HOTROD Reports seeing 5.4 SC in 05 Mustang (Cobra Mule)

[Captain Beyond]

Originally posted by saleenfiend17
one question.... where in the hell is everybody finding all of the *new* camaro info? b/c i would like to see it.. FROM GM.
the drawings everyone has been seeing is from a 17 yr old kid who drew those 2 years ago... not chevy..
any links i would love to see.

any way the 07 cobra is most likely gonna be a 5.4L 3V 500hp and i think 460?(not sure) ftlbs torque... from what i have seen.. im not saying im right.. lol and im not flamin on anyone just my 2 cents ... Z06 Competition.. DEFINETLY

We had a sneak peak viewing of the new 05 Mustang GT here in Texas yesterday. There was the head designer of the new Mustang and some SVT reps. there to answer questions. I nearly begged the head designer ( I forgot what his name was) for some SVT Cobra info. He pulled me aside to tell me that the next SVT Cobra is going to be a monster, like the current one is. He did say that it will have a supercharged 4V motor (about 500 hp). It should be able to compete with the Z06 as it does now. It is to remain a true dominant muscle/pony car (camaro/firebird slayer) not a true purpose built 2 seat sportscar like the Vette.

 

[Formula51]

In what category other than a straight line does the Cobra compete with a ZO6? Shoot, its not even all that close in a straight line, several showroom stock ZO6's have gone high 11's. Excellent driver and conditions we are talking 11.9 to 12.5! Please dont just throw that stuff around like its a hard fact written in stone. I dont mean to flame it just frustrates me when people blanket ingorant statements all over the place.

 

[Orange Poison]

Formula51,

What do you guess the new Z06 to be around price wise when it comes out? Guestimate....

And, when is it scheduled to come out?

 

[Koolaid_Guy]

I can really truly see the new cobra having 450 to 500 HP with a better engineered irs behind it. Like Coletti said the GT engine was just designed for one car. I have seen technicial drawing of the new cobra and the way the solid axle is bolted to the car looks like it will compliment a irs well with some changes like i have heard from many people. This car will truly be a much better cobra then today's. New frame,rear end, suspension geometry. I have pictures around here somwhere of the redesigned machpherson strut for the mustang. A front suspension based off the lincoln ls and bmw m3 is ok in my book, b/c thier awesome handling automobilies in thier respective categories.

"One of the more critical development areas was the front suspension, where the Mustang design team delivered a high degree of precision handling, coupled with a smooth ride, all while harnessing the power a top-of-the-line GT can deliver.

Engineers carefully examined the BMW M3, a car believed by many to deliver just such qualities, before they laid out the Mustang's suspension. They used lessons learned from the M3 and the Lincoln LS to create the new Mustang's chassis design.

Mustang engineers settled on using a coil-over MacPherson strut front suspension with reverse "L" lower control arms made of lightweight I-section steel. MacPherson struts – originally developed in the 1940s by Earl S. MacPherson, a Ford engineer – are widely renowned for their ability to deliver both comfort and control with reduced weight.

The L-shaped lower control arms offer additional advantages over A-arm or wishbone-shaped suspension components when it comes to blending sure handling with ride comfort. A firm bushing is positioned at the point where the shorter forward leg of the L-arm connects to the chassis to control side-to-side motion and quicken steering response. The fore-and-aft movements are directed through a softer, compliant bushing at the longer, rear L-arm leg, which damps road shocks. This isolation is a direct benefit of the reverse L-configuration of the control arms.

Springs are mounted concentrically on the MacPherson struts in a coil-over-shock configuration. The layout allows the shocks to damp forces in the same vector as the spring, cutting friction and enabling more precise shock-valve tuning. A stabilizer bar – 34 mm on the GT and 28.6 mm for V-6 models – helps limit body roll.

At the core of Mustang’s advanced new front suspension is groundbreaking manufacturing technology used to produce steel control arms that actually weigh less than some comparable cast-aluminum designs.

Employed for the first time in a production vehicle, this new manufacturing technique allows two C-section stampings to be assembled back-to-back with welded seams. This creates an I-section profile that offers an exceptional strength-to-weight ratio. Material is efficiently moved toward the edges of the control arms for increased stiffness, while the center is kept thin to minimize weight.

Reducing unsprung weight – components that are positioned below the springs and shocks – improves the suspension’s response to abrupt changes, like pavement seams. Drivers will feel more connected to the road, while enjoying a smoother, quieter ride.

"Having too much unsprung weight is like trying to play basketball in ski boots," said Rushbrook. "Keeping the unsprung weight low gives the suspension the quickness to stay firmly planted to the road."

The new steering system not only makes Mustang more enjoyable to drive on the open road, it also greatly improves parking lot maneuverability. The rack-and-pinion linkage provides crisp turn-in and excellent response, with a turning circle nearly 3 feet smaller than the 2004 model."

Front Suspension Pic Here
Pic

Porsche GT3 front axle assembly, This car has no problem in the corners and it's a macpherson, highly tuned yes but still has the basis of a macpherson strut system.

 

[Formula51]

Blue Poison:

Gen IV LS7 small-block V-8 for 2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06
Specially trained technicians from UAW Local 653; each technician builds an engine from start to finish
Capacity: 15,000 engines annually; highly flexible "mix" can respond to quickly changing market conditions
Every engine to be hot-tested

Approximately $60,000

 

['01ArrestMeRed]

First of all, there are some misconceptions going on here.......... along with a fair blend of subjective opinion.

There are 2 very distinct vehicles being discussed here.

First there is the '07 Cobra/GR1. This car is a purpose built sports car that will compete with the Viper and Z06. It will be priced comparatively to the Viper and will use much of the Ford GT's technology (including suspension). What engine it will have is only a guess at this time.

Next, there is the SVT Mustang. I am refraining from using the name Cobra since it does nothing but cause confusion. While the SVT Mustang will compete with the regular Vette in the acceleration arena, it should only be close in the handling department. Now, the only reason I am mentioning those two cars together is that they do/will have similar acceleration. In reality, they are nowhere close to being competitors. One being a purpose built 2-seater sports car, the other being a 4-seat Muscle/Pony car.

The fact that they are compared is more a situation of default than anything else (due to the F-bodies being gone).

As for the C6 Z06 running with the GT............. While they "may" (we really don't know yet because no official specs have been released on the C6 Z06) be close.............. close is a relative word. I just don't see the Z06 running [email protected]............ and neither do any of the Z06 fans on the other forums. Remember that 131mph is easily 10's in the right hands............. and under better conditions (the MT test was done in the summer in AZ, need I say more). Also, the GT does run faster than the MT test showed, as it was stating that both it and the CGT were still accelerating when they had to brake for the next turn.

Also, comparing a 2-seater sports car to a mid engined exotic is kinda silly. Just like some find that the SVT Mustang accelerating faster than Vette doesn't mean much............ well neither does the Z06 doing 60-0 better than the GT mean anything.

BTW, a McPherson strut suspension can be tuned to deliver stellar handling performance, as has been proven by the 3-series BMW/M3 and some of the Honda cars.

 

[Captain Beyond]

Originally posted by '01ArrestMeRed
First of all, there are some misconceptions going on here.......... along with a fair blend of subjective opinion.

There are 2 very distinct vehicles being discussed here.

First there is the '07 Cobra/GR1. This car is a purpose built sports car that will compete with the Viper and Z06. It will be priced comparatively to the Viper and will use much of the Ford GT's technology (including suspension). What engine it will have is only a guess at this time.

Next, there is the SVT Mustang. I am refraining from using the name Cobra since it does nothing but cause confusion. While the SVT Mustang will compete with the regular Vette in the acceleration arena, it should only be close in the handling department. Now, the only reason I am mentioning those two cars together is that they do/will have similar acceleration. In reality, they are nowhere close to being competitors. One being a purpose built 2-seater sports car, the other being a 4-seat Muscle/Pony car.

The fact that they are compared is more a situation of default than anything else (due to the F-bodies being gone).

As for the C6 Z06 running with the GT............. While they "may" (we really don't know yet because no official specs have been released on the C6 Z06) be close.............. close is a relative word. I just don't see the Z06 running [email protected]............ and neither do any of the Z06 fans on the other forums. Remember that 131mph is easily 10's in the right hands............. and under better conditions (the MT test was done in the summer in AZ, need I say more). Also, the GT does run faster than the MT test showed, as it was stating that both it and the CGT were still accelerating when they had to brake for the next turn.

Also, comparing a 2-seater sports car to a mid engined exotic is kinda silly. Just like some find that the SVT Mustang accelerating faster than Vette doesn't mean much............ well neither does the Z06 doing 60-0 better than the GT mean anything.

BTW, a McPherson strut suspension can be tuned to deliver stellar handling performance, as has been proven by the 3-series BMW/M3 and some of the Honda cars.

Well said, '01 ArrestMeRed :beer:

 

[CobraBri]

Why do people think that it will be so difficult for the next SVT Mustang to handle with a C6 Vette? The C6 still uses LEAF springs for pete's sake. As long as the weight is kept under control, I can see the SVT running lap times competitive with or better than Z51 Vettes, even though the Cobra is a "GT" car, not a sports car. ;-)

 

[Formula51]

Tis, tis, tis.

The monoleaf spring in the Vette is hardly the same as those of an say an old F150 or something.

And yes I think it will be difficult for the next SVT Mustang to hanlde with a C6 Vette, especially one with the Z51 suspension option, you do know what that is right? Its just about equal to a C5 ZO6, same tranny ratios, etc. The next SVT may run competetive lap times with a base C6, but I doubt with a C6 Z51.

Of course we know nothing about the new SVT car, but if it is 450hp NA with a very nice suspension and some weight savings say 3300-3400lbs then I think it could do pretty darn well and I would be tempted to buy one assuming I like the styling changes.

If its a 3600+lb tank again, even with a 500hp SC engine sitting in the front, then its not going to compete in ANYTHING but a straigt line.

 

[fastpearl04]

i sure hope hotrod mag is telling the truth

 

[CobraBri]

Originally posted by Formula51
Tis, tis, tis.

The monoleaf spring in the Vette is hardly the same as those of an say an old F150 or something.

And yes I think it will be difficult for the next SVT Mustang to hanlde with a C6 Vette, especially one with the Z51 suspension option, you do know what that is right? Its just about equal to a C5 ZO6, same tranny ratios, etc. The next SVT may run competetive lap times with a base C6, but I doubt with a C6 Z51.

Of course we know nothing about the new SVT car, but if it is 450hp NA with a very nice suspension and some weight savings say 3300-3400lbs then I think it could do pretty darn well and I would be tempted to buy one assuming I like the styling changes.

If its a 3600+lb tank again, even with a 500hp SC engine sitting in the front, then its not going to compete in ANYTHING but a straigt line.

So because the car has "Mustang" pasted on the back, it won't outhandle a Z51 C6...even though the 2000 Cobra R could probably handle nearly as well. Not sure if you realize this but Ford has quite a reputation for making vehicles that handle. Their trucks and SUVs typically outhandle anything in their respective classes and the Focus is still world renowned for its fine handling. So tell me again why their is no way an SVT Cobra could not outhandle the C6.....

 

[Formula51]

I never said anything about because it has Mustang on the back. You just said that. The 200 Cobra R handled very very well, but its not exactly a production SVT Cobra that anyone can obtain now is it.

Hmm, never said no way, just that is would be "very difficult". Yep, those were my words, not sure how you missed them since they were right above you. Or perhaps your reading comprehension skills are at a 5th grade level and you thought the part where I said if it is a 3600+lb car than it will only be able to compete with the Vette in straight line performance. Of course this is my opinion and is speculation, but fairly grounded I would say.

"So tell me again why their is no way an SVT Cobra could not outhandle the C6....."

I cant tell you again because I never told you in the first place. Some people.....

 

[CobraBri]

Originally posted by Formula51
I never said anything about because it has Mustang on the back. You just said that. The 200 Cobra R handled very very well, but its not exactly a production SVT Cobra that anyone can obtain now is it.

Hmm, never said no way, just that is would be "very difficult". Yep, those were my words, not sure how you missed them since they were right above you. Or perhaps your reading comprehension skills are at a 5th grade level and you thought the part where I said if it is a 3600+lb car than it will only be able to compete with the Vette in straight line performance. Of course this is my opinion and is speculation, but fairly grounded I would say.

"So tell me again why their is no way an SVT Cobra could not outhandle the C6....."

I cant tell you again because I never told you in the first place. Some people.....

So you're going to insult me because of semantics? Great :rollseyes "Very difficult," "no way," whatever...honestly, I'm not REAL REAL interrested in what you have to say, so I skimmed your post...call me lazy if you like. The actual point of this disagreement (which you turned into flaming) is that you thinly disguised the contention or implied that the SVT Cobra is not capable of outhandling the Vette....and the only real reason you give is that "uh, the Vette has the Z51...." :rollseyes or that the Cobra might weigh 3600lbs...so however you might (or is it may? or might? oh dear, my grammar may be checked here so forgive my panic......LOL) phrase your post, its pretty apparant that you don't think a Mustang (even a completely NEW Mustang) could outhandle a Vette...THAT is the bottom line. You are entitled to your opinion and with that I'm done :burn:

 

[wizbangdoodle]

Talk about bench racing, whooooo doggie. You have to admit, Formula51, that using terms like "tank" mean that you are not enamored by the Mustang Cobra like most people on this sight are.
Keep it civil and take it to the track.

 

[Formula51]

On the contrary, I am enamored with the Cobra. And will seriously consider buying the new one depending on what it has to offer. The word tank is a way of explaining how heavy the current one is. Just as a GTO is a tank. While I can deal with it from the GTO, which is not ment to be the road racer the SVT Mustang is, I expect the SVT be lighter. Just because I dont think the SVT of late competes with the Vette in handling, and comparisons prive me right, doesnt mean I dont love the car. Shoot, it costs thousands less than the Vette, and you have a back seat and cheaper insurance. For the SVT Mustang to perform as well as it does for 33k is incredible, but it just doesnt compete with the more expensive purpose built Vette.

As I have said before, it will be very hard to compete with the Vette for less money, as the Vette competes with high-end (exotics) for dirt compared to the cost of those cars. The Vette is the "bang for the buck to compete with the top cars". If Ford can do it for less, you better believe I would be all over that, assuming I like the style of the car.

And Cobrabri, yes I flammed you, and you still didnt take the time to read my post. AGAIN. How can you reply to me and tell me I'm wrong when you dont take the time to read and understand, perhaps even think about what I am saying. I never talked about grammar. I said reading comprehension, again you didnt comprehend that, oh well. My bad for jumping on you, but if you are gonna post rebutles in a discussion, it would be nice if you actually read the discussion. The comment, "uh, the Vette has the Z51....". That a perfect example. I still dont think you even understand what that performance package entitles. Oh well, as you said you are done, I will give up too, as it seams pointless to continue this. Until 2007 then:burnout:

 

[Formula51]

I thought I should clarify what I mean by compete. Here are the categories I am thinking.

Acceleration:
0-60
0-100
1/4 mile
top speed

Braking:
60-0
100-0

Handling:
skid pad
slalom
track times

If the next SVT can compete, meaning edge out in some categories and be darn close in the rest, while costing the same or less than the Vette, then SVT will have my business. SVT has a great service record and the addition of a back seat and probably cheaper insurance would be all she wrote. All kinds of people would buy this car. This is what I hope the next SVT is capable of, but I just dont see it happening. I hope SVT proves me wrong and wins my business.

 

[CobraBri]

Originally posted by Formula51

And Cobrabri, yes I flammed you, and you still didnt take the time to read my post. AGAIN. How can you reply to me and tell me I'm wrong when you dont take the time to read and understand, perhaps even think about what I am saying. I never talked about grammar. I said reading comprehension, again you didnt comprehend that, oh well. My bad for jumping on you, but if you are gonna post rebutles in a discussion, it would be nice if you actually read the discussion. The comment, "uh, the Vette has the Z51....". That a perfect example. I still dont think you even understand what that performance package entitles. Oh well, as you said you are done, I will give up too, as it seams pointless to continue this. Until 2007 then:burnout:

I have read about the Z51 package, so yes I know what it is oh, and buddy, the SVT Cobra is not going to be considerably cheaper than a Vette so the current Mustang<Vette paradigm does not necessarily mean anything when considering the 2007 models.

And yeah, thanks again for "flamming" me :dw: whatever that is.