How important is this really? None of our factory motors are, the terminator motors aren't, and I'm pretty sure even FRPP's line of aluminator motors aren't. The terminator and aluminator shortblocks claim to be able to handle some serious power. Why when rebuilding an engine is it "required" but no one bats an eye when a new engine isn't machined this way?
honing with a deck plate
- Thread starter po-po 5.0
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The simple answer.. A new engine hasn't been subjected to wear and tear, or the heat cycles that will change the shape of each cylinder.
this may not have much effect on how much power an engine can handle, but I can guarantee that it has a big effect on how well the rings seal. If you want oblong cylinders when your heads are bolted on, thats your business, but you'll be losing power to blowby, and thats essentially free power.
I would guess that it's much more important with an aluminum block then with a steel block.
Not sure about what the aluminum block uses for piston to wall clearance but the iron block is .001"
At that clearance even a slight distortion of the roundness of the cylinder would result in scuffing the pistons. After 15,000 miles on my 04 engine the Teflon coating on all 8 factory piston showed absolutely no signs of scuffing. Not even a single scratch mark. Knowing the tight piston clearance I am sure the engineers put some time into minimizing block distortion when bolting the heads down. FEA tools can readily identify how the metal will behave when loads are applied in a computer model.
Not saying a torque plate isn't a good idea but the difference may not be quite as dramatic as your post indicates. Given the choice I would pay the extra dough to have a torque plate used when boring the cylinders (don't forget to torque the main caps as well). But I wouldn't loose sleep over not using one either.
as noted by elyrain, the aluminum block will distort way more than an iron block when the heads are bolted on.
While its not a HUGE difference, if you are paying $3k for a forged motor, may as well optimize the combination.
While its not a HUGE difference, if you are paying $3k for a forged motor, may as well optimize the combination.
but an overbore in general takes care of that. The point of a torque plate is to simulate the disortion caused specifically by a cylinder head.
The cost difernce is not worth the ramifications.
On the Aluminum block is a MUST have and Ill recomend 100% on any quality build.
Naz
On the Aluminum block is a MUST have and Ill recomend 100% on any quality build.
Naz
so basically what you're saying is that FRPP's line of aluminator motors is junk?
Where in my statement did I say that? Because I dont see it.
I dont know the exact proccess that Ford utilizes but Im sure they use the sickes most up-to-day machining proccess as outlined in this link.
Ford Cammer Build
And as you can see on this pick, the tech is utilizing a Torque Plate to check the bores:
Naz
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Everything I've read says that the aluminators were assembled just like a run-of-the-mill terminator short block :shrug:
EDIT: reading the article, the cylinder are bored without a deck plate, but a plate is used to check trueness. I don't know if thats "good enough" :shrug:
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I'm aware of what a torque plate is used for, and you basically answered your own question with the definition of what its used for. Did you call Ford Racing specifically and ask them if they use the torque plate on all of their engine builds? I'm willing to bet they do.. I know I won't do one without it.
This is the reason for using it while doing the machining proces. If you want to skip it and take the chance you can certainly do it, but don't cry if you have poor compression or you spin a rod bearing due to a f@#$ up cylinder(I've personally seen both happen because of it).
You do realize that the stock engines in our cobras AREN'T honed with a deck plate right? Nor are the terminators or lightnings?
The terminators and L's both use Iron blocks.
Certainly there is a difference between a new aluminum block, and a used aluminum block no? I'll bet if you compared a cross section of new ford aluminum blocks to say 93-95 teksids, you may find the truness of the earlier pieces is not up to as they say spec?:dw:
How much are you saving by not utilizing torque plates? I tell you that is not even 100 bones.
NOT WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!
NOT WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!
but if bolting on a cylinder head distorts the block......which is why they're honed with a deck plate....even brand new motors will have bore distortion when assembled.
you tell me: FRPP apparently ISN'T using them when building the aluminator motors, yet I've seen nothing bad said about them yet. Thats what I'm trying to figure out: why are people buying aluminators if their machining/assembly is inferior (and yet more expensive) than MMR or MP?
First off, where are you getting that Ford or FRPP does not utilizes TQ plates on the machine proccess? Have you personally talked to a Ford engnieer or assembly line operator?
As you clearly see...the tech below is utilizing a TQ plate when doing his quality control. That tells me, that when they machine, they utilize a TQ plate.
as you can see on this pic, the tech is utilizing a Torque Plate to check the bores:
Naz
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