Hopping on the correction train soon

[GoFastZ]

Listen dude, I have almost 8,000 posts and a +165. I've DONE the research, if that's not obvious you are just blind. I think the Rupes and the Flex are the best out there, but neither is heads and tails better than the other.

Examples of past "research":

But here I'll stroke you as it's obvious you desperately crave it:

"Yes you are right, the Rupes is 100 times better than anything else out there. People like the Junkman, who use the Flex and the PC, and do this for a living, are just not on your level yet. Once they discover the wonder that is the Rupes, they will see the light and never again question your professional and highly educated opinion."

With that, I'm out :coolman:

So this is one of those sites where post count = instant knowledge.... good to know. Curious what a trader rating has to do with actual technical knowledge........ Car show awards....I've been to Pebble Beach and Concours d'Elegance AND The Quail and can attest that 95% of the cars at these events (which are the pinnacle of automotive perfection and aweomeness) are swirled up and need SERIOUS correction work. What really counts is real world experience and real photos to show you know what you're doing.

AWDLS2 knows exactly what he's talking about. I've had him help me on numerous high end cars and he can perform at a very high level. Far beyond the junkman's skills. Now I'm not blasting junkman as he is knowledgeable and capable, but its very good work vs flawless work.

That being said, I've used every machine in the industry VERY thoroughly over the last 10 years, and the Rupes 21 is the best machine I've ever used. Is it the most powerful? No. Is max power a real world concern? No. In reality lower speed often produces better results. Too many people spin their machines at too high a speed to try and get things done faster and its usually counter productive, especially with a non-diminishing abrasive product. As for the machine "bogging down", that's a safety feature....helps to keep you from going too aggressive when you reach a sudden panel change where you could do damage. This is where the FLEX falls short and can easily do damage. The counter-clockwise rotation of the FLEX also makes the machine more difficult to handle and move smoothly. Comparing the FLEX to the Rupes is like comparing a C5 to a C7 vette.... totally different machine and they operate differently. The FLEX is a good machine, but its not in the same league as the Rupes 21. Now the Rupes 21 is not ideal to small areas (neither is the FLEX), so they introduced the LHR75 and Duetto and Mini....all of which are extremely capable machines and trounce the competition. And if anyone has used the Rupes but hasn't done the washer mod, you're seriously missing out on what the machine is capable of...

 

[GoFastZ]

I'm guessing how the OP washed his car was originally posted then edited?

I like using a two bucket method as well as a foam gun while washing my car.

The HF unit isn't bad if you're not doing this professionally and you're using the machine periodically. If using it quite a bit I'd get a higher quality polisher as longevity will be better.

I know the Rupes my by friend uses, he own two get used a LOT and have lasted quite a while. The GG6s have required some being sent in to get fixed. I want to say 7-8 of them.

In the case DA polishers you truly do get what you pay for when using them on a professional level. As I said earlier if you're using them here and there you might get away with the cheaper DAs.

I've worked with my buddy and we used the same pad, compound, speed and working time on an Infiniti we did. The Rupes decimated the GG6 as far as results go.

I attribute Rupes to working smarter not harder lol

While at SEMA this year all detailing booths had Rupes to demonstrate their products except three. One being a Cyclo and a rebranded Griots. I only saw a Flex at the Auto Geek booth but they also had a Rupes.

PS my post count is also decent but I don't sell things on this website so my trader rating is less lmao

Pretty much.

Like he said....when nearly every booth at SEMA is using this machine it speaks volumes. And at the most recent IDA conference, every booth was using the Rupes to demo all their products.

 

[coolcobramatt]

Another Bay area smartass I see. I never said post count directly associated to knowledge but I did say mine does. You put words in my mouth. Your buddy who's nutsack you seem to be hanging off of stated the rupes is far ahead of all others. His opinion only and I stated just that. The awards I have won should have given you some idea that I have a slight handle on what I am talking about. You both just want to argue, which is getting childish. I'm not here to continue to feed it though. I am here to help people like the op who can learn from all of us.

You pointed out Junkman makes videos for beginners. In case you missed it... OP is a beginner. A beginner will be just fine with a Porter Cable.

My feedback, which you didn't catch the connection, points to the fact I've bought and sold a ton of items. Items include polishers, waxes, sealants, etc. I've done my research the hard way... Experience.

I'll say again and for the final time... both machines are very good. Neither is head and tails above the other.

 

[GoFastZ]

I thought you were done? If you NEED to call me a name to make yourself feel better, go right ahead. So your post count DOES make you smarter then....interesting lol.

I guess nutswinging is what you call friends out in Kentucky.... The difference is his opinion is based on fact with real world proven results. I'm not saying you're incompetent (though you are REALLY defensive...), but awards for good paint doesn't mean crap when you've been to as many shows as I have and especially the high caliber ones. I've seen multi-million dollar F-cars win best paint covered in buffer trails. Judges are individuals and most don't really know good paint.

You're talking about me being childish yet you call me a smartass and a nutswinger. Very mature response.

In case YOU missed it, I'll reiterate a few things. I said Junkman is capable. Never bagged on the PC.

Selling products does not equate experience using them. How long did you use each? Does it even come close to the years I have put in as a professional? I doubt it. I have REAL WORLD experience.


The Rupes is far better than the FLEX. FLEX sales are dropping, Rupes are skyrocketing, and people with FLEXs are getting bottom dollar when selling them because not many want them.

As a professional with over a decade of experience and extensive knowledge and use of every available machine and I can say definitively that the Rupes is a better machine. All of this is based on fact and experience.

 

[Adower]

So this is one of those sites where post count = instant knowledge.... good to know. Curious what a trader rating has to do with actual technical knowledge........ Car show awards....I've been to Pebble Beach and Concours d'Elegance AND The Quail and can attest that 95% of the cars at these events (which are the pinnacle of automotive perfection and aweomeness) are swirled up and need SERIOUS correction work. What really counts is real world experience and real photos to show you know what you're doing.

AWDLS2 knows exactly what he's talking about. I've had him help me on numerous high end cars and he can perform at a very high level. Far beyond the junkman's skills. Now I'm not blasting junkman as he is knowledgeable and capable, but its very good work vs flawless work.

That being said, I've used every machine in the industry VERY thoroughly over the last 10 years, and the Rupes 21 is the best machine I've ever used. Is it the most powerful? No. Is max power a real world concern? No. In reality lower speed often produces better results. Too many people spin their machines at too high a speed to try and get things done faster and its usually counter productive, especially with a non-diminishing abrasive product. As for the machine "bogging down", that's a safety feature....helps to keep you from going too aggressive when you reach a sudden panel change where you could do damage. This is where the FLEX falls short and can easily do damage. The counter-clockwise rotation of the FLEX also makes the machine more difficult to handle and move smoothly. Comparing the FLEX to the Rupes is like comparing a C5 to a C7 vette.... totally different machine and they operate differently. The FLEX is a good machine, but its not in the same league as the Rupes 21. Now the Rupes 21 is not ideal to small areas (neither is the FLEX), so they introduced the LHR75 and Duetto and Mini....all of which are extremely capable machines and trounce the competition. And if anyone has used the Rupes but hasn't done the washer mod, you're seriously missing out on what the machine is capable of...

I've used the rupes 21 and I have to disagree with your take on it "bogging down". I was going across a flat panel to a curved panel with almost no pressure. The machine head totally stopped. I dont think that is a safety feature. Instead, it is a downfall to the machine.

I've had no problem with the flex and its forced counter clockwise motion. It's for some people and isnt for others. I dont think that makes it a bad machine because you did not like it.

Finally, the flex has the option to buy a 4" backing plate and attach a 5" pad to get into smaller areas. I dont think there is an option for that with the rupes 21. Instead you have to buy a whole other machine.

I dont think there are definitive studies or tests to show that the rupes is in a whole other league that the flex. Seems its more like personal opinion at best. You can find people pro flex or pro rupes. If you have links I'd love to read them!

 

[coolcobramatt]

I was done but you got me troll. Post count doesn't amount to knowledge but you with a hearty 3 posts coming on here claiming you DO know your stuff plus have been to concours d'elegance car shows is a total laugher. You ask for pics to prove but you expect us to believe you without proof of shite?

Good work troll. You got me I admit it lol.

 

[GoFastZ]

I've used the rupes 21 and I have to disagree with your take on it "bogging down". I was going across a flat panel to a curved panel with almost no pressure. The machine head totally stopped. I dont think that is a safety feature. Instead, it is a downfall to the machine.

I've had no problem with the flex and its forced counter clockwise motion. It's for some people and isnt for others. I dont think that makes it a bad machine because you did not like it.

Finally, the flex has the option to buy a 4" backing plate and attach a 5" pad to get into smaller areas. I dont think there is an option for that with the rupes 21. Instead you have to buy a whole other machine.

I dont think there are definitive studies or tests to show that the rupes is in a whole other league that the flex. Seems its more like personal opinion at best. You can find people pro flex or pro rupes. If you have links I'd love to read them!

How much pressure (lbs) were you exerting on the Rupes? It came to a dead stop? Then either the machine is not performing properly or its user error. I have a few thousand hours on the Rupes and that's never happened.

I never said the FLEX was a bad machine. I don't prefer it. Is it a capable machine? Yes.

You can run a smaller plate on the 21. You don't need to buy the 15 to run a 5" pad.

Take a few minutes to talk to Kevin Brown if you don't believe me that the Rupes is in another league.




Definition of opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge

My statement comes from thousands of hours of real testing and use. My statement is not opinion.

 

[GoFastZ]

I was done but you got me troll. Post count doesn't amount to knowledge but you with a hearty 3 posts coming on here claiming you DO know your stuff plus have been to concours d'elegance car shows is a total laugher. You ask for pics to prove but you expect us to believe you without proof of shite?

Good work troll. You got me I admit it lol.

Another classy response Someone comes in with legitimate knowledge and experience....then gets labeled a troll by someone with a bad attitude. :shrug:

BTW, I'm well known on many forums...but since you doubt....pics incoming. Let's see your EXPERTISE.

 

[Adower]

How much pressure (lbs) were you exerting on the Rupes? It came to a dead stop? Then either the machine is not performing properly or its user error. I have a few thousand hours on the Rupes and that's never happened.

I never said the FLEX was a bad machine. I don't prefer it. Is it a capable machine? Yes.

You can run a smaller plate on the 21. You don't need to buy the 15 to run a 5" pad.

Take a few minutes to talk to Kevin Brown if you don't believe me that the Rupes is in another league.




Definition of opinion: a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge

My statement comes from thousands of hours of real testing and use. My statement is not opinion.

I wasnt putting a lot of pressure on the machine. Less than 15 lbs for sure. I wasnt doing any correction with it. Just moving to the curved panel from a flat panel. Could it have been user error? Of course, but maybe not.

While I respect your views I dont find validity without numbers or some kind of data. For example, your c5 vs c7 analogy, there is actual data that shows the c7 is better in performance.

If you have any links or tests on the rupes actually correcting better than the flex I would love to read them. I am in to detailing and like reading about it.

I would expect Kevin Brown to back the rupes. After all he is the first person to bring them into the US, he sells them and not the FLEX.

This isnt a personal jab at you but that is just how I view everything when making decisions.

 

[GoFastZ]

I wasnt putting a lot of pressure on the machine. Less than 15 lbs for sure. I wasnt doing any correction with it. Just moving to the curved panel from a flat panel. Could it have been user error? Of course, but maybe not.

While I respect your views I dont find validity without numbers or some kind of data. For example, your c5 vs c7 analogy, there is actual data that shows the c7 is better in performance.

If you have any links or tests on the rupes actually correcting better than the flex I would love to read them. I am in to detailing and like reading about it.

This isnt a personal jab at you but that is just how I view everything when making decisions.

Anything over 5lbs is a lot of pressure....anywhere near 15...no wonder it stopped.

Yes physical data logged on a graph will tell you a C7 is better than a C5. But drive both and tell me you won't believe it until you see a graph that proves it....

The person you should talk to is Kevin Brown....he has more data on this machine than anyone in the country and would enjoy speaking with you. I can give you his number if you like.

 

[GoFastZ]

I was done but you got me troll. Post count doesn't amount to knowledge but you with a hearty 3 posts coming on here claiming you DO know your stuff plus have been to concours d'elegance car shows is a total laugher. You ask for pics to prove but you expect us to believe you without proof of shite?

Good work troll. You got me I admit it lol.

Ok, since I'm new here, these are places I'm well known....

NorcalLSX – 8,337
LS1tech – 3,291 (plus started a successful 122 page thread for giving help in detailing where people could ask a pro questions)
CorvetteForum – 1,162
Bay Area Riders Forum – 1,430
Luxury4Play - 473
Autopia.org – 1,385
Autogeek - 651
Detailing Bliss - 378
AutopiaForums – 915

And most of these sites I’ve been a member for 5+ years. Some 10+.






As for pics.... since you asked SO kindly.






These are in Carmel during the Concours this year. A few of my clients drove in and asked if I could give their cars a very quick cleanup, so I did. Not a detail (as they all needed it), but you gonna say no to an F40?

Oh yeah.....I've totally never been to Concours or the Quail either....... oh wait...

And here is just a handful from SEMA this year.....

 

[AWDLS2]

GoFast definitely knows what he's talking about, I'd go off what he says about the Flex vs Rupes. But maybe if you want to know more about the Flex vs Rupes start a thread on Autopia or another big detailing forum see what others big in paint correction have to say.

 

[Chewy]

The Rupes is far better than the FLEX. FLEX sales are dropping, Rupes are skyrocketing, and people with FLEXs are getting bottom dollar when selling them because not many want them.

I agree 100000000000% I don't know of a single well known detailer that uses a Flex (and admits it ;-)) People who know use Rupes. :coolman:

As a professional with over a decade of experience and extensive knowledge and use of every available machine and I can say definitively that the Rupes is a better machine. All of this is based on fact and experience.

I can personally vouch for GoFastZ (Jeff). He's one of the elite paint correctionists in the country/world and his work & reputation speaks for itself. There are people that think they know to correct paint.....and then there's Jeff. :idea:

 

[Grabber]

Heard a lot of good things about Rupes, but, ANYONE that says the Flex is junk or sucks is an idiot. I really don't care how famous of a detailer or paint correction engineer/expert you are. The Flex is a great machine for the money spent on one. Not the best, but, definitely not the worse.

I also feel there is more to technique than the technology itself. I've done corrections with a PC and compared them to people that have way better machines and my work came out better. It's about passion, preparation, the amount of time you are able to spend on a car, your attention to detail, the climate, product use, etc.

The work above by Jeff looks good, however, I only question the fact of the original condition of all of those high end cars. I once spent nearly 30 hours (with a friend that knows his way about paint correction well) on a 1989 Porsche 911 that was beyond messed up. He had scratches you could feel with your finger in the paint, extremely faded vinyl, filthy interior, etc. and we turned it into a show-room quality car. It took 8 or 9 total washes to get it clean prior to us wetsanding and correcting the paint.

We used the Flex which did a great job on cutting the time down, but, we know how to use the Flex pretty well and have decent product. To me, it is easier to correct a car that needs light correction. Anyone can wash/clay/polish up a car with minor scratches, slap some sealant/wax on and make it shine, especially on what is probably an already garaged car. Not hinting or saying anything, but, just joining the site and bragging about your detailing skills and call it a fact is a little arrogant. Also, advertising when you don't pay for sponsorship is shitty too!

Of course Flex sales are dropping, so are PC, Griots Orbitals, etc. Whenever a new technology comes out people tend to jump on the bandwagon and get the latest and greatest. That is a retarded statement and it really holds little value IMHO.

That is like saying that 05-09 Mustangs are tanking because of the 2011-2014 Mustangs. Clearly, they would! Old vs. New is a crapshoot and not a good comparison. The Flex has been out for a while, and the Rupes is still somewhat new.

Great work, and amazing cars!

OP - I could not read through all of the bickering of AWD trying to state his opinion as factual and the others chiming in, but, did you get a flex or a Rupes, PC, etc? If so, have you had a chance to use it?

 

[GoFastZ]

Heard a lot of good things about Rupes, but, ANYONE that says the Flex is junk or sucks is an idiot. I really don't care how famous of a detailer or paint correction engineer/expert you are. The Flex is a great machine for the money spent on one. Not the best, but, definitely not the worse.

I also feel there is more to technique than the technology itself. I've done corrections with a PC and compared them to people that have way better machines and my work came out better. It's about passion, preparation, the amount of time you are able to spend on a car, your attention to detail, the climate, product use, etc.

The work above by Jeff looks good, however, I only question the fact of the original condition of all of those high end cars. I once spent nearly 30 hours (with a friend that knows his way about paint correction well) on a 1989 Porsche 911 that was beyond messed up. He had scratches you could feel with your finger in the paint, extremely faded vinyl, filthy interior, etc. and we turned it into a show-room quality car. It took 8 or 9 total washes to get it clean prior to us wetsanding and correcting the paint.

We used the Flex which did a great job on cutting the time down, but, we know how to use the Flex pretty well and have decent product. To me, it is easier to correct a car that needs light correction. Anyone can wash/clay/polish up a car with minor scratches, slap some sealant/wax on and make it shine, especially on what is probably an already garaged car. Not hinting or saying anything, but, just joining the site and bragging about your detailing skills and call it a fact is a little arrogant. Also, advertising when you don't pay for sponsorship is shitty too!

Of course Flex sales are dropping, so are PC, Griots Orbitals, etc. Whenever a new technology comes out people tend to jump on the bandwagon and get the latest and greatest. That is a retarded statement and it really holds little value IMHO.

That is like saying that 05-09 Mustangs are tanking because of the 2011-2014 Mustangs. Clearly, they would! Old vs. New is a crapshoot and not a good comparison. The Flex has been out for a while, and the Rupes is still somewhat new.

Great work, and amazing cars!

OP - I could not read through all of the bickering of AWD trying to state his opinion as factual and the others chiming in, but, did you get a flex or a Rupes, PC, etc? If so, have you had a chance to use it?

I agree with you! You won't find me ever saying the FLEX is garbage or a bad machine.

I sincerely hope you don't judge me based off a couple pics of cars I did a quick cleanup on....as it certainly is not a presentation of my work. I was called out as trolling and lying so I showed the person in question they were wrong. In regards to what you said about their previous condition......They ALL needed extensive corrective work. Only the 458 looked decent. The F40 needed a good 50-100hrs of corrective work.

I didn't come here to brag about my skills....I came here after a friend sent me the link (also lurked here for a year or so) and asked if I could shed some light on the dispute as a professional. I had a premise that the Rupes is a superior machine. Theory put into practice with repetition in a controlled experiment many times over and getting consistent results I'd say is quite strong proof. I would hardly call voicing my experience based off thousands of hours on hundreds of cars opinion and arrogant.

Also please tell me WHAT advertising I'm doing? I haven't listed any of my info, name, place, region, site, phone number, email, or any way to contact me, ask for work, or anything of the sort. I am a sponsor on several sites and I flag people who come in and post full writeups of their work without being sponsors and they get their posts taken down. I pay and they don't. Simple as that. I have not posted writeups of my work here. I would be curious what a regional specific sponsorship would cost though. I believe I've played within the rules.

 

[hoamskilet]

Well this thead went sour lol

 

[Chewy]

Heard a lot of good things about Rupes, but, ANYONE that says the Flex is junk or sucks is an idiot.

Who said the Flex is junk? I think its a well built solid machine. I just think the Rupes does a better job. Can't compare 21mm of throw.

 

[Grabber]

I agree with you! You won't find me ever saying the FLEX is garbage or a bad machine.

I sincerely hope you don't judge me based off a couple pics of cars I did a quick cleanup on....as it certainly is not a presentation of my work. I was called out as trolling and lying so I showed the person in question they were wrong. In regards to what you said about their previous condition......They ALL needed extensive corrective work. Only the 458 looked decent. The F40 needed a good 50-100hrs of corrective work.

I didn't come here to brag about my skills....I came here after a friend sent me the link (also lurked here for a year or so) and asked if I could shed some light on the dispute as a professional. I had a premise that the Rupes is a superior machine. Theory put into practice with repetition in a controlled experiment many times over and getting consistent results I'd say is quite strong proof. I would hardly call voicing my experience based off thousands of hours on hundreds of cars opinion and arrogant.

Also please tell me WHAT advertising I'm doing? I haven't listed any of my info, name, place, region, site, phone number, email, or any way to contact me, ask for work, or anything of the sort. I am a sponsor on several sites and I flag people who come in and post full writeups of their work without being sponsors and they get their posts taken down. I pay and they don't. Simple as that. I have not posted writeups of my work here. I would be curious what a regional specific sponsorship would cost though. I believe I've played within the rules.

Thank you for your response.

I'd like to first start off by saying the work you do is impressive. All of the cars are immaculate. I never passed judgement, I just provide a perspective from a 3rd party. Most exotics and higher end cars are typically well taken care of. Some are abused. A car driven daily in winter, spring, summer and fall and have a lot of miles are harder to keep clean.

I should have explained what I meant about advertising. You did not. The guy that vouched for you had a thing in his signature that was removed for un-pain advertising of services or something thereof.

My post was against several people here that were forcing their opinion as being factual and not geared directly at you.

I have no issue with your post, and now that you've responded you seem very laid back and humble, which I respect.

There are a lot of cocky guys in the detailing section that worked on a few cars or read reviews online or heard from a friend about certain things working certain ways, etc. I don't brag or talk about my detailing as it is PURELY a once and a great while thing I do, but, I take extreme pride in what I do and stand by my work and opinions.

My hat is off to you.

:beer:

 

[AWDLS2]

You can see it as my opinion but when the majority believe that one is better than another you should start to figure it's for a reason. That's why I said for the guy who disagreed to do some research so he's not just hearing it from me but from others as well their opinions on the matter, but I guess winning car show awards means you don't need to I guess. I did however say to the op if he was willing to spend the money he should buy the Rupes but clearly if he doesn't want to the griots, HD polisher, and PC can do good in their own right of course.

The higher end and exotic cars I'd lean more towards being just as bad because they are usually always wiped down and the owners don't want to take the time to do proper maintenance like a 2bucket wash etc.

 

[Adower]

You can see it as my opinion but when the majority believe that one is better than another you should start to figure it's for a reason. That's why I said for the guy who disagreed to do some research so he's not just hearing it from me but from others as well their opinions on the matter, but I guess winning car show awards means you don't need to I guess. I did however say to the op if he was willing to spend the money he should buy the Rupes but clearly if he doesn't want to the griots, HD polisher, and PC can do good in their own right of course.

The higher end and exotic cars I'd lean more towards being just as bad because they are usually always wiped down and the owners don't want to take the time to do proper maintenance like a 2bucket wash etc.

Hah, shoot if I had money to buy an exotic Id pay someone else to wash it too :banana: