last day I owned it (I returned the tune to stock before selling).

 

[kona 199]

Can i do those dattalogs with sct x3 and load them on my home computer?

 

[Vert]

Yes you can. You can do it directly on the sct or download the tuner software from sct website.

 

[kona 199]

Yes you can. You can do it directly on the sct or download the tuner software from sct website.

thx.will do in next few days

 

[BigmotoXer]

When tuning my 2011 I had knock on the dyno, after much confusion and guessing found it was 1 of my 8 spark plugs was fouled, fouling, or otherwise jacked up. Just throwing that in there.

 

[GearsNBeers]

When I had my car tuned by Shaun it had a little bit of knock at 5k rpm. He wouldn't tune it, until the knock was gone either. Basically it ended up being carbon deposits for me, and to get rid of it, I had the car run at a high rpm for an extended period of time (not sure if it was WOT or part throttle) to "melt" the carbon deposits off. This worked, so try this method (Race gas + plus HIGH RPM use) and see if the knock gets better. 5 degrees is a lot of timing being pulled, so I understand why he won't tune your car. If this doesn't work maybe its some sort of "false" knock"

Also DEFINATELY make sure you have the stock tune. You could have an aftermarket tune that's running very high timing. Good luck, Knock is a mother fing b@#$%

I don't know if you still lurk on the forums or not but that tidbit of info saved my sanity. I attributed knock to bad gas and had timing adjusted accordingly. I would still see knock that shouldn't be there. Put 104 octane sonoco unleaded in it and still saw knock. Went over the car so many times it makes me sick and found nothing. My car is not my daily driver its my toy. The previous owner was an old guy who babied it as well. Hell I have only put slightly under 8k miles on it since i bought it in 2012. I would make a test hit, see knock, get mad, and park it. Go back to the drawing board. Saw your post and figured screw it. Did a test in second gear up to redline saw knock(always real low like .5 to 1 degree/ sometimes none at all). Did it again in second without logging this time. Kept it revving for a period of time. Then did the 2nd gear slow acceleration test again to redline no knock. Did 2nd gear wot to redline no knock. Flat out faux quarter mile pass in drive no knock. My conclusion is my knock sensors hated me because I drove the car like a pussy.

 

[50blackout]

I don't know if you still lurk on the forums or not but that tidbit of info saved my sanity. I attributed knock to bad gas and had timing adjusted accordingly. I would still see knock that shouldn't be there. Put 104 octane sonoco unleaded in it and still saw knock. Went over the car so many times it makes me sick and found nothing. My car is not my daily driver its my toy. The previous owner was an old guy who babied it as well. Hell I have only put slightly under 8k miles on it since i bought it in 2012. I would make a test hit, see knock, get mad, and park it. Go back to the drawing board. Saw your post and figured screw it. Did a test in second gear up to redline saw knock(always real low like .5 to 1 degree/ sometimes none at all). Did it again in second without logging this time. Kept it revving for a period of time. Then did the 2nd gear slow acceleration test again to redline no knock. Did 2nd gear wot to redline no knock. Flat out faux quarter mile pass in drive no knock. My conclusion is my knock sensors hated me because I drove the car like a pussy.

Just saw your post GearsnBeers, glad my experience helped. These cars have such sensitive knock sensors and they get "dirty" (carbon on valves) real quick. I take my car out sometimes and just redline it in third gear 5 or 6 times and push it hard, and always it feels better after the next day. My datalogs would have about 1 degree of knock and with this method it would go down to .2 or just disappear. It always comes back a few months later however.

I was recently reading that a GOOD oil separator would prevent this, or at least help, so if you haven't got one, GET ONE!! I have the JLT and it catches oil, but they just released a "version 3.0" that catches more oil. I would go with this one or Bobs. Sean at AED also recommends at PCV valve from the 2013 F150 ecoboost. The combination of that and at oil separator would probably be the best.

 

[slofoshow]

Just saw your post GearsnBeers, glad my experience helped. These cars have such sensitive knock sensors and they get "dirty" (carbon on valves) real quick. I take my car out sometimes and just redline it in third gear 5 or 6 times and push it hard, and always it feels better after the next day. My datalogs would have about 1 degree of knock and with this method it would go down to .2 or just disappear. It always comes back a few months later however.

I was recently reading that a GOOD oil separator would prevent this, or at least help, so if you haven't got one, GET ONE!! I have the JLT and it catches oil, but they just released a "version 3.0" that catches more oil. I would go with this one or Bobs. Sean at AED also recommends at PCV valve from the 2013 F150 ecoboost. The combination of that and at oil separator would probably be the best.

+1 on the 13 F150 PCV and oil separator. I saw that in another thread awhile back, thought hell for $8 why not, and have had good luck with almost eliminating oil in the catch can. For what its worth, I am running the crappy JLT catch can as well so it appears this PCV was well worth the money.

 

[KushBandit]

You can also run breathers if you want to completely get rid of the issue.

 

[50blackout]

You can also run breathers if you want to completely get rid of the issue.

Your're right, I remember reading that breathers completely solve the issue. There was a post awhile back for a guy with 2 or 3 degrees knock on his Mustang, and breathers completely took care of it (no knock or very little) within a short amount of time.